VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #30

[WaxLyrical]

Very peculiar that they were all operating on the premise that next week court wouldn’t be sitting. I wonder why, but I do suspect it’s something to do with the discharged juror, perhaps scheduled surgery or something similar.

Alternatively they might be expecting to issue verdicts today! And the judge is just covering all bases to make sure they’re available next week.

Who know, but this case just feels unreal!

 

[Becky53]

Good luck to them in rearranging any appointment especially a Doctor’s appointment in a 5 min smoke break (unless they have the MyGp app).

 

[Sarahlou]

I'm just hoping this gets wrapped up soon before any more problems.

 

[Tortoise]

I think I can make a guess at what's happened here, and I don't think we can tell anything about how close they are to verdicts from this.

I think Joe/Jane Bloggs, juror no.12, had a very good reason to be absent next week, and as the time approached the jury were not given any guidance on how the court would handle it, also for very good reason. So the remaining jurors, having seen how the judge had before tried so hard to keep all 12 together, by adjourning, they all decided they would most likely get next week off and made personal arrangements so as not to waste the time off.

The judge, I believe, would not have told them until 4pm that he was going to discharge the juror, because if they knew in advance it could have forced them all to decide to prematurely or unnaturally rush to complete all their verdicts by 4pm, so as to include the juror. Similarly, I think he wouldn't leave the 12th juror with them on Friday (today) also to avoid a pressured environment for deliberations, and potentially an appeal issue if they returned verdicts today. Hence he decided to act on it when he did.

Whether they are ready to deliver verdcts very soon or not, wouldn't have impacted them making appointments for next week, if this is what has happened.

MOO

 

[bobbymkii]

I'm thinking the discharged juror was not just unavailable for next week, but for a significant time beyond that as well

 

[Marantz4250b]

I have to admit this is utterly bizarre.
A very precarious situation imo.

Agreed. This whole situation just seems to be at the extreme end of utterly bizarre now!

 

[crystalline]

I am worried how long this is going on for now, not to criticize the jury - they have had a tough job and still have. My main concern is the outcome.

By this I mean...

When a group of people are together for such a long period of time, (much longer than should have been already) natter, clicks form, people are liked, tolerated or hated - I just hope we have a mature set of judges who aren't swayed to much by others who may be more of an overpowering character within the group. The fact that three of them all had appointments next week is concerning as to how, when and who provided the information that it's unlikely to be sitting next week and furthermore instead of confirming for themselves have gone along with it...

If of course that is the case.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

On the contrary. People seem to be forgetting this trial was supposed to have an end date of April/May.

That there are still 11 committed jurors in place is imo a borderline miracle. And there would have been 12 had life unfortunately not gotten in the way of the discharged juror. And all this despite the trial period going 4 months (and rising) over the expected end date. They deserve nothing but praise and empathy for committment well above and beyond the call of duty.

Instead, gob-smackingly, they're being criticised and berated and ridiculed and held to a ridiculously high standard, one that those of us not on the jury would not remotely meet.

Yes, they were told the trial would last until May at the latest. They have sat there day after day since October. I would think many had plans for the summer which they've now had to cancel or appts they need to reschedule.

This has been a complicated trial with 22 counts to consider and a lot of medical and circumstantial evidence!

 

[Kittybunny]

<modsnip - quoted post was deleted by the member>
I am an eternal optimist, and though the latest news has been discouraging, I still have faith in this jury. They have been through so much for so long, I cannot imagine that they don't want to see it through.

If we don't have a verdict by the end of next week though, I will join you in your "this dough is doomed" outlook for sure!

 

[Tortoise]

I am keeping the faith. It wavers at times, but I'm back to feeling confident that they are working steadily on this. They are not asking stupid questions, they haven't indicated problems, the judge hasn't issued a majority direction and seems to be solidly reinforcing the message of no pressure of time. They have had disruptions with absences. I'm hoping that situation was linked to the same juror who has been discharged and they can now feel somewhat relieved about how any uncertainty or disruption of deliberations was affecting their fellow juror and them all. JMO

 

[Parker Knoll]

Today is the anniversary of the death of Baby E.
Let’s hope the jury digs deep.
JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I am an eternal optimist, and though the latest news has been discouraging, I still have faith in this jury. They have been through so much for so long, I cannot imagine that they don't want to see it through.

