UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[sleuth777]

Sky News link:

Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies

Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* thread

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[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.

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As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:

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Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.


Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981

 

[Tortoise]

Mr Johnson asks why Letby kept bringing handover sheets home. Letby said it was a few.
Mr Johnson: "Well, 250 times, it isn't"
Letby: "That is over many years"
Mr Johnson: "Well even if it's 50, that's over five years."
Mr Johnson: "What is your normal practice?"
Letby: "With handover sheets? To dispose of them - they have come home with me."
Mr Johnson: "You have taken them home."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues

I have to commend Mr Johnson for picking up on LL's avoidance of responsibility here. She speaks as if the handover sheets had legs and skipped along beside her.

 

[Sundial]

She said it not me.

i think the rule about disposing of them in the bins as the shift finishes is a trust made rule, locally made and enforced but not a legal requirement.

I’m sorry but yes it is. It is a legal requirement to dispose of them properly.

 

[katydid23]

Yes. I don’t know what they contain, bed number, medicines, how often they’re fed etc?

But every bit of that ^^^ is confidential information.
It also has medical history and diagnosis and symptoms and family history and possibly even some financial info and or names/addresses etc.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think I’m remembering something about her police interviews. im really not sure but when she said she didn’t have a shredder wasnt it suggested that the notes were found in the same room as the shredder? That may indeed have been my imagination though.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I think I’m remembering something about her police interviews. im really not sure but when she said she didn’t have a shredder wasnt it suggested that the notes were found in the same room as the shredder? That may indeed have been my imagination though.

Some were found in the box the shredder came in, I believe.

 

[katydid23]

Just confusing wording. ie hospital staff wash the uniforms and nurses are hospital staff. Therefore LL washes her uniform.

Yes, it fooled me. I thought it meant they had staff that laundered the unis. My niece is an emergency room nurse and she changes at work and leaves her unis there to be washed. It is not medically safe to carry hers out of the hospital due to germs etc.

 

[ColourPurple]

It's very bizarre, to be honest. Sheets were found in bags under her bed, bin bags in her garage and a box in a cupboard in her room at her parents house but she claims that it was normal procedure for her to put them in a folder???? No one on either side has commented on this at all. If it wasn't true (which it clearly isn't) then why hasn't the prosecution called her out on it?

The folder claim was in the same interview where she claimed not to have a shredder, so I think we can probably file both claims in the same folder (Feel free to label that folder whatever you wish...but probably not "KEEP")

JMO


In a third overarching interview, Letby is asked about the handover sheets.

She said, 'ideally', the handover sheets should be put in the confidential waste bin at the end of her shifts.

She said that at times, they would come home with her.

She is asked about 'a large quantity of handover sheets' at Letby's home address. She replies there was "no specific reason" why she had taken them home.

She said she would have been aware she still had the handover sheets when she got home, and put them in a folder in the spare room.

She said she "didn't know how to dispose of them" and no-one else had seen them.

She said she would have seen those handover sheets at home "hardly ever".

She said she did not have a shredder and those sheets were at home 'inadvertently'.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

I’m sorry but yes it is. It is a legal requirement to dispose of them properly.

can You explain why she said it was her only requirement to keep them confidential? Or where she got the idea from? I’m guessing she was advised to say that by someone in the know. That is guesswork from me though, fully.

seems like a very lawyery trick to me. Yes is a trick as well, shoot at dawn some might say. Jmo

 

[katydid23]

Some were found in the box the shredder came in, I believe.

Right, but then for some reason the box said KEEP on it.

 

[Sundial]

What absolute nonsense. Do you really think hospitals allow their staff to take confidential patient documents home? How would they monitor staff's living situations and guests? How do they know staff's partners, roommates, children, visitors etc won't get their hands on these documents?

Hint: they definitely would not make an exception for Lucy being a single homeowner. This was 100% against the rules. To the point where if LL is found not guilty on all charges, I'm pretty sure she will still never work as a nurse again.

It’s not just that either; key policy makers, the nmc, trust protocols etc; don’t know what people’s intentions might be, who can get hold of them etc; all it takes is ONE mistake and boom; you’ve exposed your patients (even just one) medical information to the world.
When I first joined uni, there was an example of this and they use it even in todays world in training; where a student had left medical notes (including a handover) in their bag on the bus. Another example was students discussing patients whilst in a coffee shop after work with a colleague. There was a member of the public sitting right behind them who was able to identify the student, their year of training, where they worked and what they were saying and reported it to the university.

