Tortoise
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I'm not on Twitter either. They've made it so you have to have an account to be able to see it now.
I'm not making an account to see what Myers is saying lol.
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27
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I'm not making an account to see what Myers is saying lol.
marynnu
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I'm not on Twitter either. They've made it so you have to have an account to be able to see it now.
Really? I can see it with no account.
Tortoise
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Gosh, I can't. I could before today.
Blondiexoxo
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This text sent to doc choc whilst she was in Ibiza caught my eye… this was before the death of child O, after the collapse of child N and seemingly from what we’ve heard this was around the time LL and doc choc were ‘getting to know eachother’ IMO
12:13pm
Letby messages the doctor 'Yep just got a few bits for lunch (although maybe I won't have time to eat).
The doctor replies he wasn't sure he'd eaten apart from a cereal bar before the triplets arrived.
Letby asks: "What gestation are the trips? I don't mind being busy anyway..."
Doctor: "33+5 [weeks gestation]. 3x Optiflo..."
After more messages, the doctor asks Letby if she has any choice where she is working.
Letby: "No, not with this new handover. Shift leader of night shift allocates for the day shift and vice versa. If your on a run of shifts you tend to stay with same babies."
Letby adds due to the skillsets, she tends to work in nursery room 1.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The bolded part IMO indicates that LL felt that room 1 was where the ‘more experienced’ or ‘better’ nurses were… she’s telling doc choc this asif to say ‘I’m one of the best nurses so I’m normally in room 1 with the poorly babies’ IMO.
Given how much of a fuss she’d kicked up before to be in room 1, this gives a little insight into why she was annoyed when others were put in there and she wasn’t IMO.
She wanted to be in there because IMO it’s where the ‘important’ and ‘better skilled’ nurses are.
IMO if guilty, she felt important when in room 1. Of course she has to brag about this to doc choc but subtly says due to ‘skill sets’, the meaning of this isn’t lost on me IMO it implies that LL is considered by others (and herself) to be ‘more skilled’, more qualified, more experienced, and has more ability to care for ITU babies than others. Over the course of 2015-2016 she mentions room 1 and her annoyances about not being put in there several times in texts to colleagues.
It’s interesting because this message serves two purposes IMO, she’s letting doc choc know she’s one of the ‘more skilled’ nurses on the unit and also giving a reason why she might be involved in any incidents of collapse. Because she’s more skilled so she’s put in charge of the ITU babies, everyone else is just feeding, changing nappies, doing the ‘boring’ jobs.
I personally think message gives quite a bit away and insight into how LL sees herself and wants others to see her. I can see how at the time it could be considered a throwaway comment with no meaning behind it but knowing what we know now I found it interesting. She doesn’t openly brag, possibly not wanting to come across as an egomaniac. Instead it’s the use of the phrase ‘due to skill sets’ which makes me wonder what she’s implying? Is it that they need LL because she’s a ‘good’ nurse and experienced, clever, knows what she’s doing.. while the others (according to her anyway) don’t have a clue?
She also later on makes a comment about being annoyed with a colleague for ‘faffing about’ because ‘I like things calm and tidy’, yet another reference to how others aren’t as great and superior like she is. But again it’s a subtle comment, IMO a well thought out one. Showing self awareness, and knowing that by openly bragging she could come across as self centred - if she was hoping to pursue romance with doc choc this could have been a conscious decision not wanting to ‘put him off’ yet knowing from his compliments that he sees her as a wonderful nurse and considers her superior ‘you are one of the few I would trust with my own children’ for example.
<modsnip - diagnosing>
12:13pm
Letby messages the doctor 'Yep just got a few bits for lunch (although maybe I won't have time to eat).
The doctor replies he wasn't sure he'd eaten apart from a cereal bar before the triplets arrived.
Letby asks: "What gestation are the trips? I don't mind being busy anyway..."
Doctor: "33+5 [weeks gestation]. 3x Optiflo..."
After more messages, the doctor asks Letby if she has any choice where she is working.