If we don't have a verdict by the end of next week though, I will join you in your "this dough is doomed" outlook for sure!

There will be no cake until the work is done.

<modsnip>

I haven't lost faith in this jury and the work they have put into this trial.

The verdict will come. We just need to be patient.

 

[marynnu]

I am keeping the faith. It wavers at times, but I'm back to feeling confident that they are working steadily on this. They are not asking stupid questions, they haven't indicated problems, the judge hasn't issued a majority direction and seems to be solidly reinforcing the message of no pressure of time. They have had disruptions with absences. I'm hoping that situation was linked to the same juror who has been discharged and they can now feel somewhat relieved about how any uncertainty or disruption of deliberations was affecting their fellow juror and them all. JMO

I was starting to think it was just me who doesn't feel overly concerned!

 

[ColourPurple]

I was starting to think it was just me who doesn't feel overly concerned!

Nah I'm the same. I think the whole thing about them assuming they'd have next week off is bizarre but I don't think there's anything to be worried about with the progress of the trial itself.

 

[Dcflag]

No concerns here. It’s 22 charges. 22 complicated charges. I don’t feel like the amount of deliberation is particularly long for the amount of charges or the complexity of the case. Regardless of how much they must want to get on with their lives, it’s a testament to them that they’re still turning up day after day.

No matter how much you want it to be over, you can’t hurry deliberations. It just doesn’t work that way.

Being such a long trial, there’s bound to be life issues get in the way. I just don’t think anything we’ve seen so far is unusual and I’m still pretty satisfied the jury are on course.

 

[Moll]

I think I can make a guess at what's happened here, and I don't think we can tell anything about how close they are to verdicts from this.

I think Joe/Jane Bloggs, juror no.12, had a very good reason to be absent next week, and as the time approached the jury were not given any guidance on how the court would handle it, also for very good reason. So the remaining jurors, having seen how the judge had before tried so hard to keep all 12 together, by adjourning, they all decided they would most likely get next week off and made personal arrangements so as not to waste the time off.

The judge, I believe, would not have told them until 4pm that he was going to discharge the juror, because if they knew in advance it could have forced them all to decide to prematurely or unnaturally rush to complete all their verdicts by 4pm, so as to include the juror. Similarly, I think he wouldn't leave the 12th juror with them on Friday (today) also to avoid a pressured environment for deliberations, and potentially an appeal issue if they returned verdicts today. Hence he decided to act on it when he did.

Whether they are ready to deliver verdcts very soon or not, wouldn't have impacted them making appointments for next week, if this is what has happened.

MOO

Thanks, Tortoise - the voice of reason!

Whether your scenario is precisely correct or not it seems to me that something similar must have been going on in a difficult situation.

 

[Supernovae]

I was going to log in to say what Tortoise and WaxLyrical have said. I wonder if it's to do with the discharged juror and something unavoidable they may have had next week. The other jurors presumed that it would be accommodated, so booked their own appointments around it, and then it wasn't. It would explain why all these appointments came out this morning and why the judge characterised the juror being discharged as "inevitable." A surgery would make the most sense, and also explain the persistent prior absences, either for preparatory appointments or because of the underlying health condition. Emigration wouldn't as the other jurors would have be presume they would be discharged.

 

[Jw192]

Oh I agree that you can't rush deliberations nor that there's any evidence for what I said, that's why I expressed "coming across" as it's merely my opinion. You can't rush deliberations but you can do your best to ensure that you try and avoid any appointments or anything else that will again delay deliberations y'know? All of these Monday mornings off due to juror absences, all of the delays and the missed time etc... It just seems (to me) that there's something not quite 100% here with it all. There are trials where deliberations have taken much longer than where it's at here, however they haven't had as many absences or inconsistencies '-'
The timings as well, such short deliberation days, which of course is no fault of the jurors.

<modsnip> ... have to remember as well that what we get told is a fraction of what is actually occuring and there could (likely) be super valid reasons for all the deliberation time delays and absences, but just meh I keep thinking of all of the parents, the coppers, AND the jurors... Everyone, and just hope that a verdict is reached and everybody doesn't have to go through this all again.

 

[bbsaz]

Seems legit, as DM podcast lady has also confirmed it:

 

[Parker Knoll]

I’m off out with Chester.
Hardly any WiFi down by the canal so it will absolutely come in within the next 90 mins.
A watched pot never boils as my mum always says.