GUILTY UK - Olivia Pratt-Korbel, 9, shot dead, Liverpool, 22 Aug 2022 *arrest*

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The Crown Court
at Manchester


Daily Courtroom List for Monday 03 April 2023
FINAL 3​
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MANCHESTER
Court 1 - sitting at 02:00 pm
THE HONOURABLE MRS JUSTICE YIP
THIS SENTENCING HEARING MIGHT BE RECORDED AND BROADCAST

Court 1 - sitting at 02:00 pm
The Honourable Mrs Justice Yip
NOT BEFORE 2:00 pm
For Sentence
CP Case******* ******05C10085522***** **********
Direction made under Section 46 of the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999, Defendant to be Produced





www.courtserve.net
 
"The police have vowed to go after his drug money.

Since Cashman's arrest, Sweeney and her children are believed to have returned to the council house where she grew up."


Now this disgusts me. I believe in the the welfare state and social housing for those that need it. She has allegedly been living in a £450,000 house and her boyfriend has admitted earning 5k a week but now she's back in the council house?.
Get a job!
 
I hope for a serious statement in the sentencing of Cashman today. This case is eligible for whole life (it doesn’t require previous offences and a single conviction of murder is sufficient, especially of a child — the guidelines simply say a whole life order may be an appropriate starting point where there is more than one victim, but those aren’t strict criteria).

However, I don’t think Cashman will get that. Ultimately Olivia was not the intended victim. But I am hoping for at least 35 years and maybe 40 given the use of a gun, the premeditation and Olivia’s age.
 
I assume this is the most up-to-date guidance. His sentence will exceed 30 years with aggravating factors, certainly, but I don’t think it will be a whole life order. I would be very happy to be wrong about that.



(1)If—

(a)
the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is exceptionally high, and

(b)the offender was aged 21 or over when the offence was committed,

the appropriate starting point is a whole life order.

(2)Cases that would normally fall within sub-paragraph (1)(a) include—

(a)the murder of two or more persons, where each murder involves any of the following—

(i)a substantial degree of premeditation or planning,

(ii)the abduction of the victim, or

(iii)sexual or sadistic conduct,

(b)the murder of a child if involving the abduction of the child or sexual or sadistic motivation,

(c)the murder of a police officer or prison officer in the course of his or her duty, where the offence was committed on or after 13 April 2015,

(d)a murder done for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause, or

(e)a murder by an offender previously convicted of murder.



3(1)If—

(a)the case does not fall within paragraph 2(1) but the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is particularly high, and

(b)the offender was aged 18 or over when the offence was committed,

the appropriate starting point, in determining the minimum term, is 30 years.



9Aggravating factors
(additional to those mentioned in paragraphs 2(2), 3(2) and 4(2)) that may be relevant to the offence of murder include—

(a)a significant degree of planning or premeditation,

(b)the fact that the victim was particularly vulnerable because of age or disability,

(c)mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death,

(d)the abuse of a position of trust,

(e)the use of duress or threats against another person to facilitate the commission of the offence,

(f)the fact that victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty, and

(g)concealment, destruction or dismemberment of the body.


10Mitigating factors that may be relevant to the offence of murder include—

(a)an intention to cause serious bodily harm rather than to kill,

(b)lack of premeditation,

(c)the fact that the offender suffered from any mental disorder or mental disability which (although not falling within section 2(1) of the Homicide Act 1957) lowered the offender’s degree of culpability,

(d)the fact that the offender was provoked (for example, by prolonged stress) but, in the case of a murder committed before 4 October 2010, in a way not amounting to a defence of provocation,

(e)the fact that the offender acted to any extent in self-defence or, in the case of a murder committed on or after 4 October 2010, in fear of violence,

(f)a belief by the offender that the murder was an act of mercy, and

(g)the age of the offender.
 
I think it'll be around 44 years. The most similar crime I can think of is the murder of Rhys Jones and Mercer got 22 years from a starting point of 12 because of his age, whereas Cashman will have a starting point of 30. There's a lot more premeditation and planning for Cashman and 2 attempted murder convictions. I'd hope for more though, but I'm good with anything 40+.
 
Now this disgusts me. I believe in the the welfare state and social housing for those that need it. She has allegedly been living in a £450,000 house and her boyfriend has admitted earning 5k a week but now she's back in the council house?.
Get a job!
Total trash IMO.

I assume this is the most up-to-date guidance. His sentence will exceed 30 years with aggravating factors, certainly, but I don’t think it will be a whole life order. I would be very happy to be wrong about that.



(1)If—

(a)
the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is exceptionally high, and

(b)the offender was aged 21 or over when the offence was committed,

the appropriate starting point is a whole life order.