Letby: "No, not with this new handover. Shift leader of night shift allocates for the day shift and vice versa. If your on a run of shifts you tend to stay with same babies."
Letby adds due to the skillsets, she tends to work in nursery room 1.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, March 8
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
The bolded part IMO indicates that LL felt that room 1 was where the ‘more experienced’ or ‘better’ nurses were… she’s telling doc choc this asif to say ‘I’m one of the best nurses so I’m normally in room 1 with the poorly babies’ IMO.
Given how much of a fuss she’d kicked up before to be in room 1, this gives a little insight into why she was annoyed when others were put in there and she wasn’t IMO.
She wanted to be in there because IMO it’s where the ‘important’ and ‘better skilled’ nurses are.
IMO if guilty, she felt important when in room 1. Of course she has to brag about this to doc choc but subtly says due to ‘skill sets’, the meaning of this isn’t lost on me IMO it implies that LL is considered by others (and herself) to be ‘more skilled’, more qualified, more experienced, and has more ability to care for ITU babies than others. Over the course of 2015-2016 she mentions room 1 and her annoyances about not being put in there several times in texts to colleagues.
It’s interesting because this message serves two purposes IMO, she’s letting doc choc know she’s one of the ‘more skilled’ nurses on the unit and also giving a reason why she might be involved in any incidents of collapse. Because she’s more skilled so she’s put in charge of the ITU babies, everyone else is just feeding, changing nappies, doing the ‘boring’ jobs.
I personally think message gives quite a bit away and insight into how LL sees herself and wants others to see her. I can see how at the time it could be considered a throwaway comment with no meaning behind it but knowing what we know now I found it interesting. She doesn’t openly brag, possibly not wanting to come across as an egomaniac. Instead it’s the use of the phrase ‘due to skill sets’ which makes me wonder what she’s implying? Is it that they need LL because she’s a ‘good’ nurse and experienced, clever, knows what she’s doing.. while the others (according to her anyway) don’t have a clue?
She also later on makes a comment about being annoyed with a colleague for ‘faffing about’ because ‘I like things calm and tidy’, yet another reference to how others aren’t as great and superior like she is. But again it’s a subtle comment, IMO a well thought out one. Showing self awareness, and knowing that by openly bragging she could come across as self centred - if she was hoping to pursue romance with doc choc this could have been a conscious decision not wanting to ‘put him off’ yet knowing from his compliments that he sees her as a wonderful nurse and considers her superior ‘you are one of the few I would trust with my own children’ for example.
<modsnip - diagnosing>
Last edited by a moderator:
ColourPurple
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So other than the door swipe, and observations (that presumably were recorded in real time) and possibly the Dr's note if that was real time, the other timings are all based on what LL said when she wrote her notes up later.
Same here - though when I could, it only went so far before demanding I signed up. I agree, not worth signing up for this!
marynnu
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Has anyone put this already? I'll delete if so, or if nobody can bear it!!
From today.
Lucy Letby's murder trial continues at Manchester Crown today. Her defence barrister Ben Myers KC is expected to wrap up his closing speech to the jury. For the last nine months the nurse has been on trial for the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of a further 10
Child O, continued
Mr Myers is on his feet, he's continuing to take the jury back over the evidence for triplet brother Child O. The court heard he was stable up until 23 June 2016, when he suffered a "remarkable deterioration", he stabilised but later suffered a further fatal collapse.
Mr Myers says the explanation of the experts - that there was an assault which resulted in a trauma to the liver and air embolus - is 'confusing'. He invites the jury to consider 'how, where and when' this things happened. He said it's 'very unclear'.
Mr Myers says the prosecution has not identified a time or place where these alleged offences took place.
