UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #35

[Sweeper2000]

For the love of god …. If these “ notes “ were made by letby under the advice of a professional then why didn’t she say so in the dock ? Ethics aside as we are a bit too late for that now.
I had said myself a million years ago that maybe she had scribbled stuff down whilst talking with people ( possibly on the phone ) as the notes are so jumbled almost like they are written at different times and all crammed onto the same post it notes but she said NOTHING !
There were so many times she could of explained or semi explained her actions to the jury but did not and I found this incredulous -
Nearly 7 years to come up with “ I collect paper “ will never not be utterly baffling.
With the exception of the plumber no experts were offered up by her defence for a very good reason.

I find it curious too. Did the cat have her tongue? I would guess she had been advised to not mention therapy?

 

[Parker Knoll]

There is no reason she could not of mentioned anything about having therapy in the dock if she had.
Tbh I would have totally expected her to have had mountains of it if I had sat on that jury.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I'm not so sure. The biggest prejudice in the world is MH issues. I would be cautious definitely.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Perhaps an article from the British medical association will allow you to hear why professionals aren’t just accepting the verdict as the end of the trial

Letby disaster epitomises flaws in NHS

The tragic events of the Lucy Letby case show the urgent need for an independent regulator for non-clinical managers

www.bma.org.uk

The verdict is the end of the trial.

I have great respect for the BMA and whatever experts they can present but that doesn't mean that they automatically get to second-guess and criticise legal cases they were not part of; the trial, including jury deliberations, took up ten months, involved probably thousands of people in one way or another, and I expect ran up a bill into the tens of millions of pounds. That's without considering the retrial on one count and an appeal.

Moreover, it was splashed all over every conceivable media outlet for the majority of that time.

Lucy Letby was first arrested on 3rd June 2018 - over six years ago - and will have had excellent legal representation since the minute she arrived at Blacon police station.

The defence had every opportunity over the course of many years to find the very best medical and medico-legal specialists on the planet and did indeed have one. In the event they called......the plumber!

Sorry but the BMA may be a highly regarded and prestigious institution but they have no more right to be heard than anyone else. They had years to interject with whatever evidence or assistance they felt necessary or to point out any errors in the evidence to either side. Why are they only shoving their oar in now?

The place for raising objections or voicing opinions is a court of law. You don't get to waltz in after the event and start cherry-picking individual points for criticism like Harry Enfield's Mr You didn't wanna do that character pointing out why everyone else went wrong.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't see what it's got to do with anything anyway. These were still her thoughts, they were not dictated to her, whether it was suggested to her to do some writing or not.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I definitely agree that there were failings at the hospital, and that is what the inquiry is for. IMO it is part of how she was able to carry on for as long as she did, and I hope that management are held accountable.

Yes. These babies did not die due to medical failings, mistakes or general low standards.

They did because a serial killer murdered them. The failing by the system, the Trust and the hospital was one of allowing that serial killer to continue when she could, and should, have been stopped. Management exhibited rank incompetence - criminal incompetence, imo - in allowing the situation to continue. Someone, maybe multiple people, should be in prison for that.

As always, my personal opinion only.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Not sure I can roll my eyes any more than I already have recently about this case but here goes

The fact seems to have escaped them that LL took the stand and got to tell the jury, in her own words, exactly why she wrote the notes and what they meant. IMO she would still have been convicted without the note and would not have been convicted if all they’d had was the note.

Exactly.

I actually agree in that they are somewhat ambiguous in nature and, yes, I think she did write them in response to the obviously enormous level of stress she was under.

We have to remember, tough, that these were written before her first arrest so she hadn't been formally accused of killing babies yet and I don't think that anyone had seriously suggested it to her. I think she was even still at work in admin right up to her arrest. That being the case, to my mind they come over as very extreme things for an innocent person to be writing and probably do lean towards a genuinely guilty conscience. I agree that they aren't that condemning in the great scheme of things.

And, as you rightly point out - she had every opportunity to put whatever evidence she wanted before the jury. Ben Myers could have spent weeks just asking her about the specific nature of the notes, why they were written and what their meaning was yet he didn't. He could have called Kathryn De Berger to give evidence about them - he didn't. He will have had a good reason for everything he did or did not do as regards her defence. He is one of the most well reputed lawyers in the country and securing not guilty verdicts in one of the longest, most complicated and most sensational murder trials in British history would have been a crowning glory for him. Yet she's now serving a whole life order as Britain's most prolific child killer in over a century!

 

[Sweeper2000]

It doesn't change anything for me really aside from quite seriously damaging the thought the prosecutions allegations of them being a confession. If she had of been up front about that it would have been in her favour I think.

 

[Marantz4250b]

There is no reason she could not of mentioned anything about having therapy in the dock if she had.
Tbh I would have totally expected her to have had mountains of it if I had sat on that jury.

Indeed. She could bring up anything she wanted.

I do wonder why she didn't, however. Of course, if she had done that then would that then open the door to everything that went on in therapy? Perhaps there is a lot there would have done her no favours, if you see what I'm getting at????

 

[Sweeper2000]

It could have been a play by Mr myers, "this baseless accusation by the prosecution of these notes being a confession is proven false and made up to fit the prosecutions
Story as I can tell you and here is the signature of Ms letbys counsellor to do exactly as she has done and write any passing thought onto paper as we can see she has done with these countless meaningless notes and it is also known by them that this is what she was instructed to do". Damaging to the prosecutions story and credibility imo

Would also have served if he had said this was written under guidance and at a time of extreme stress during the time of her being placed on clerical, you can see by these other notes that they are out of character.