UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[Skigh]

I agree with you, I wonder if there will be any other charges relating to other woman once this trial is over?

It will be interesting to see what comes out after the trial ends.Not long to wait.

 

[Jarvis1969]

I’ve had an awful thought that maybe she blacked out/fell asleep in the car on the way to Oak Road. I believe he mentions her being on her knees at one point and her laying on the grass before the ‘consensual’ sex/rape. Maybe this part of his account is true and this happened either by the car when he’s tried to get her out when they’ve arrived at Oak Road or maybe he’s carried her into the park. I’m still undecided about where I think she was attacked (the bench visited by forensics is still in my mind) But I have wondered if she may only have woken during the sexual assault and this is when she’s scratched out at him and screamed for help.
I had also wondered if there’s is further cctv from Oak road that hasn’t been publicly released as I’ve read some reports of cctv showing them both leaving the car but only PR returning but on the clips that we’ve seen there’s only flashing lights as the car’s been locked/unlocked.
If there is further cctv it would clear up any doubts about LS conscious state when they arrived at Oak Road and if she was able to walk from the car unaided. I think we’ll only find out a lot of information after the trial has ended and also that some cctv may never be released upon her families request.
All MOO

Agree Libby's apparent total silence exiting the car needs an explanation. Oak Road at Beresford Ave is so close to the Claremont Ave houses, yet nobody hears anything til the screaming by the pond. Before Libby enters PR's car she is vocal, crying, screaming and shouting, according to numerous witnesses. I guess the four options are - she is silent exiting the car because she doesn't feel threatened (unlikely, as you'd still expect some loud drunken conversation), because he was threatening her eg a knife to the throat, because she was unconscious, or because she was gagged. The other option - she was dead - I discount because of the subsequent screams.

I also wonder whether more footage exists actually showing figures with the car at the playing fields. How can they prove PR left alone if all they can see is headlights? Is it based purely on his arrival at Raglan St, or did the jury see additional footage?

One Q I have and it's such a basic one at this stage, I feel embarrassed asking, but are we all assuming PR drove into the car park? The trial only seems to report him arriving at the playing fields. During the search for Libby, a police car parked across the entrance, to prevent cars getting in, which made me think it must be ungated. Also I'm not sure the yeast factory CCTV could have picked up the car's lights unless he'd gone into the car park, although I'm not 100% sure.

Google Maps[/QUOTE]

I did wonder too if she had fallen asleep in the car

 

[Cherwell]

Going back to the HDM live updates as copied in by janjim, there's no mention of "tight", but it's unclear whether it's a full verbatim account.

Mr Alford says he was looking out of the window for “three or four minutes” before he saw a “male walking off the park.”
He said: “He was walking in a manner where he wasn’t looking behind, asserting where he wanted to go, like he wanted to get off the park.
“When I first saw him, he was walking off the park with his head straight forward and moving with an urgency and then he left.”
Mr Alford gave his statement to police on February 4.
He says the man was wearing either “fitted dark coloured joggers” or “cuffed jeans” and a “bomber style jacket.”
UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

 

[Vermont24]

A couple more quick thoughts:

The 'green shed' mentioned by PR in his testimony is indeed green, but would you really be able to tell that in the dark? It's a dark green, and could register as another colour in low light. Is he simply reacting to what has been presented in court?

Secondly, for all of my efforts, I really can't see anyone leaving/arriving in the CCTV footage from the rear of Claremont Avenue. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. However, and perhaps I'm just being pedantic here, reporting from court has always referred to footage in the plural - taken from the rear of houses on Claremont Avenue. There could be footage which has been shown in court, but not released to the public, perhaps from the camera at the property I previously posted about on the corner of Claremont and Beresford. This could possibly capture the occupants of a vehicle, giving a much better idea of comings and goings on Oak Road.

 

[Jarvis1969]

You say PR didn't know, but sometimes neither do supposed victims of rape. I mentor on a chat forum and it's desperate how many young women post on there who, from their stories, know what happened, but don't understand consent and that they have been raped, and are asking is that what happened to them.