Mr Myers has pulled up the neonatal review - which has been pulled together by police analysts and is a timeline of events - it shows that Child O was given medicines by two other nurses at 14:39. Ms Letby is seen as doing an infusion at 14:40, just before the collapse
Mr Myers notes the door swipe data which shows Ms Letby only arrived at 14:39 on the unit. He drills deeper into the clinical notes which show Child O collapsed at 14:40 and then Ms Letby, on instruction from a doctor, began an infusion in response at 14:40 ie after the event
Mr Myers says 'it's important to keep this in mind, the suggestion has been made that at 14:40 somehow Ms Letby was involved in what took place before the collapse, she was not'
Mr Myers picks up on the evidence of an independent pathologist, who reviewed the case. He said the boy suffered an "impact injury" akin to a road traffic collision - which caused bruising on his liver
Mr Myers says 'the truth is' we 'don't know' how much force it took to make those bruises. He says the pathologist picked 'graphic examples' but cannot say how 'little force' it would take to cause those injuries in a neonate
The barrister says it is a 'possibility' that the bruising was a result of CPR during the failed resuscitation attempts on Child O
Mr Myers is pulling up messages sent between Ms Letby and a doctor who cannot be named on 1 July 2016. They were talking about the events surrounding Child O's collapse
The doctor tells Ms Letby that one of his doctor colleagues was 'was upset' as the boy's liver issue 'may have been cause by her chest compressions'. He said he had to reassure the doctor for 20minutes
Mr Myers says this 'raises the possibility that injury can be caused by CPR, plainly this was something she was concerned about'.
He invites the jury to keep this in mind
Mr Myers notes that the prosecution have made much of Ms Letby's Facebook searches for the parents of Child O. He says 'nothing about those' searches establishes guilt and says 'how is that meant to indicate she had done something to harm' him.
From today.
Lucy Letby's murder trial continues at Manchester Crown today. Her defence barrister Ben Myers KC is expected to wrap up his closing speech to the jury. For the last nine months the nurse has been on trial for the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of a further 10
Child O, continued
Mr Myers is on his feet, he's continuing to take the jury back over the evidence for triplet brother Child O. The court heard he was stable up until 23 June 2016, when he suffered a "remarkable deterioration", he stabilised but later suffered a further fatal collapse.
Mr Myers says the explanation of the experts - that there was an assault which resulted in a trauma to the liver and air embolus - is 'confusing'. He invites the jury to consider 'how, where and when' this things happened. He said it's 'very unclear'.
Mr Myers says the prosecution has not identified a time or place where these alleged offences took place.
Mr Myers has pulled up the neonatal review - which has been pulled together by police analysts and is a timeline of events - it shows that Child O was given medicines by two other nurses at 14:39. Ms Letby is seen as doing an infusion at 14:40, just before the collapse
Mr Myers notes the door swipe data which shows Ms Letby only arrived at 14:39 on the unit. He drills deeper into the clinical notes which show Child O collapsed at 14:40 and then Ms Letby, on instruction from a doctor, began an infusion in response at 14:40 ie after the event
Mr Myers says 'it's important to keep this in mind, the suggestion has been made that at 14:40 somehow Ms Letby was involved in what took place before the collapse, she was not'
Mr Myers picks up on the evidence of an independent pathologist, who reviewed the case. He said the boy suffered an "impact injury" akin to a road traffic collision - which caused bruising on his liver
Mr Myers says 'the truth is' we 'don't know' how much force it took to make those bruises. He says the pathologist picked 'graphic examples' but cannot say how 'little force' it would take to cause those injuries in a neonate
The barrister says it is a 'possibility' that the bruising was a result of CPR during the failed resuscitation attempts on Child O
Mr Myers is pulling up messages sent between Ms Letby and a doctor who cannot be named on 1 July 2016. They were talking about the events surrounding Child O's collapse
The doctor tells Ms Letby that one of his doctor colleagues was 'was upset' as the boy's liver issue 'may have been cause by her chest compressions'. He said he had to reassure the doctor for 20minutes
Mr Myers says this 'raises the possibility that injury can be caused by CPR, plainly this was something she was concerned about'.
He invites the jury to keep this in mind
Mr Myers notes that the prosecution have made much of Ms Letby's Facebook searches for the parents of Child O. He says 'nothing about those' searches establishes guilt and says 'how is that meant to indicate she had done something to harm' him.