(2)Cases that would normally fall within sub-paragraph (1)(a) include—

(a)the murder of two or more persons, where each murder involves any of the following—

(i)a substantial degree of premeditation or planning,

(ii)the abduction of the victim, or

(iii)sexual or sadistic conduct,

(b)the murder of a child if involving the abduction of the child or sexual or sadistic motivation,

(c)the murder of a police officer or prison officer in the course of his or her duty, where the offence was committed on or after 13 April 2015,

(d)a murder done for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause, or

(e)a murder by an offender previously convicted of murder.



3(1)If—

(a)the case does not fall within paragraph 2(1) but the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is particularly high, and

(b)the offender was aged 18 or over when the offence was committed,

the appropriate starting point, in determining the minimum term, is 30 years.



9Aggravating factors
(additional to those mentioned in paragraphs 2(2), 3(2) and 4(2)) that may be relevant to the offence of murder include—

(a)a significant degree of planning or premeditation,

(b)the fact that the victim was particularly vulnerable because of age or disability,

(c)mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death,

(d)the abuse of a position of trust,

(e)the use of duress or threats against another person to facilitate the commission of the offence,

(f)the fact that victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty, and

(g)concealment, destruction or dismemberment of the body.


10Mitigating factors that may be relevant to the offence of murder include—

(a)an intention to cause serious bodily harm rather than to kill,

(b)lack of premeditation,

(c)the fact that the offender suffered from any mental disorder or mental disability which (although not falling within section 2(1) of the Homicide Act 1957) lowered the offender’s degree of culpability,

(d)the fact that the offender was provoked (for example, by prolonged stress) but, in the case of a murder committed before 4 October 2010, in a way not amounting to a defence of provocation,

(e)the fact that the offender acted to any extent in self-defence or, in the case of a murder committed on or after 4 October 2010, in fear of violence,

(f)a belief by the offender that the murder was an act of mercy, and

(g)the age of the offender.
I don’t think Cashman will get whole life but it’s important to remember these are just examples in the legislation of where a whole life order is a suitable starting point. They aren’t hard and fast rules. For instance, no-one had anticipated a serving police officer using his warrant card to abduct a member of the public, so although it’s not on the list, Wayne Couzens got a whole life sentence in part due to that factor.

As Cashman killed a child, he invokes one of the criteria — but absent the intention to hurt a child and with no sadism etc, I doubt whole life. On the flip side he used a gun, killed Olivia in her own home and clearly didn’t care who he shot.
 
Shouldn't he be treated like a domestic terrorist?
I mean - running with the illegal weapon in the streets like a maniac, endangering innocent people, killing a member of the public.

JMO
 
I agree with the above. On paper it's a starting point of 30 years. However, this is someone who ran through the streets of a family neighbourhood shooting 2 guns randomly. I imagine it isn't proven he is a gun for hire, but he's a self-admitted drug dealer and it can be logically assumed the shooting incidents were connected to his drug crimes. There are multiple aggravating factors and no mitigation. I'm guessing they will want to make an example of him, plus encourage more people to come forward like the ex did, so possibly...a whole life tariff? It is totally my opinion but I feel with WC they decided he had to have a whole life tariff then worked backwards to justify it.

Perhaps the judge could give him a whole life tariff based on (1) (a) and (b), basically the seriousness is exceptionally high. Shooting round a random door several times could constitute this. All IMO. I am also curious if he has any previous convictions. I would be surprised with his lifestyle if he didn't have any, even from when he was younger, for petty crimes.

(1)If—

(a)the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is exceptionally high, and

(b)the offender was aged 21 or over when the offence was committed,

the appropriate starting point is a whole life order.
 
Now this disgusts me. I believe in the the welfare state and social housing for those that need it. She has allegedly been living in a £450,000 house and her boyfriend has admitted earning 5k a week but now she's back in the council house?.
Get a job!
I’m sure I read in another article it (the “council house”) is her parents’ home and she is staying with them. IMO as I don’t have a link to hand.
 
Shouldn't he be treated like a domestic terrorist?
I mean - running with the illegal weapon in the streets like a maniac, endangering innocent people, killing a member of the public.

JMO
I would like the “message sending” here to gangsters to be if you shoot a child when trying to kill someone, you don’t get to see daylight. Our system isn’t totally set up for that but it’s possible the judge says he never gets out — but think 38-45 years minimum is more likely.

Then again, Olivia was a totally blameless child killed by a career criminal hellbent on murder, in her own home. Whole life can be given and I would love it to be given here.
 
