Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #16 *ARREST*

[Marulinka]

Hello! I have been reading along but have not posted in a bit. The thing that sticks out to me and makes me inclined to think PR definitely could have moved from perv to murder is the eye contact. He maintained eye contact with a victim while watching her having intercourse with her boyfriend and wanking. He was not afraid of being found, being pummeled by the boyfriend. He watched and followed the two girls to their home and continued his wanking on their door. IMO his crimes were escalating and he was ready and willing to take the next step. He enjoyed seeing the fear in their eyes. MOO IMO

Yes thats it. You are so right to highlight the significance of eye contact. I agree that it sets him apart from the average 'wanking voyerist'. When they mentioned the eye contact at the trial for first time my instinct told me that it was a very sinister behaviour. I believe this guy has a very very dark side to him and its not 'just' voyerism.
MOO of course.

 

[Marulinka]

Looking back on that, it's interesting to note he escalated from breaking in to steal the underwear - to violent assault in just 2 years. As soon as he started physical assaults it escalated to rape and murder in just a few weeks. Breaking into houses to scare victims and then returning to do it again, reminds me of Pawel the perv!

Yes he definitely escalated very fast but in hindsight he exhibited quite odd behaviour since his young age. Like pranking his fellow students by breaking into their rooms and waiting for them sometimes for hours just to surprise them as s prank....makes me wonder about what sort of history does PR have in terms of odd weird tendencies in childhood/adolescence that we might not know of?

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Yes he definitely escalated very fast but in hindsight he exhibited quite odd behaviour since his young age. Like pranking his fellow students by breaking into their rooms and waiting for them sometimes for hours just to surprise them as s prank....makes me wonder about what sort of history does PR have in terms of odd weird tendencies in childhood/adolescence that we might not know of?

I missed the bit about PR breaking into his friends rooms and waiting? I can only imagine what he may have done while waiting!
I 100% agree with you regarding a dark side. When I read about PR maintaining eye contact I felt so uneasy and my first thought was this guy could very well become a serial rapist/murderer. MOO! IMO!

 

[Marulinka]

@ChiCubs2016 to prevent confusion please let me clarify. In my previous post I was comparing PRs case to another case or Russel Williams in Canada. PR did not break into his college friends rooms it happened i the other case. I was just pointing out similarities and how the case escalated quite fast.

 

[Winterbells]

This is a journo on Hull Live. You might want to look at this thread from Aug 17 on case.

angus young (@angus_young61) tweeted at 6:29 pm on Sat, Aug 17, 2019:
Here’s a handy map. You might spot that one offence has no reference to a street. It wasn’t given in court. However, there’s a good chance it was within the 0.2 mile zone. angus young on Twitter
(angus young on Twitter)

Interesting also that he says all of the crimes PR was charged with were reported at the time, not after Libby's disappearance.

 

[Newthoughts]

This is a journo on Hull Live. You might want to look at this thread from Aug 17 on case.

angus young (@angus_young61) tweeted at 6:29 pm on Sat, Aug 17, 2019:
Here’s a handy map. You might spot that one offence has no reference to a street. It wasn’t given in court. However, there’s a good chance it was within the 0.2 mile zone. angus young on Twitter
(angus young on Twitter)

Looking at that doesn't even begin to convey just how tiny the area is. After visiting my child and walking around I posted on here that it took literally minutes from Libby's bench to his street via about 90% of his charge street. It'd be even less from Libby's bench in the opposite direction to her house - if that. My first thought was actually 'lazy git'. He barely had to move.

My other thought was how good a spot spidercam was for waiting. It's a dead end that I was told was a student cut through. Cottingham road one side. Beverly road the other. You don't save time by using it as it's a bit of a dogs leg but I guess it's first turning that joins the two in either direction. And it's dark. You wouldn't necessarily think spidercam was there.

You get from student houses, bus stops and shops one side to the university, student pubs, yet more student housing and Newlands Avenue on the other


What upset me was that tiny area was home to a busy street - Newlands Avenue - used by students. Two student pubs, a club, cafes, Lidl and the uni. Almost at the end of his street on Newlands was a Polish shop. Lots of little local businesses.