Last edited:
This are Dan's tweet so far. I've got to crack on with work so can't do it regularly, but if no one else can do them I can copy more later.
Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
1h
Mr Myers is on his feet, he's continuing to take the jury back over the evidence for triplet brother Child O. The court heard he was stable up until 23 June 2016, when he suffered a "remarkable deterioration", he stabilised but later suffered a further fatal collapse.
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
1h
Mr Myers says the explanation of the experts - that there was an assault which resulted in a trauma to the liver and air embolus - is 'confusing'. He invites the jury to consider 'how, where and when' this things happened. He said it's 'very unclear'.
1h
Mr Myers says the prosecution has not identified a time or place where these alleged offences took place.
1h
Mr Myers has pulled up the neonatal review - which has been pulled together by police analysts and is a timeline of events - it shows that Child O was given medicines by two other nurses at 14:39. Ms Letby is seen as doing an infusion at 14:40, just before the collapse
Mr Myers notes the door swipe data which shows Ms Letby only arrived at 14:39 on the unit. He drills deeper into the clinical notes which show Child O collapsed at 14:40 and then Ms Letby, on instruction from a doctor, began an infusion in response at 14:40 ie after the event
Mr Myers says 'it's important to keep this in mind, the suggestion has been made that at 14:40 somehow Ms Letby was involved in what took place before the collapse, she was not'
Mr Myers picks up on the evidence of an independent pathologist, who reviewed the case. He said the boy suffered an "impact injury" akin to a road traffic collision - which caused bruising on his liver
Mr Myers says 'the truth is' we 'don't know' how much force it took to make those bruises. He says the pathologist picked 'graphic examples' but cannot say how 'little force' it would take to cause those injuries in a neonate
The barrister says it is a 'possibility' that the bruising was a result of CPR during the failed resuscitation attempts on Child O
Mr Myers is pulling up messages sent between Ms Letby and a doctor who cannot be named on 1 July 2016. They were talking about the events surrounding Child O's collapse
The doctor tells Ms Letby that one of his doctor colleagues was 'was upset' as the boy's liver issue 'may have been cause by her chest compressions'. He said he had to reassure the doctor for 20minutes
Mr Myers says this 'raises the possibility that injury can be caused by CPR, plainly this was something she was concerned about'. He invites the jury to keep this in mind
Mr Myers notes that the prosecution have made much of Ms Letby's Facebook searches for the parents of Child O. He says 'nothing about those' searches establishes guilt and says 'how is that meant to indicate she had done something to harm' him
Mr Myers now turns to Child O's triplet brother, Child P. At 09:35 BST on 24 June 2016, a registrar found he was "self-ventilating in air" and stable, but 15 minutes later, he collapsed and required breathing support.
Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
1h
Mr Myers is on his feet, he's continuing to take the jury back over the evidence for triplet brother Child O. The court heard he was stable up until 23 June 2016, when he suffered a "remarkable deterioration", he stabilised but later suffered a further fatal collapse.
https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
1h
Mr Myers says the explanation of the experts - that there was an assault which resulted in a trauma to the liver and air embolus - is 'confusing'. He invites the jury to consider 'how, where and when' this things happened. He said it's 'very unclear'.
1h
Mr Myers says the prosecution has not identified a time or place where these alleged offences took place.