I agree with the above. On paper it's a starting point of 30 years. However, this is someone who ran through the streets of a family neighbourhood shooting 2 guns randomly. I imagine it isn't proven he is a gun for hire, but he's a self-admitted drug dealer and it can be logically assumed the shooting incidents were connected to his drug crimes. There are multiple aggravating factors and no mitigation. I'm guessing they will want to make an example of him, plus encourage more people to come forward like the ex did, so possibly...a whole life tariff? It is totally my opinion but I feel with WC they decided he had to have a whole life tariff then worked backwards to justify it.

Perhaps the judge could give him a whole life tariff based on (1) (a) and (b), basically the seriousness is exceptionally high. Shooting round a random door several times could constitute this. All IMO. I am also curious if he has any previous convictions. I would be surprised with his lifestyle if he didn't have any, even from when he was younger, for petty crimes.

(1)If—

(a)the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is exceptionally high, and

(b)the offender was aged 21 or over when the offence was committed,

the appropriate starting point is a whole life order
Yes, there is one criterion for a whole life order: the offence is sufficiently serious. That’s it. It doesn’t matter how many victims, the age of the victims, etc — just whether the crime is “serious” enough. The guidelines add some context as to when a whole life order might be a starting point, but they aren’t binding. So, when Couzens was sentenced, the whole offence was what was looked at. He had pleaded guilty but a police officer carrying out a “fake arrest” was utterly beyond the pale, in context.

It would be a leap in sentencing trends for Cashman to get whole life, but it isn’t out of the question. I don’t think he will but it isn’t off the table.
 
Yes, there is one criterion for a whole life order: the offence is sufficiently serious. That’s it. It doesn’t matter how many victims, the age of the victims, etc — just whether the crime is “serious” enough. The guidelines add some context as to when a whole life order might be a starting point, but they aren’t binding. So, when Couzens was sentenced, the whole offence was what was looked at. He had pleaded guilty but a police officer carrying out a “fake arrest” was utterly beyond the pale, in context.

It would be a leap in sentencing trends for Cashman to get whole life, but it isn’t out of the question. I don’t think he will but it isn’t off the table.

Very true. I think with WC they also brought in the adverse effects on the public's trust in the police force. With TC they could perhaps use the fact he terrorised the whole neighbourhood with his (admitted) drug dealing and was responsible for flooding the streets of Liverpool with illegal drugs, leading to wider issues with addiction etc.

There is also Paul Russell. I do feel a bit sorry for him because it seems like he was dragged into this and just drove TC from A to B and removed the clothes. I wonder if we will learn more about his role in confessing during the sentencing.
 

o_O

"Armed police form a ring of steel around court as Olivia Pratt-Korbel's murderer Thomas Cashman is sentenced today - after gangsters 'put a £250,000 bounty on his head'."

 
Very true. I think with WC they also brought in the adverse effects on the public's trust in the police force. With TC they could perhaps use the fact he terrorised the whole neighbourhood with his (admitted) drug dealing and was responsible for flooding the streets of Liverpool with illegal drugs, leading to wider issues with addiction etc.

There is also Paul Russell. I do feel a bit sorry for him because it seems like he was dragged into this and just drove TC from A to B and removed the clothes. I wonder if we will learn more about his role in confessing during the sentencing.
I think it would send an important message in the community given the spate of drug gangs shootings in Liverpool and Merseyside if Cashman were given a sentence that totally eliminated the possibility of parole. I don’t think he will get whole life, but wish he would.
 

o_O

"Armed police form a ring of steel around court as Olivia Pratt-Korbel's murderer Thomas Cashman is sentenced today - after gangsters 'put a £250,000 bounty on his head'."


Which I guess eliminates any doubt at all, if any remained, that he is guilty!
 
A source alleged to the newspaper that Cashman "knows everything" about organised crime in the area and it could benefit fellow criminals to have him silenced.

“The figure being spoken about is £250,000 to silence him — kill him.

“His knowledge and testimony could cause a world of pain for some very big criminals

The alleged bounty has been sent to criminals in the region and in jails via the Telegram app.

It is unclear where Cashman, currently in HMP Strangeways, will be moved to after he is sentenced.

Gangsters fear he may be willing to hand over information about gang crime in exchange for a better cell, welfare checks and the possibility of a prison considered softer in the coming years




 
Dbm
 
Last edited:
You know
I think Judges who deal with sentencing gangsters should stay anonymous.
Or maybe I read too many mafia novels? :rolleyes:
I still remember reading about Italian Judges killed in revenge :(
Not ever been an issue in the UK before now. That would signal an escalation we have never seen here to date and frankly I believe the whole country would go to full panic stations if it happened until the perpetrators were caught. Would also be interested to see people denying being serious gangsters while their associates are threatening or harming judges…
 

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