They must have had his description and a efit. Had it been circulated and stuck up in those places surely it have made it harder to get Libby to go with him without screaming? I'm sure his neighbours and shopkeepers could have identified him. As wouldn't have been a very long walk at all.

I do blame police cuts and lack of resources but a simple efit could have made all the difference

 

[Newthoughts]

Hello! I have been reading along but have not posted in a bit. The thing that sticks out to me and makes me inclined to think PR definitely could have moved from perv to murder is the eye contact. He maintained eye contact with a victim while watching her having intercourse with her boyfriend and wanking. He was not afraid of being found, being pummeled by the boyfriend. He watched and followed the two girls to their home and continued his wanking on their door. IMO his crimes were escalating and he was ready and willing to take the next step. He enjoyed seeing the fear in their eyes. MOO IMO

I agree with you 100%. The eye contact and the following and what looks to me like forethought. This doesn't sound like some lonely guy having a cheeky peek.

Interesting also that he says all of the crimes PR was charged with were reported at the time, not after Libby's disappearance.

To get the evidence they had I'd guess so. Which makes me wonder if any were reported afterwards which couldn't go to court because of lack of evidence?

I now wonder if it's possible more serious crimes were reported but didn't reach the level of proof required for charges?

 

[Newthoughts]

All along I said she ran in the dark to get away, ended up in the cold water, hence the shrieks heard alongside feeling freaky things in the water in the dark. I said all along I thought he was implicated but that it was a set of unfortunate circumstances after she ran off IMO. JMO

From the videos that were shown here of the park ( @Strontium69 I think) and the river (a slight upward bank), plus the conditions (freezing ground, dark, uneven), plus her state and his strength - I don't think it's likely she ran into the river. Add in the fact it's tidal and meanders - she'd have been found. JMO but I don't think she fell in accidentally.

 

[JosieJo]

To play devils advocate here regards her going into the river..I'm open minded based on what we know regards how she ended up there ...its very very likely imo she entered the river from the park (no other crime scenes we know of and screams were heard around pond / river area

So if its deemed difficult to run up there if frightened ..how is it any less difficult if
Was forced up there
Was dragged up to it
Was killed and carried up there

 

[JosieJo]

This is the area I mean ( obviously it doesn't take into account the weather conditions and the slope )

 

[JosieJo]

Here also once up to the opening to the river area (by herself or if forced but got away) it would be very dangerous to navigate if running and intoxicated in the icey conditions

 

[ChiCubs2016]

@ChiCubs2016 to prevent confusion please let me clarify. In my previous post I was comparing PRs case to another case or Russel Williams in Canada. PR did not break into his college friends rooms it happened i the other case. I was just pointing out similarities and how the case escalated quite fast.

Thank you! That make sense now!! Sorry for the confusion!! @Marulinka

 

[Newthoughts]

To play devils advocate here regards her going into the river..I'm open minded based on what we know regards how she ended up there ...its very very likely imo she entered the river from the park (no other crime scenes we know of and screams were heard around pond / river area

So if its deemed difficult to run up there if frightened ..how is it any less difficult if
Was forced up there
Was dragged up to it
Was killed and carried up there

I'm also open minded but my opinion in the given circumstances at that crime scene - easier to force or drag. Or carry.


PR is stocky, male, fired up with adrenaline and has shown a level of control and lack of concern before. Libby would be extremely vulnerable, cold, terrified and in shock and slim.

If the river had been straight with easy access paths beside it, steep banks down to it making it as deep at the point of entry as the middle and the fall more preciptous maybe my opinion would be more split between the options.

But this is tidal so depth would be variable both when a person fell in and in the days afterwards. It would take effort to get to it. It meanders - so places to get caught at the sides. I believe people have said it would involve running up a bank. I would have thought ensuring something was closer to the centre of the river would be better.

Wouldn't a less preciptous fall be more of an initial slide gathering momentum leaving traces where vegetation is crushed, even when frozen?

But I'm not a river expert so that is just uninformed opinion.