The university actually said in this instance, it was a concerned member of the public who was mortified that had they have known said patients or have been their family- can you imagine hearing that? Discussion on private and personal, sensitive data being overheard, kept or lazily disregarded whether intentional or not.
Whether this is a student, trained nurse, confidential patient handover sheets or general discussions in a coffee shop- they cannot make it any more clearer if they tried even very early on in training- just DO not do it.

 

[squish]

can You explain why she said it was her only requirement to keep them confidential? Or where she got the idea from? I’m guessing she was advised to say that by someone in the know. That is guesswork from me though, fully.

seems like a very lawyery trick to me. Yes is a trick as well, shoot at dawn some might say. Jmo

Very simple, she's minimising her data protection rule-breaking because, guilty or innocent, it makes her look terrible.

 

[Sundial]

can You explain why she said it was her only requirement to keep them confidential? Or where she got the idea from? I’m guessing she was advised to say that by someone in the know. That is guesswork from me though, fully.

seems like a very lawyery trick to me. Yes is a trick as well, shoot at dawn some might say. Jmo

Because she’s chatting absolute nonsense and the vast majority of nurses and the medical profession or anyone else who works with sensitive data KNOW exactly what the requirements are.
She is trying imo to talk herself out of a major big b.. up and she knows it.
Moo

 

[Sundial]

It's very bizarre, to be honest. Sheets were found in bags under her bed, bin bags in her garage and in a box in a cupboard in her room at her parents house but she claims that it was normal procedure for her to put them in a folder???? No one on either side has commented on this at all. If it wasn't true (which it clearly isn't) then why hasn't the prosecution called her out on it?

In the short 20 or so mins that the prosecution had today; I’m sure there will be more to come. I feel the remainder of this week alone will be quite interesting.
JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Some were found in the box the shredder came in, I believe.

There was five handovers found at her parents address in a cupboard in a shredders collection box. I don’t really include them in conclusions rdrawn from her own “collection“ though. If she knew they were there I think she would take them to her own house and put them in the folder.

 

[katydid23]

can You explain why she said it was her only requirement to keep them confidential? Or where she got the idea from? I’m guessing she was advised to say that by someone in the know. That is guesswork from me though, fully.

seems like a very lawyery trick to me. Yes is a trick as well, shoot at dawn some might say. Jmo

I have to take that statement from her with a grain of salt because of previous statements of hers.

She also said that preemie newborns often self recover so she wouldn't take immediate action but would stand and watch to see first.
But then the court heard from a senior nurse, who read out 'agreed upon' info, which stated that it was not sound protocol to take that approach with a tiny preemie.

She also said 'the lights were always kept pretty well lit 'in the rooms so the nurses could quickly see the babies faces to see their skin colour. But afterwards we heard evidence to the contrary from her co-workers.

So her statement that her only requirement was to keep them confidential makes no sense to me. Because even she should not be holding onto all of this private medical information. Many of those babies were not even her patients. So why should she have access to their confidential medical info for 5 years?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Because she’s chatting absolute nonsense and the vast majority of nurses and the medical profession or anyone else who works with sensitive data KNOW exactly what the requirements are.
She is trying imo to talk herself out of a major big b.. up and she knows it.
Moo

Your 100% on that? I know the “house rules” are always there but what she said seemed to be a reference to lawful requirements. Would assume legal counsel if that’s the case.

“lawyery trick” = legal loophole

 

[Sundial]

Mr Johnson asks why Letby kept bringing handover sheets home. Letby said it was a few.
Mr Johnson: "Well, 250 times, it isn't"
Letby: "That is over many years"
Mr Johnson: "Well even if it's 50, that's over five years."
Mr Johnson: "What is your normal practice?"
Letby: "With handover sheets? To dispose of them - they have come home with me."
Mr Johnson: "You have taken them home."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues

I have to commend Mr Johnson for picking up on LL's avoidance of responsibility here. She speaks as if the handover sheets had legs and skipped along beside her.

Must be that marvellous demeanour she has, the sheets must find her quite alluring.
Moo

 

[katydid23]

can You explain why she said it was her only requirement to keep them confidential? Or where she got the idea from? I’m guessing she was advised to say that by someone in the know. That is guesswork from me though, fully.

seems like a very lawyery trick to me. Yes is a trick as well, shoot at dawn some might say. Jmo

To me it sounds like manipulative behaviour to make a statement like that, pretending it is a legal requirement. It is not correct and is self serving and false, imo.