1h
Mr Myers has pulled up the neonatal review - which has been pulled together by police analysts and is a timeline of events - it shows that Child O was given medicines by two other nurses at 14:39. Ms Letby is seen as doing an infusion at 14:40, just before the collapse
Mr Myers notes the door swipe data which shows Ms Letby only arrived at 14:39 on the unit. He drills deeper into the clinical notes which show Child O collapsed at 14:40 and then Ms Letby, on instruction from a doctor, began an infusion in response at 14:40 ie after the event
Mr Myers says 'it's important to keep this in mind, the suggestion has been made that at 14:40 somehow Ms Letby was involved in what took place before the collapse, she was not'
Mr Myers picks up on the evidence of an independent pathologist, who reviewed the case. He said the boy suffered an "impact injury" akin to a road traffic collision - which caused bruising on his liver
Mr Myers says 'the truth is' we 'don't know' how much force it took to make those bruises. He says the pathologist picked 'graphic examples' but cannot say how 'little force' it would take to cause those injuries in a neonate
The barrister says it is a 'possibility' that the bruising was a result of CPR during the failed resuscitation attempts on Child O
Mr Myers is pulling up messages sent between Ms Letby and a doctor who cannot be named on 1 July 2016. They were talking about the events surrounding Child O's collapse
The doctor tells Ms Letby that one of his doctor colleagues was 'was upset' as the boy's liver issue 'may have been cause by her chest compressions'. He said he had to reassure the doctor for 20minutes
Mr Myers says this 'raises the possibility that injury can be caused by CPR, plainly this was something she was concerned about'. He invites the jury to keep this in mind
Mr Myers notes that the prosecution have made much of Ms Letby's Facebook searches for the parents of Child O. He says 'nothing about those' searches establishes guilt and says 'how is that meant to indicate she had done something to harm' him
Mr Myers now turns to Child O's triplet brother, Child P. At 09:35 BST on 24 June 2016, a registrar found he was "self-ventilating in air" and stable, but 15 minutes later, he collapsed and required breathing support.
Blondiexoxo
Studying Forensic Psychology BSc hons
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RSBM, searching for the parents exactly a year after child O’s death, coupled with the ‘today is your birthday’ note which included apologies to child O & P, aswell as the fact that there had been no collapses while LL was away in ibiza when she said she would be coming ‘back with a bang lol’ - it’s the combination of those facts that makes child O & P’s deaths IMO some of the strongest cases against her.
MOO
marynnu
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Child P
Mr Myers now turns to Child O's triplet brother, Child P. At 09:35 BST on 24 June 2016, a registrar found he was "self-ventilating in air" and stable, but 15 minutes later, he collapsed and required breathing support.
He collapsed several more times, before being pronounced dead at 16:00.
A medical expert for the prosecution said the collapses were consistent with an "additional amount of air being given to this baby
Mr Myers says this case is another example of the Crown trying to 'shunt blame Ms Letby's way', he says the management of Child P's care was 'poor'. He notes that the baby had a pneumothorax and a X-ray which would have shown this was delayed
Mr Myers says Child P's 'death was in all likelihood a consequence of poor medical procedure' after his 09:40 collapse.
He says this case is 'a prime opportunity to hide poor performance and bad outcomes' and blame Ms Letby
A registrar Dr Ukoh recorded that at 09:35 on 24 June that Child P was self-ventilating in air. 15 minutes later, he suffered an acute deterioration at 09:50 hrs.
Mr Myers says the Crown's case is that at some point between 09:35 and 09:50 Ms Letby injected the child with air
He says 'whatever has happened, there is no opportunity' for Ms Letby to do this and says given the cast of doctors and nurses in the room it is implausible in the extreme
Mr Myers is taking the jury back over medical notes for Child P from the early hours of 24 June. He says they show the 'direction of travel', he says he was nil by mouth at this time. The senior nurse on duty said the child's abdomen appeared distended at 04:00
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SleepyJoe
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Great post Blondie.This text sent to doc choc whilst she was in Ibiza caught my eye… this was before the death of child O, after the collapse of child N and seemingly from what we’ve heard this was around the time LL and doc choc were ‘getting to know eachother’ IMO
12:13pm
Letby messages the doctor 'Yep just got a few bits for lunch (although maybe I won't have time to eat).
The doctor replies he wasn't sure he'd eaten apart from a cereal bar before the triplets arrived.
Letby asks: "What gestation are the trips? I don't mind being busy anyway..."
Doctor: "33+5 [weeks gestation]. 3x Optiflo..."
After more messages, the doctor asks Letby if she has any choice where she is working.
Letby: "No, not with this new handover. Shift leader of night shift allocates for the day shift and vice versa. If your on a run of shifts you tend to stay with same babies."
