UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27

[notsure]

As they say:

"The dogs are barking
But..
The caravan is moving on"

This is my comment on this particular matter.


JMO

I haven't heard that saying before. I love it!

 

[CS2C]

Anyone here overly impressed with the closing speech thus far ? Interested in peoples opinions.

 

[Tortoise]

Episode 43, ‘No innocent coincidences’

www.mailplus.co.uk

Episode 43, ‘No innocent coincidences’​

In this episode Caroline and Liz continue to explain what prosecutor Nick Johnson KC said in his closing speech. He tells the jury Lucy Letby underwent training on the dangers of air embolus just days before she allegedly started harming babies and that the timings of some of the alleged attacks were strikingly similar.

Follow The Trial of Lucy Letby on Twitter @LucyLetbyTrial

Listen to the full series on catch-up

 

[Dotta]

I haven't heard that saying before. I love it!

It is a saying from my country

 

[notsure]

I hope the Prosecutor brings this point up in his closing after Johnson is done trashing the experts.

Does the prosecution get to have another go?

 

[HeatherErica]

Exactly. He's trying to discredit all of the medical experts, whilst having none of his own.

He's pointing out Dr Evans isn't a neonatologist, ignoring the fact that Dr Bohin is, and then he doesn't have a neonatologist to dispute their findings anyway.

Cutting through the attempted smoke screen of today, this, IMO, is what it essentially comes down to. And when you look at this in isolation, it's incredibly damning. In terms of medical findings, there's not even a semblance of a two-way argument or debate here.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

Anyone here overly impressed with the closing speech thus far ? Interested in peoples opinions.

I found much of it really confused and all over the place, so far anyway.

 

[Tortoise]

Anyone here overly impressed with the closing speech thus far ? Interested in peoples opinions.

I'm trying really hard to think what he's said without cheating and checking back.

I think unmoved is the word I'm looking for.

 

[Honeybirdette]

Anyone here overly impressed with the closing speech thus far ? Interested in peoples opinions.

No

 

[Dotta]

Anyone here overly impressed with the closing speech thus far ? Interested in peoples opinions.

The only bit that stuck in my mind is "bucket of cold water" being thrown.

I'm still debating if it was supposed to be poetic?

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Are doctors supposed to be based based on the neonatal unit ? Aren’t they covering several different places ? Like rooms where women are giving birth, operating theatres, and the units with babies on them ?

I think this is exactly the point that is relevant about baby C. The 12 June collapse is the one which Dr Evans said in seven out of his eight reports for this baby was caused by a deliberately injected air embolism.

Was there a collapse though? There was no resuscitation that I could find.

And then, in the eighth report, he changed his mind and said that 12 June was CPAP belly.

Maybe it was only CPAP belly because the baby did not collapse or need to be resuscitated on June 12th afternoon. Unlike her later collapses.
Maybe her attacks started later on, and the earlier health issues were natural and caused by her being a tiny, 3 day old preemie?

So the incident was very relevant and indeed formed part of the prosecution’s reason for originally charging LL for baby C. If you look back at the charges when she was first arrested, the murder charge for baby C was for a period beginning, 12 June 2015.

 

[Sundial]

I found much of it really confused and all over the place, so far anyway.

I strongly agree. Like Spaghetti soup he was referring to at the start; Ive found it to be like some weird eatery gone wrong, sauce splattered over the tablecloth, tangled up mess and down your best t-shirt etc…
all kind of like a distraction leaving everyone scratching their head wondering if they’ve walked into the wrong place.

I struggled with it today and all I could wonder was what he might be having for dinner later.

JMO

 

[marynnu]

It is a saying from my country

I love hearing your sayings Dotta.

 

[CS2C]

Dr Myers appears to have all the answers, no need for experts.

 

[Sundial]

Dr Myers appears to have all the answers, no need for experts.

I think thts a bit harsh on the plumber.. to be fair

 

[Dotta]

Dr Myers appears to have all the answers, no need for experts.

Renaissance man

JMO

 

[MachinaCollecta]

I think thts a bit harsh on the plumber.. to be fair

That plumber is the only one he hasn’t thrown under the bus! I bet he went out and bought a shiny new plunger this week in celebration.

 

[katydid23]

I think this is exactly the point that is relevant about baby C. The 12 June collapse is the one which Dr Evans said in seven out of his eight reports for this baby was caused by a deliberately injected air embolism.

I am trying to figure out what you mean by a 'collapse' on the afternoon of June 12th, 2015.

That is the date that Meyers refers to as one of the incidents left off the spreadsheet:
"Mr Myers says there is a 'harm event' for Child C, as identified by experts, on June 12, 2015, which is not in the sequence of events, and is not on the list."

I read every testimony I could find about June 12th 2015 and Baby C, and found no reference to an actual collapse. Here is the nurse in charge of her on June 12th:

Dr Davis says she does not recall the previous night shift, but from her nursing notes on the night shift of June 12-13 she recalls the observations for Child C at 9.20pm on June 12, 2015.
The notes include "suspected sepsis" and "jaundice" on a list of ongoing problems. The latter is, the court hears, "very common" in premature babies.

Dr Davis added that, at that point, there had been 'no desaturations' or 'bradys' (bradycardia).
Child C was 'NBM' (nil by mouth) due to "billious aspirates".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 3​

Yvonne Griffiths, CoCH Neonatal Unit Deputy Manager & Senior Nurse -
Re. Child C's medical notes for Day-Shift 12th June 2015

The note referring to bile found on the blanket and 2mls of black stained fluid being aspirated from June 12 at 6.30pm is referred to.
Mr Myers asks if dark bile is a matter for concern.
"Any bile is a matter of caution," Ms Griffiths replies, and feeds would be stopped as a precaution.
She added Child C did not desaturate when vomiting a small amount of fluid. She agrees it was important for close monitoring on Child C.
Mr Myers: "It is a potentially serious issue, isn't it?"
Ms Griffiths: "Yes - and I did get the doctor to review."

The note is written on June 14 on reflection notes from June 12, with care from 8am that day.
The notes record "assistance with ventilation by NCPAP", with oxygen levels varying from 37% to 25%.
Child C was "unsettled at times". Ms Griffiths said he "only loved to be held by parents in a kangaroo style".
The long line was administered, and at 6.30pm, 'bile noted on blanket'. Ms Griffiths said with any baby there is a worry with introducing feeds too early. On this occasion bile came out "spontaneously".
Ms Griffiths said the naso-gastric tube was aspirated as a matter of procedure and 2mls of black stained fluid appeared.
Child C was "too unsettled" for a lumbar puncture - plan to reassess later".


Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27


SO WE HAVE BOTH MEDICAL CAREGIVERS IN CHARGE OF BABY C, TESTIFYING THERE WAS NO COLLAPSE OR BRADYS OR SEVERE DESATURATIONS on June 12th---not until early morning, JUNE 13TH

And then, in the eighth report, he changed his mind and said that 12 June was CPAP belly.

Maybe it was just CPAP belly because there was no collapse or resuscitation needed.

So the incident was very relevant and indeed formed part of the prosecution’s reason for originally charging LL for baby C. If you look back at the charges when she was first arrested, the murder charge for baby C was for a period beginning, 12 June 2015.

Evidently they changed their minds because the event did not meet the criteria?

 

[BabaVanga]

Hi I haven’t seen any updates at all today I’ve been super extremely stressed :/ how did the defence do? Can anyone give a short summary?

 

[Parker Knoll]

As they say:

"The dogs are barking
But..
The caravan is moving on"

This is my comment on this particular matter.


JMO

You have won the internet today Dotta !