UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #6

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:14pm

A series of text messages to and from Letby's phone are shown to the court.

3:17pm

Ben Myers KC asks to clarify that the nursing notes made, which have been gone through in 'broken up parts' in the sequence of events, are actually made of larger notes. The intelligence analyst agrees.
Mr Myers also refers to the sequence of events showing Letby searched for the mum of Child E and Child F several times on Facebook in the weeks and months after Child E died. He asks if it is correct Letby also searched for the names of parents who are not part of this case. The intelligence analyst agrees.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

And as I actually said, if he'd said to the mother "do you agree that perceptions of babies' cries can be subjective?" he would have given the jury cause to doubt, without cruelty towards a bereaved mother who allegedly witnessed her own baby's murder.

There is no one more equipped to interpret the cries of a baby than his own mother. Her perception should be taken as of the highest integrity.

This is what I was trying to say before. A mother is equipped with an extra boost of hormones after birth, one of these hormones makes them super sensitive to THEIR babies cries and the severity of them. A cry when they are hungry, wet, uncomfortable sends a signal to the mother's brain to act. Any more severe crying/screaming, sends the mothers brain into emergency mode. (Mother of 5 children- one in NICU for 4 months)

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

"He asks if it is correct Letby also searched for the names of parents who are not part of this case. The intelligence analyst agrees."

At least we've had a bit of clarity regarding this as I know it's something we've discussed. I wonder if she looks up almost everyone or if those other searches were also for children who passed but aren't part of this case.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

This is the kind of thing that makes me so puzzled about this case and, if guilty, what her motives were. If it's attention seeking and "me, me, me" type motivations then the text from the colleague is a wide open goal for her to make it all about her and bathe in the pity of others. She does the exact opposite though.

All very strange.

I read that particular reply as being defensive, as the run of 'bad luck' comment paid heed to the other recent deaths.

 

[Marantz4250b]

"He asks if it is correct Letby also searched for the names of parents who are not part of this case. The intelligence analyst agrees."

At least we've had a bit of clarity regarding this as I know it's something we've discussed. I wonder if she looks up almost everyone or if those other searches were also for children who passed but aren't part of this case.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

It was actually mentioned right near the start of the case that she'd searched lots of people including people not involved in these cases.

I think she very commonly looks up parents names. What would be interesting to know (although we never will) is whether any of these are parents of babies who also had collapses or unusual medical events or whether they were just random people. In any event, the more people she's FB searched who aren't involved here the less significant the searches of the relevant ones are, in my opinion.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:31pm

The text message sent from a colleague of Letby to Letby's phone at 8.58am on August 4 says: "You ok? Just heard about [Child E]. Did you have him? Sending hugs xx"
Letby responds: "News travels fast - who told you? Yeah I had them both, was horrible."
The colleague responded that she had been informed by someone at the handover 'told me just now'. 'Had he been getting poorly or was it sudden?'
Letby responds Child E had a 'massive gastrointestinal haemorrhage'.
The colleague said Child E 'had always struggled feeding'.
Letby responds that Child E was 'IUGR [Intrauterine growth restriction] and REDF [Reversal of umbilical artery end-diastolic flow]' and believed Child E was 'high risk'.
She added: "I feel numb".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[squish]

"He asks if it is correct Letby also searched for the names of parents who are not part of this case. The intelligence analyst agrees."

At least we've had a bit of clarity regarding this as I know it's something we've discussed. I wonder if she looks up almost everyone or if those other searches were also for children who passed but aren't part of this case.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Yeah. I strongly believe, if guilty, she would have interfered with far more babies than we would ever know. What about the ones who survived without incident? When her alleged attacks didn't work as planned, or the baby managed to withstand it? When she was interrupted? What if she just enjoyed attacking babies and didn't always want to allegedly kill them, just assault or temporarily hurt them? There may be many other incidents whose evidence is not strong enough for her to have been charged.

I would like to know if she ever looked up the families of healthier babies who had no issues.

It could be also that she just enjoys suffering, and enjoys looking up the families of tragic babies, whether or not their ailments were (allegedly) deliberately inflicted, or fully natural.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

It was actually mentioned right near the start of the case that she'd searched lots of people including people not involved in these cases.

I think she very commonly looks up parents names. What would be interesting to know (although we never will) is whether any of these are parents of babies who also had collapses or unusual medical events or whether they were just random people. In any event, the more people she's FB searched who aren't involved here the less significant the searches of the relevant ones are, in my opinion.

Was it? I thought we still weren't entirely sure but this thread moves fast at time.

True, but if she looks up almost all parents why say in police interview she doesn't remember doing so? If it's commonplace for her to search for basically everybody then you would remember doing so or at least say 'I don't remember specific parents but I do often search them'

Also, hasn't she searched for parents of babies for which she was not the designated nurse?

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Yeah. I strongly believe, if guilty, she would have interfered with far more babies than we would ever know. What about the ones who survived without incident? When her alleged attacks didn't work as planned, or the baby managed to withstand it? When she was interrupted? What if she just enjoyed attacking babies and didn't always want to allegedly kill them, just assault or temporarily hurt them? There may be many other incidents whose evidence is not strong enough for her to have been charged.

I would like to know if she ever looked up the families of healthier babies who had no issues.

