GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #14

[Tortoise]

snap yozzer

 

[sar2them1984]

Yes I think he was there is a picture of him turning up at court for the trial.

Yes there was which is what confused me initially as I thought that as KD had confessed he was bailed...given that JI was still on remand I assumed DD was also as they had both pleaded not guilty but actually for some reason DD gained bail and JI didn't. ..

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[sar2them1984]

Slightly random but something occurred to me today. I have an 8 year old son who has been very cuddly today. At one point I was carrying him from the living room to the kitchen and I struggled quite a lot. I passed him to hubby (a strapping 6 footer) who also said "you weigh a tonne!". We weighed him earlier and he is just over 4 stone.

My point is this. I think at 5'5" I am the same height as NM. I am also about the same weight as Becky was. It would be extremely difficult for someone my height to carry someone my weight, especially if that person were dead (ie not gripping hold or being cooperative). Add in the flight of stairs and the noise/logistics of getting a body down, then the opening of the front door, opening the car boot etc, would he have been able to do those things with a body in his arms? Then factor in NM was apparently too weak to peg washing out because of fibromyalgia. Surely he must have had help doing those things?

I can't even lift my 8 year old and she's around the same weight as your son..I'm 5"10 with a dodgy shoulder

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[cottonweaver]

edgedweller raised this query and then a poster provided the info

He admitted he and Hoare had a threesome with a woman, but said he and Hoare did not have a healthy sexual relationship because Hoare found sex painful "99 per cent of the time".

Sorry can't credit the Op as I copied it earlier and lost OP name

Anyway who thinks this is another made up story to try to diminish the extent of his *advertiser censored* use/addiction and thereby negate any sexual motive to the attack.
Bearing mind she said "normal once per week" and AFAIK never mentioned pain.

( Appreciate it could be seen as contradictory, but he's not that bright TBH)

 

[sar2them1984]

The £5000 NM had was in the form of ISAs.
As did SH have £5000 in ISAs.
I believe you have to request to cash it in. It's a savings bond.
And actually. If they both had that amount. (Please someone quote me if I'm wrong) they would of been asked if they had any savings. And provided proof of bank account/s. From the Benefits Agency. As to claim Benefits you aren't supposed to have any income. That means savings as well.

There is a threshold as to how much savings you can have before it affects your benefits. £5000 is below that threshold

Job seekers threshold is 16k
Housing benefit is from 10k
Other benefits including PIP (old dla) is 16k


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[cottonweaver]

Morning sickness?

Cheers! Der - what a moron I am, of course.

 

[Hexenb]

The 'focus' fell to Shauna - I didn't mean that my 'fight' should be 'changed' to justice.

I also didn't say that people were interested in this case 'because' Becky was attractive, I merely wondered IF there would be SO much interest IF the victim were overweight, unattractive or a drug abuser - lots of people use the word "beautiful" when they speak of Becky and as they didn't know her personally, they can only be using the term in respects of her physical looks not her personality etc

The focus has fell to SH because her story of events is ridiculous a lot of people think she is involved if she is she deserves punishment. Regardless of Beckys looks I haven't personally even considered that to be of any interest wouldn't cross my mind regardless of what a person looks like or is (lifestyle etc) the whole case is grotesque the people involved deserve the utmost punishment they deserve.

 

[Wallace]

The focus has fell to SH because her story of events is ridiculous a lot of people think she is involved if she is she deserves punishment. Regardless of Beckys looks I haven't personally even considered that to be of any interest wouldn't cross my mind regardless of what a person looks like or is (lifestyle etc) the whole case is grotesque the people involved deserve the utmost punishment they deserve.

There is no if.

 

[Tortoise]

edgedweller raised this query and then a poster provided the info

Sorry can't credit the Op as I copied it earlier and lost OP name

Anyway who thinks this is another made up story to try to diminish the extent of his *advertiser censored* use/addiction and thereby negate any sexual motive to the attack.
Bearing mind she said "normal once per week" and AFAIK never mentioned pain.

( Appreciate it could be seen as contradictory, but he's not that bright TBH)

IDK, the only thing that makes me slightly suspicious is that it isn't painful all the time, if she has a recognised condition.

Something that puzzles me more is that she says they have straight loving sex (in my own words) and he has never used violence during sex. I don't know if I believe this tbh. Sounds like it could be a cover up.

