UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[JosieJo]

I'm not sure she would have been told exact names till arrested...the nmc may have just been general

 

[Marantz4250b]

I'm not sure when she was given names ..but either way she doesn't claim that is why she looked or that's why the name came to mind

Again, her answers to the repeated FB searches are of a strikingly similar nature, IMO, to those relating to the hand-over sheets. "It's just something I do" or words similar.

It's all some strange sort of "gathering/collecting/hoarding" behavior is what it looks like to me. I can't decide whether she knows she does these things and can't fully face up to it or whether she genuinely thinks it's perfectly normal.

All MOO, obvs.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm still absolutely baffled by her answers about the hand-over notes. As I've mentioned before, I simply do not believe that taking all these home and hanging on to them were simple "errors" on her part.

There is a deeper reason for her doing this but I'm not at all convinced that, if she's guilty, it had anything to do with the alleged crimes themselves. No expert here but I just think that something deeply psychologically weird is going on here. I mean, even if she is indeed guilty, and as manipulative and dishonest as some people are implying, then why doesn't she just invent some elaborate yarn about having some strange compulsive behavior disorder or something?

I think because if she admits she was collecting them it's a whole lot closer to something that could then be deemed sinister, than if she denied they meant anything to her and it was pure error.

LL distancing herself from them, not just keeping them, but saying she never looked at them, makes me think the opposite.

 

[marynnu]

I'm fairly sure she will have been. She got a letter from NMC in laste 2016 raising concerns about her practice so she'd have definitely been looking into things. Quite likely she was told officially what patients it related to or someone gave her hints. It was at least eighteen months before she was first arrested and I don't believe that she did nothing for that whole period. She's definitely not that type.

Didn't she message a friend that she was gathering information?

 

[ColourPurple]

Again, her answers to the repeated FB searches are of a strikingly similar nature, IMO, to those relating to the hand-over sheets. "It's just something I do" or words similar.

That's because the defence are (understandably) letting her get away with giving such a vague non-answer, so of course she's going to keep repeating it. There's no way the prosecution will accept that as an answer!

JMO
.

 

[Tortoise]

Again, her answers to the repeated FB searches are of a strikingly similar nature, IMO, to those relating to the hand-over sheets. "It's just something I do" or words similar.

It's all some strange sort of "gathering/collecting/hoarding" behavior is what it looks like to me. I can't decide whether she knows she does these things and can't fully face up to it or whether she genuinely thinks it's perfectly normal.

All MOO, obvs.

there is a third option, if she's guilty.

looking up the parents of babies in the unit, all of them - not just parents of the babies she's been charged with harming/murdering, keeping handover sheets, all of them - not just the ones she's been charged with, could be planning and research, and for those no longer in the unit, still feeling connected with them.

 

[Dotta]

That's because the defence are (understandably) letting her get away with giving such a vague non-answer, so of course she's going to keep repeating it. There's no way the prosecution will accept that as an answer!

JMO
.

I guess her answers will be as vague as now.

It is up to Prosecution to turn this into their "advantage".
And Jury will draw their own conclusions.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I'm interested only in what's in evidence and whether the prosecution is able to prove its case.

What's in evidence for this particular charge, is that baby N collapsed in room 1, 5 minutes after his designated nurse Christopher Booth went on his one hour meal break.

There were four other nurses on duty.

1. Mel Taylor, the shift-leader
2. Sophie Ellis, junior nurse, designated babies in rooms 2 and 3.
3. Valerie Thomas, nursery nurse
4. Lucy Letby, qualified for ITU, designated two babies in room 4.

It's going to be either LL or MT left to watch baby N for that hour because SE and VT aren't qualified. Since LL was allocated to room 4, her babies were not high dependency. LL's nursing notes for her own babies do not show her busy with her designated babies at the relevant time, there must be a gap from at least 1am to 1.15am in her nursing records because she suggests the possibility she might not have been on the unit at that time.

I don't know if the shift-leader would generally look after babies while someone is on their break for an hour. MT doesn't remember the collapse.

That's without considering the cumulative nature of the charges against LL, which will likely have a bearing if the jury accepts the expert opinion of the cause of the collapse.

MOO

 

[Becci]

Someone on another forum made a good point.
Baby k
The swipe data showed the designated nurse leaving at 3.47am??

 

[Tortoise]

Someone on another forum made a good point.
Baby k
The swipe data showed the designated nurse leaving at 3.47am??

She was entering the labour ward, which is presumably a secured entry system, rather than an exit swipe.

"Swipe data is recorded showing Child K's designated nurse Joanne Williams leaving nursery room 1 at 3.47am to go to the labour ward."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, February 27

 

[Becci]

She was entering the labour ward, which is presumably a secured entry system, rather than an exit swipe.

"Swipe data is recorded showing Child K's designated nurse Joanne Williams leaving nursery room 1 at 3.47am to go to the labour ward."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, February 27

Ok thanks. I wouldn't have thought of that

 

[Tortoise]

<modsnip: Quoted post was remmoved>

Posts are made here to be replied to, at will. Someone else might find the information useful.