That’s dreadful, poor girls

 

[Cherwell]

Please everyone be careful when quoting another post, as some posts are appearing with broken quotes.
This happens when part of the quote code is accidentally deleted, even just deleting a bracket will do it.
The quoted post should start with [ QUOTE ] and end with [ /QUOTE ]
(I've left some spaces to avoid that posting as a quote itself! There should be no spaces)
If your post looks wrong, go into edit mode and replace any part of the quote code that's been deleted.

 

[tedtink]

The 'green shed' mentioned by PR in his testimony is indeed green, but would you really be able to tell that in the dark? It's a dark green, and could register as another colour in low light. Is he simply reacting to what has been presented in court?

Did he not say he'd taken his kids to the park in the past?

 

[Vermont24]

Did he not say he'd taken his kids to the park in the past?

Yeah, no doubt about that. I'm just looking for holes where perhaps there aren't any.

 

[Cherwell]

Did he not say he'd taken his kids to the park in the past?

Yes, but in the daytime he would presumably have driven into the car park. There'd be no reason to walk along Oak Road to where the shed is.

 

[Skigh]

Did he not say he'd taken his kids to the park in the past?

He had been there flying his drone. I wonder if he took his children for a walk in the park on February 2nd.

 

[Zazie]

Please everyone be careful when quoting another post, as some posts are appearing with broken quotes.
This happens when part of the quote code is accidentally deleted, even just deleting a bracket will do it.
The quoted post should start with [ QUOTE ] and end with [ /QUOTE ]
(I've left some spaces to avoid that posting as a quote itself! There should be no spaces)
If your post looks wrong, go into edit mode and replace any part of the quote code that's been deleted.

Apologies, I think I was responsible for that, then I infected Jarvis1969's post. Thanks for the head's up!

 

[Jarvis1969]

Apologies, I think I was responsible for that, then I infected Jarvis1969's post. Thanks for the head's up!

Sorry

 

[Dotta]

It will be interesting to see what comes out after the trial ends.Not long to wait.

But this case has been in the news for nearly 2 years now. Surely if there were more rape victims of PR they would have contacted the police by now.

 

[Steve2021]

Sooty said..."Like I say, I don’t envy the jury, but I think they will want to find him guilty as there is a young woman who is dead and that is the most terrible thing."

True, but as much as they and we want someone to be held to account for her death, if PW didn't do it we most definitely want whoever did to be found.

Very likely the police know full well that either the man Mr Alford saw is PW, or if he's not, that he is unconnected to Libby's death. Should PW be found not guilty I don't doubt for a minute they will come out with a statement that they are not looking for anyone else in connection with her death, which kind of says it all in my book. Likewise I won't be at all surprised if he's convicted of either offence a ton of other stuff comes out that would suggest the verdict to be correct.

 

[Skigh]

But this case has been in the news for nearly 2 years now. Surely if there were more rape victims of PR they would have contacted the police by now.

I have no legal knowledge,but I think any cases reported after his arrest would be kept quiet so they did not prejudice his trial.

 

[Dotta]

I have no legal knowledge,but I think any cases reported after his arrest would be kept quiet so they did not prejudice his trial.

I see. Thanks.

 

[Steve2021]

Screaming doesn't necessarily indicate attack, it's distress. Libby could have been screaming for someone to help her, severely disorientated and hampered by numb feet in the snow.

True. Could she be screaming from the water? If PW had said they'd been in the park then the defence could suggest after he left she'd accidentally fallen in. Well they could still suggest that but surely it's unbelievable she'd have found her way there at all, let alone in the short time window available. So PW's only hope in my book is the jury believing someone else may well have killed her.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Just throwing it out there we all assume rape followed by murder but with this sicko could the events have happened the other way around murder then sex with a dead body? A horrible thought but wouldn’t put it past PR to do this IMO

I have been going back and forth with this. Glad you were brave and threw it out here. MOO

 

[Steve2021]

Probably mistakenly by me. I thought SA said "light". I must have confused it with another description. He doesn't appear to have said "tight" though.

On another note, do some posters realise they are referring to the defendant as PW? His initials are PR.
Or is it an in-joke and it stands for Polish ******?
ETA .... or even public wank(er)

Apologies I think I've been calling him PW...I don't know why but I'll be careful not to again.

 

[Tortoise]

DBM