Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #17

[Firstsnow4]

That is where I am stuck too.

Note - the following is based on the point of entry being located near the bench and where the harness was found.

If we take various experts reports, the body would have sunk pretty much in the area where it entered the water. But, that scenario presumes immediate drowning and the body sinking.

The only way I can make it work is if N was knocked unconscious (there was mention of rocks near the point of entry) and somehow landed on her back. As she was still breathing, she would have floated for a while, and may have made it over the weir. I seem to recall that the tide was going out at that time? I am not sure whether this is a viable scenario.

The alternative is that there is a 'deep hole' near the point of entry and she sunk into it, only to surface and make her way over the weir as the body de-composed.

If she went into the river after the weir, the river is tidal so the body will move more readily with the currents produced by the tides.

Thanks - I did consider the deep hole scenario too. The only thing I cannot understand is if she had resurfaced at any point in the 24 days, how has no one seen her body floating down the river. The only scenario I can see is that she was moved along the riverbed until she finally resurfaced on the Sunday. But that then doesn’t account for going over the weir. Her body surely would have got stuck. IMO. Just wondering if it was past the weir where she went in - it would point more to suicide sadly. I hope it wasn’t. I hope it was an accident. I know time of death will maybe help ascertain where she entered.

 

[x44]

This is news to me ! What could MWT and the media have had to release?

Here is one possibility
The press had found out from neighbours and others back where they live EXACTLY what was going on with that 10th Jan visit from the Police and Social services, the lead up to it and possibly any earlier visits that might have taken place along with some scuttlebutt about both of them and their history/backstory.

As someone on here said umpteen pages ago if you are going to supp with the devil (the media) make sure you use a 10ft long spoon. You can encourage press attention to get your story in the media etc but don't be surprised when they start unearthing less salubrious parts of your life you'd rather not get into the public domain.

 

[Nikynoo]

Thanks - I did consider the deep hole scenario too. The only thing I cannot understand is if she had resurfaced at any point in the 24 days, how has no one seen her body floating down the river. The only scenario I can see is that she was moved along the riverbed until she finally resurfaced on the Sunday. But that then doesn’t account for going over the weir. Her body surely would have got stuck. IMO. Just wondering if it was past the weir where she went in - it would point more to suicide sadly. I hope it wasn’t. I hope it was an accident. I know time of death will maybe help ascertain where she entered.

BBM, I am with you.

Body could possibly have gone over the weir during darkness - we have roughly the same amount of daylight as darkness at the moment, so that is a possibility. If I had the time, I'd look at water levels and tide times to try and narrow it down.

 

[Marie Bell]

Well police mentioned it and menopause has become a talking point and I suspect won’t be a stigma anymore. The case histories in papers were some positive, some not. Think it would be odd, the subject coming out in press conf and media not doing backgrounders on it. I am just listening to tv debate on it with an MP. I suspect most women’s magazines will be running info on menopause for next few months. Male MP just said the stigma will go as it did with talking about sanitary products.

Internally within police forces Menopause is a Big Thing, with 'Menopause Support/Awareness Meetings/Groups' and a ton of guidance for those managing or leading departments and teams. This is why I felt that LP would have been somewhat surprised to find that in the world outside it was seen in any way as stigmatising. I felt that it had only been mentioned as a 'softener', i.e. a reason for how or why NB had gone on to have some issues with alcohol.

 

[Agatha3]

I'm pretty sure it is him. Media sources have pics that look like him on his website. But if he is making a false claim, he's risking the police stepping in to say it's not true.
Whatever, I hate to say it as I didn't like the intrusion on the community, but it looks like thanks to a member of the public (medium or not), the family has some sort of closure. They could have been waiting months and maybe forever. Man who spotted Nicola Bulley's body reeds breaks his silence

I didn’t believe it when I first read his post about finding the body. Went back to pix and there he was with a copper and pointing to River. I still doubted it! But beginning to look the real McCoy!

 

[brownbeef1975]

We now know that it was released to public because MWT and Media were going to release far worse.

However, police should have been very limited in what they released without sharing detail and done a joint release with NB family.

Let's hope that MWT and PF never get another job in search of missings.

Then let them be the scum that they are - it's not the role of the police to mitigate against the dregs of the MSM by divulging private, medical, confidential information of a missing person. What they said earlier in the day was far enough.