 

[JosieJo]

Can anyone remember if LL has always denied the exchange between herself and Dr Jayaram ?

 

[Tortoise]

Can anyone remember if LL has always denied the exchange between herself and Dr Jayaram ?

"Mr Johnson, who read out part of Ms Letby's interviews to police, said: "She stated she would have raised the alarm if Dr Jayaram had not walked in and if she had seen the saturations dropping or that the tube had slipped.
"Miss Letby thought it possible that she was waiting to see if [Child K] self-corrected," he said.
"She explained that nurses don't always intervene straightaway if levels were not 'dangerously low'."

Lucy Letby: Nurse denied dislodging baby's breathing tube, trial hears

opening statements -

"In police interview, when Dr Jayaram's account was put to her, she said no concerns had been raised at the time.
She said the alarm had not sounded. She said Child K was sedated and had not been moving around.
She also did not recall either any significant fall in saturations or there being no alarm. She accepted that in the circumstances described by Dr Jayaram she would have expected the alarm to have sounded.
she denied dislodging the tube and said she would have summoned help had Dr Jayaram not arrived, saying she was "possibly waiting to see if she self-corrected, we don’t normally intervene straight away if they weren’t dangerously low".

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

 

[bobbymkii]

She was entering the labour ward, which is presumably a secured entry system, rather than an exit swipe.

"Swipe data is recorded showing Child K's designated nurse Joanne Williams leaving nursery room 1 at 3.47am to go to the labour ward."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, February 27

This is something I've seen disputed elsewhere. Did the staff actually have to swipe to get out of places as well as in?
In a medical setting (particularly an ICU) I can imagine it being a bit of a problem if say there was an emergency somewhere else and they had to swipe before they could get out?

 

[Dotta]

"Mr Johnson, who read out part of Ms Letby's interviews to police, said: "She stated she would have raised the alarm if Dr Jayaram had not walked in and if she had seen the saturations dropping or that the tube had slipped.
"Miss Letby thought it possible that she was waiting to see if [Child K] self-corrected," he said.
"She explained that nurses don't always intervene straightaway if levels were not 'dangerously low'."

Lucy Letby: Nurse denied dislodging baby's breathing tube, trial hears

opening statements -

"In police interview, when Dr Jayaram's account was put to her, she said no concerns had been raised at the time.
She said the alarm had not sounded. She said Child K was sedated and had not been moving around.
She also did not recall either any significant fall in saturations or there being no alarm. She accepted that in the circumstances described by Dr Jayaram she would have expected the alarm to have sounded.
she denied dislodging the tube and said she would have summoned help had Dr Jayaram not arrived, saying she was "possibly waiting to see if she self-corrected, we don’t normally intervene straight away if they weren’t dangerously low".

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

What was she thinking today denying all this??

What was the aim of it? The purpose?

Who advises her?

"This train is bound for" disaster IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

This is something I've seen disputed elsewhere. Did the staff actually have to swipe to get out of places as well as in?
In a medical setting (particularly an ICU) I can imagine it being a bit of a problem if say there was an emergency somewhere else and they had to swipe before they could get out?

They said today -

"The court has heard swipe data is collected when staff members enter the unit, not exit."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 16 - defence continues

 

[bobbymkii]

They said today -

"The court has heard swipe data is collected when staff members enter the unit, not exit."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 16 - defence continues

So basically we know when the desi nurse (Joanne I think is her name) arrived at the labour unit, but not the exact time when she left the NICU, therefore the exact amount of time LL had alone to (alledgedly) dislodge the child's nasal tube before TV Dr Ravi burst in.
Massive apologies if this has already been covered at length earlier in the thread and I've failed to keep up. I'm still a relative n00b on websleuths and most of the trial forums I comment on aren't nearly as busy as this particular forum is.
I've been confused by this trial from the get-go and out of all of the cases in the indictment Child K is by far the most confusing of the lot IMO!

 

[Tortoise]

So basically we know when the desi nurse (Joanne I think is her name) arrived at the labour unit, but not the exact time when she left the NICU, therefore the exact amount of time LL had alone to (alledgedly) dislodge the child's nasal tube before TV Dr Ravi burst in.
Massive apologies if this has already been covered at length earlier in the thread and I've failed to keep up. I'm still a relative n00b on websleuths and most of the trial forums I comment on aren't nearly as busy as this particular forum is.
I've been confused by this trial from the get-go and out of all of the cases in the indictment Child K is by far the most confusing of the lot IMO!

I don't know if you've seen the layout of the unit. The labour ward entrance is next to nursery 1.



https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial

 

[Lincoln34]

That's because the defence are (understandably) letting her get away with giving such a vague non-answer, so of course she's going to keep repeating it. There's no way the prosecution will accept that as an answer!

JMO
.

IMO we are going to have blame of other hospital staff / management at the core of the defence.