It could be also that she just enjoys suffering, and enjoys looking up the families of tragic babies, whether or not their ailments were (allegedly) deliberately inflicted, or fully natural.

It's all a bit dark isn't it. Admittedly I do like a little facebook snoop every now and again, exes, old friends, people I don't like etc. But it feels like she's getting something out of it, checking their facebook so close to the incident and then on days like Christmas. It's like she's hoping to see or read condolences, or posts of grief from the parents.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I read that particular reply as being defensive, as the run of 'bad luck' comment paid heed to the other recent deaths.

I supposed it could be read in either way. It sounds an entirely normal thing to say though for someone who's innocent.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

This is the kind of thing that makes me so puzzled about this case and, if guilty, what her motives were. If it's attention seeking and "me, me, me" type motivations then the text from the colleague is a wide open goal for her to make it all about her and bathe in the pity of others. She does the exact opposite though.

All very strange.

My opinion is that, if guilty, it seems to be from boredom. I know this sounds too simple and not something a person would actively murder for but if we look at text messages, there have been a few times when it has been mentioned how quiet the unit is, or how boring just feedings are. This is just my own opinion but it is an opinion i have had for a while.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:38pm

At 7.55pm, Jennifer Jones-Key messaged Lucy Letby: "Hey how's you?"
Letby responds: "Not so good, we lost [Child E] overnight."
The response: "That is sad. You are on a terrible run at the moment. Were you in [room] 1?"
Letby: "I had him and [Child F]"
Ms Jones-Key: "That is not good, you need a break..."
Letby: "It's the luck of the draw...unfortunately."
Ms Jones-Key: "You do seem to be having some very bad luck..."
Letby: "Not a lot I can do really - he had a massive haemorrhage, could have happened to any baby really."
Ms Jones-Key says Letby "did everything you could", adding she had seen a haemorrhage in babies before, and was 'horrible' to see.
Letby replies: "This was abdominal", and she had previously only seen pulmonary.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[notsure]

Did Baby F survive?

 

[squish]

Did Baby F survive?

Yes, he was the (allegedly) insulin poisoned twin that survived.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Was it? I thought we still weren't entirely sure but this thread moves fast at time.

True, but if she looks up almost all parents why say in police interview she doesn't remember doing so? If it's commonplace for her to search for basically everybody then you would remember doing so or at least say 'I don't remember specific parents but I do often search them'

Also, hasn't she searched for parents of babies for which she was not the designated nurse?

If she's doing it very regularly, and she clearly is, then I can totally accept why she'd lie about it as it's likely to be seen as highly unethical. She may be entirely innocent but have some sort of OCD condition which compels her to do stuff like this. Some people find very difficult, psychologically, to be in the position of not knowing something or how people are doing. It's weird but isn't criminal.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:44pm

On August 9, at 10.17pm, Letby messages a colleague saying she had said goodbye to the parents of Child E and Child F, and said they had cried and both hugged her, saying they would never forget the care the staff provided.
The colleague responds: "It's heartbreaking, but you have done your job to the highest standard with compassion and professionalism."
The colleague added: "You should feel very proud of yourself."
Letby responded she felt sad after what had happened.
The colleague adds: "They know everything possible was done" and was in Child E's "best interests".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Sundial]

I find this discussion interesting;

Letby responds that Child E was 'IUGR [Intrauterine growth restriction] and REDF [Reversal of umbilical artery end-diastolic flow]' and believed Child E was 'high risk'.
She added: "I feel numb".

She alleged earlier in police interview she didn’t know exactly what air embolism is, yet seems to know (as you would expect in her position) other medical terminology and various other conditions.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

If she's doing it very regularly, and she clearly is, then I can totally accept why she'd lie about it as it's likely to be seen as highly unethical. She may be entirely innocent but have some sort of OCD condition which compels her to do stuff like this. Some people find very difficult, psychologically, to be in the position of not knowing something or how people are doing. It's weird but isn't criminal.

Exactly, it's not criminal, so why not just admit it? It's weirder to pretend you don't remember ever doing it, then just fess up to something which is unethical but not illegal. It looks worse to pretend you've never done it.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:50pm

The court is shown evidence that Letby searched for the mum and dad of Child E and Child F on Facebook nine times in the following months, the vast majority for the mother. The first of the searches was on August 6 at 7.58pm, and one of the searches is at 11.26pm on December 25.
The final two searches were made in January 2016, the last on January 10 at 11.03pm.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

It's all a bit dark isn't it. Admittedly I do like a little facebook snoop every now and again, exes, old friends, people I don't like etc. But it feels like she's getting something out of it, checking their facebook so close to the incident and then on days like Christmas. It's like she's hoping to see or read condolences, or posts of grief from the parents.

It was mentioned a few posts back that the Christmas one was at 23:26. When it was first mentioned weeks ago I'd assumed that it was during the day like Christmas morning or something. I can actually see searching on the late evening as being a bit more rational, I think; maybe she'd felt a bit down, had too much to drink, lonely if she was on her own and became depressed over the things which had happened over the year? Or maybe it's some weirdly sick thrill she gets gloating over children she's murdered? I really don't know but literally almost everything mentioned so far has a potentially totally innocent explanation to it.