 

[Agatha3]

Internally within police forces Menopause is a Big Thing, with 'Menopause Support/Awareness Meetings/Groups' and a ton of guidance for those managing or leading departments and teams. This is why I felt that LP would have been somewhat surprised to find that in the world outside it was seen in any way as stigmatising. I felt that it had only been mentioned as a 'softener', i.e. a reason for how or why NB had gone on to have some issues with alcohol.

Yes me too on your last bit. Didn’t know that about awareness, so thanks for that. But I am old enough to remember a certain crime (won’t name in case it looks like I am generalising, judging, or it might get misconstrued) which stopped getting reported in court because of menopausal problems.

 

[pineapple23]

He is making a false claim, he is claiming he has a gift, beyond looking with his eyes, and he doesn't. He makes money from psychic shows, and this sort of thing really helps bring the punters in, its fraudulent. He lives locally by the looks of it

I don't believe in his psychic powers but it looks like his claim to have found the body is true. He's from Oldham so not local. Man who found Nicola Bulley's body is 'spiritual medium' from Greater Manchester

 

[Agatha3]

I don't believe in his psychic powers but it looks like his claim to have found the body is true. He's from Oldham so not local. Man who found Nicola Bulley's body is 'spiritual medium' from Greater Manchester

Might get him to choose me a scratchcard.

 

[lvbut]

There seems to be an attitude from media and also the public in general that they are entitled to know every detail of everything and that experts are not to be trusted.
There are people just waiting to criticise the police and others who are just doing their jobs. It’s not going to be perfect everytime but this constant hounding of people is causing more problems and distracting people from their work.

The media are supposed to report news rather than create it by inventing conspiracy theories and reporting on SM rumours. They need to remember where that line is because it’s been crossed too many times recently,

It’s almost as if they got told off for being too intrusive in celeb lives and decided to dig into ‘normal’ folks’ lives instead…

 

[brownbeef1975]

Internally within police forces Menopause is a Big Thing, with 'Menopause Support/Awareness Meetings/Groups' and a ton of guidance for those managing or leading departments and teams. This is why I felt that LP would have been somewhat surprised to find that in the world outside it was seen in any way as stigmatising. I felt that it had only been mentioned as a 'softener', i.e. a reason for how or why NB had gone on to have some issues with alcohol.

What did it add to the search and how was it justified? They didn't stop at menopause. They went into mental health, alcohol issues and an ongoing investigation into an incident that required police and mental health officer intervention. In what way did disclosing private and confidential information about the menopause, alcohol or possible mental health issues change the investigation into her as a missing person, other than to shift the public narrative? Absolutely awful and I'm getting more and more angry every time I see it trying to be justified.

 

[Marie Bell]

re bit in bold - Absolutely haven't learned

Here's an oldie on MWT, under a previous editor
Self-promoting TV detective helped ruin the lives of innocent celebs

ETA - problem going forward, is that if the inquest is not as conclusive as everybody would like, the speculation never ends. I posted about the Todd inquest into an apparent case of suicide, to illustrate the level of proof the coroner might require Todd death 'not suicide' ( Prior to inquest, all the media links speculated suicide)

My Twitter pal, Matthew Scott, criminal barrister (often invited on radio or TV to comment on current legal matters, and a fountain of good sense) has been watching MWT for a very long time, as have many of us. There aren't many of those I know on Twitter who aren't blocked by MWT because we asked him questions, right from the start, that he didn't care for.
Here's a couple of Matthew Scott's blogs, in which MWT appears. Search Results for “Mark Williams-Thomas” – BarristerBlogger

 

[ruby925]

Technically, there will not have been a breach of the legislation if the release was justified. However, I do query if justified. More generic statements and mention of who was not a suspect would have perhaps sufficed IMO.

If NB had a heart condition (also making her vulnerable) and this was disclosed, there may not have been such an outcry about privacy. IMO there was a shift of emphasis once her vulnerability was published, in that there was a possibility she had walked away from her life, even if only on a temporary basis. Added to PA stating he was sure NB was not in the river, this gave a new slant to the case, and now I am only sorry that this isn't what happened.

 

[cottonweaver]

I suspect he freelanced it because of the 'doorstep' nature of the interviews

i.e. media cameras were onsite (to get endless b-roll of 'the search) so then he just jumped in with his yellow jacket on to give a running commentary. Great stuff. And with stringers there - lots of channels can get the footage.