We had a student tragically drown near here last September. But it was a straight fast, flowing river in the Midlands (not tidal), access concrete paths beside it and a sharp drop into it. Current and depth were equal at the sides and the middle. The fall would have been sharp. He was found two weeks later close to where he was last seen. Libby wasn't.

I can't rule anything out but I think falling in and disappearing would be hard.

That said, whilst I think the park was a crime scene I'm not 100 % on board with it being where she entered the water anyway. It was searched too well.

 

[Newthoughts]

Here also once up to the opening to the river area (by herself or if forced but got away) it would be very dangerous to navigate if running and intoxicated in the icey conditions

More likely here I'd agree. But the ground is still uneven and she still had to get away from him

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Again i tend to agree with @Newthoughts. It seems unlikely for me to be able to 'fall' as such into the river even in drink and running terrified. Running up the bank would slow you and i imagine if that was the scenario ones senses would be hightened despite the alcohol. Its not a drop particularly into the river more a slope and the river is shallower at the edges because of the silt/mud banks. There is iron edging along the side from just beyond the park all the way down to the Humber (that the environment agency are crrently improving) that turns it into a very different river where i believe that MAY be more likely.

What happened in the park is probably the part i struggle with the most in terms of piecing a 'logical' sequence of events. That said in my mind (from the police activities) Libby entered that park with PR and never left there again. I also believe he was directly responsible for whatever took place. All MOO.

 

[Plod]

Again i tend to agree with @Newthoughts. It seems unlikely for me to be able to 'fall' as such into the river even in drink and running terrified. Running up the bank would slow you and i imagine if that was the scenario ones senses would be hightened despite the alcohol. Its not a drop particularly into the river more a slope and the river is shallower at the edges because of the silt/mud banks. There is iron edging along the side from just beyond the park all the way down to the Humber (that the environment agency are crrently improving) that turns it into a very different river where i believe that MAY be more likely.

What happened in the park is probably the part i struggle with the most in terms of piecing a 'logical' sequence of events. That said in my mind (from the police activities) Libby entered that park with PR and never left there again. I also believe he was directly responsible for whatever took place. All MOO.

Agree with all you say, and other Hull locals have also made the same observations.

I was reading today the national press’s take on his plea and sentence - he obviously is a sexual predator.
No mention of LS in any of the reports - I wonder if this is the court’s order.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Anything is possible this is just one possibility...but we have no idea if he was driving from home so could easily have driven past her

I wonder if his wife was questioned as to his whereabouts that night or whether his mum and sister were contacted by the police to give an official statement. Not sure I recall anything said about anyone helping with enquiries. Not even sure if they would do this

 

[Mommysleuth11]

I wonder if his wife was questioned as to his whereabouts that night or whether his mum and sister were contacted by the police to give an official statement. Not sure I recall anything said about anyone helping with enquiries. Not even sure if they would do this

You would presume wife would/could be a key witness. The wider family i think would depend if he had given them an account directly or for example his wife had told them. I cant recall the exact case but believe i have heard of LE going abroad to question potential witnesses in a serious crime. However as ive said before locally this police force have long since had, not the greatest reputation. Although things have recently shown an improvement, i think some of the court stuff coupled with "the grapevine" which incidentally tallies quite well, are at best mildly concerning.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Yes he definitely escalated very fast but in hindsight he exhibited quite odd behaviour since his young age. Like pranking his fellow students by breaking into their rooms and waiting for them sometimes for hours just to surprise them as s prank....makes me wonder about what sort of history does PR have in terms of odd weird tendencies in childhood/adolescence that we might not know of?

Yes, I saw that 2nd documentary about him pranking his friends by breaking in and hiding for a long time in the cupboard. There is obviously something inherent in him to do this. He must have got kicks and a natural high out of doing this.

Since watching these docs I'm starting to realise how PR could have potentially escalated his heinous crimes.

 

[JerseyGirl]

This thread has reached it's limit. I have set up a new thread and will be moving those over from today and closing this soon. Please continue here:

Found Deceased - UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #17 *ARREST*