Letby adds due to the skillsets, she tends to work in nursery room 1.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, March 8
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
The bolded part IMO indicates that LL felt that room 1 was where the ‘more experienced’ or ‘better’ nurses were… she’s telling doc choc this asif to say ‘I’m one of the best nurses so I’m normally in room 1 with the poorly babies’ IMO.
Given how much of a fuss she’d kicked up before to be in room 1, this gives a little insight into why she was annoyed when others were put in there and she wasn’t IMO.
She wanted to be in there because IMO it’s where the ‘important’ and ‘better skilled’ nurses are.
IMO if guilty, she felt important when in room 1. Of course she has to brag about this to doc choc but subtly says due to ‘skill sets’, the meaning of this isn’t lost on me IMO it implies that LL is considered by others (and herself) to be ‘more skilled’, more qualified, more experienced, and has more ability to care for ITU babies than others. Over the course of 2015-2016 she mentions room 1 and her annoyances about not being put in there several times in texts to colleagues.
It’s interesting because this message serves two purposes IMO, she’s letting doc choc know she’s one of the ‘more skilled’ nurses on the unit and also giving a reason why she might be involved in any incidents of collapse. Because she’s more skilled so she’s put in charge of the ITU babies, everyone else is just feeding, changing nappies, doing the ‘boring’ jobs.
I personally think message gives quite a bit away and insight into how LL sees herself and wants others to see her. I can see how at the time it could be considered a throwaway comment with no meaning behind it but knowing what we know now I found it interesting. She doesn’t openly brag, possibly not wanting to come across as an egomaniac. Instead it’s the use of the phrase ‘due to skill sets’ which makes me wonder what she’s implying? Is it that they need LL because she’s a ‘good’ nurse and experienced, clever, knows what she’s doing.. while the others (according to her anyway) don’t have a clue?
She also later on makes a comment about being annoyed with a colleague for ‘faffing about’ because ‘I like things calm and tidy’, yet another reference to how others aren’t as great and superior like she is. But again it’s a subtle comment, IMO a well thought out one. Showing self awareness, and knowing that by openly bragging she could come across as self centred - if she was hoping to pursue romance with doc choc this could have been a conscious decision not wanting to ‘put him off’ yet knowing from his compliments that he sees her as a wonderful nurse and considers her superior ‘you are one of the few I would trust with my own children’ for example.
<modsnip - diagnosing>
Last edited by a moderator:
Tortoise
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Hmm, does he even know what he's saying half the time?
On Monday he said:
"He says some of the parents names of babies on the indictment are missing from the Facebook searches. He says there are no searches for the parents of Child L-Q."
He also said this on Monday:
Mr Myers refers to the 2015 and 2016 diaries found at Letby's home. He says there is nothing in the 2015 diary which is relevant to the indictment.
He asks, if the diaries are relevant, why there is no reference to Child A-K in them.
- and this on Wednesday:
11:22am
Mr Myers says Letby believed she had a good relationship with Child E and Child F's mother. He says there is an entry in Letby's diary on Child E - the only entry for any child in the indictment in the 2015 diary. He says there is no entry for Child F.
SleepyJoe
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BM certainly seems to be muddling things up a bit!
marynnu
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Mr Myers is going over the evidence for Child P final and fatal collapse when medics were waiting on a transport team from Arrowe Park to take him. A doctor who cannot be named recalled Ms Letby saying 'he's not going to leave here alive is he'
The doctor gave a vivid account of how she felt this was inappropriate and that Child P had just had a good gas was okay. But Mr Myers has said the clinical evidence shows Child P had an undiagnosed pneumothorax
He also notes that the doctor had said by this stage she was aware of rumours about Ms Letby - but he said 'there’s not even a datix report, not in the notes, no complaint, no issue raised about' what Ms Letby is alleged to have said
If it was undiagnosed then how did Lucy know the baby was in a worse condition than anyone thought?
marynnu
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Well, quite. Maybe BM is losing the will, along with the rest of us!
If she gets convinced will the same team be doing the appeal? Does the appeal involve court performances?
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