Police investigation was not based there. At times there did seem to be one official looking person who might have been a police liaison - but maybe to do with the search and not media

I do feel the investigation could have done a daily briefing once things got so insane. Not just a presser, but actually a spokesperson to do the round of channel appearances

yes I noticed Danny Shaw ( former BBC specialist on policing, home affairs etc) mention that as a suggestion but am a bit sceptical re press office holding daily briefings if live questions were to be allowed. Potential minefield if SIO who has best understanding of all the case detail isn't doing it.( X was inaccurate on the gilet length, Y mis-spoke on the timing of that witness, Z got the road name wrong were examples of previous complaints ) And SIO/other leading case detective doesn't have the time.
Even with four press conferences in three weeks & ten official updates on site, most media chose not to highlight the info that LP were asking for and got basics wrong, sometimes wilfully wrong & deliberately parsed.
Being on WS during last 3 weeks was like being on a live fact-checking website. Crazy

Curveball but - if LP had never given a timeline - would the 'whodunnit' narratives have taken off? ( too much detail rather than not enough?)
And even if you do daily briefings how do you deal with eg press asking banana-skin questions such as ' well.... family friend has said on Facebook that this just isn't possible because....'
So would have to be a daily briefing with selected questions submitted in advance & LP selecting those Qs to answer ( There'd be complaints from press about that too)

 

[Wishbone]

“Michael's [who vanished in a 9 minute window] body was found 23 days after he went missing, less than a mile from where he disappeared, by two walkers who alerted the police. His death came after a two-week search by mountain rescue, fire and rescue services, and friends and family in February 2018.”

Some uncanny similarities there…

Appears to be synchronicity at work IMO

 

[GeorgeFormby]

I don't believe in his psychic powers but it looks like his claim to have found the body is true. He's from Oldham so not local. Man who found Nicola Bulley's body is 'spiritual medium' from Greater Manchester

Oldham is not that far away from Preston. He's done psychic shows in Preston

 

[cottonweaver]

What did it add to the search and how was it justified? They didn't stop at menopause. They went into mental health, alcohol issues and an ongoing investigation into an incident that required police and mental health officer intervention. In what way did disclosing private and confidential information about the menopause, alcohol or possible mental health issues change the investigation into her as a missing person, other than to shift the public narrative? Absolutely awful and I'm getting more and more angry every time I see it trying to be justified.

iirc LP never said that they were releasing it in order to help the search.
The reason they gave is in the penultimate paragraph attached ( that para is hidden unless you click on the link)


PS am not justifying it - by replying to you- am just a fan of accuracy & not a fan of false premises

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625916120879300609

 

[Agatha3]

yes I noticed Danny Shaw ( former BBC specialist on policing, home affairs etc) mention that as a suggestion but am a bit sceptical re press office holding daily briefings if live questions were to be allowed. Potential minefield if SIO who has best understanding of all the case detail isn't doing it.( X was inaccurate on the gilet length, Y mis-spoke on the timing of that witness, Z got the road name wrong) And SIO/other leading case detective doesn't have the time.
Even with four press conferences in three weeks & ten official updates on site, most media chose not to highlight the info that LP were asking for and got basics wrong, sometimes wilfully wrong & deliberately parsed.
Being on WS during last 3 weeks was like being on a live fact-checking website. Crazy

Curveball but - if LP had never given a timeline - would the 'whodunnit' narratives have taken off? ( too much detail rather than not enough?)
And even if you do daily briefings how do you deal with eg press asking banana-skin questions such as ' well.... family friend has said on Facebook that this just isn't possible because....'
So would have to be a daily briefing with selected questions submitted in advance & LP selecting those Qs to answer ( There'd be complaints from press about that too)

Or a press release, like an embargo, cheap and easy. No public questions.

 

[Marie Bell]

Yes me too on your last bit. Didn’t know that about awareness, so thanks for that. But I am old enough to remember a certain crime (won’t name in case it looks like I am generalising, judging, or it might get misconstrued) which stopped getting reported in court because of menopausal problems.

Yes, I don't want to 'out' myself, but I promise that 'Menopause' is now on a long list of things that police officers and staff are bombarded with on their internal 'internet' site. Others include 'Autism, Dyslexia, LGBT, Ethnicity, Mental Health, Religions'. One female Chief Constable who really went big on menopause was Dee Collins, West Yorkshire. Here she is 3 years ago, speaking at the Police Federation conference.

 

[Wishbone]

BBM, I think that scenario is most likely. I suspect once the body went over the weir, it moved back and forth as was subject to the tides going in and out. So they may have searched one place on one day and not found her, only for her body to move to the place previously searched the next day.

The body entering the tidal side of the weir to begin with seems a possibility as well IMO