 

[cottonweaver]

Still on my catch - up of yesterday's posts :

hexenb said what has been puzzling me so much

I have wondered why NM has always stuck to the one punch to Becky and that he strangled her knowing full well the pm proved otherwise have you any thoughts on that? So much about this case is strange.

IDK
"Sticking to script " again because
- can't change it later or he becomes an admitted liar
- has to minimise as per manslaughter claim/ his accidental death version of his pre-prepped script
- but also he cannot think on his feet- lack of intellectual capacity , finds it hard to improvise n embellish on the script

Can't get my head round fact a bloke (or a pair) who are meticulous enough to clear a bathroom( alleged unproven site) of all her DNA would not think - damn , she has loads of bruises/fight marks, how can I explain that and tailor my script. ( Again, I admit I must be missing something here. )
Is it that her fight marks/bruises did not appear until much later? He somehow did not notice?
He assumed he could put those marks down to moving/disposal marks post mortem and placing in suitcase etc pre-death?
( I appreciate the "simple" answer is that SH killed BW so he was not aware he would need to story up a prolonged fight as he wasn't there, but I am not convinced of that.)

Side issue but relevant - say he did kill her alone, why has he no bruises? Would they have disappeared in days between fight and arrest? Apols for probably repeating Qs that you have all asked a thousand times.

 

[Clio]

With regard to one possible motive being jealousy/money. As well as the £50(?) cheque found in the loft in CML, I had forgotten about this

POLICE tracked down a Facebook message Matthews posted about Becky Watts.
Bethany Williams, an intelligence researcher for Avon and Somerset police, told the court that In February 2013 Matthews sent an instant message at 1.30pm.

The message said: "I think my mum is lending Becky £500 because she wants a new TV, even though she's got a flat screen that works.
"You see. Becky runs the house and my mum's a *advertiser censored*."

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ger-Facebook/story-28018789-detail/story.html

 

[Hexenb]

Still on my catch - up of yesterday's posts :

hexenb said what has been puzzling me so much



IDK
"Sticking to script " again because
- can't change it later or he's an admitted liar
- has to minimise as per manslaughter claim/ his accidental death version of his pre-prepped script
- but also he cannot think on his feet- lack of intellectual capacity , finds it hard to improvise n embellish on the script

Can't get my head round fact a bloke (or a pair) who are meticulous enough to clear a bathroom( alleged unproven site) of all her DNA would not think - damn , she has loads of bruises/fight marks, how can I explain that and tailor my script. ( Again, I admit I must be missing something here. )
Is it that her fight marks/bruises did not appear until much later? He somehow did not notice?
He assumed he could put those marks down to moving/disposal marks post mortem and placing in suitcase etc pre-death?
( I appreciate the "simple" answer is that SH killed BW so he was not aware he would need to story up a prolonged fight as he wasn't there, but I am not convinced of that.)

Side issue but relevant - say he did kill her alone, why has he no bruises? Would they have disappeared in days between fight and arrest? Apols for probably repeating Qs that you have all asked a thousand times.

I think he must have used his make up to hide the bruises

 

[Tortoise]

Still on my catch - up of yesterday's posts :

hexenb said what has been puzzling me so much



IDK
"Sticking to script " again because
- can't change it later or he's an admitted liar
- has to minimise as per manslaughter claim/ his accidental death version of his pre-prepped script
- but also he cannot think on his feet- lack of intellectual capacity , finds it hard to improvise n embellish on the script

Can't get my head round fact a bloke (or a pair) who are meticulous enough to clear a bathroom( alleged unproven site) of all her DNA would not think - damn , she has loads of bruises/fight marks, how can I explain that and tailor my script. ( Again, I admit I must be missing something here. )
Is it that her fight marks/bruises did not appear until much later? He somehow did not notice?
He assumed he could put those marks down to moving/disposal marks post mortem and placing in suitcase etc pre-death?
( I appreciate the "simple" answer is that SH killed BW so he was not aware he would need to story up a prolonged fight as he wasn't there, but I am not convinced of that.)

Side issue but relevant - say he did kill her alone, why has he no bruises? Would they have disappeared in days between fight and arrest? Apols for probably repeating Qs that you have all asked a thousand times.

think of the clothes Becky was wearing when she died, a short legged 'onesie' and a jumper. her arms would have been covered by sleeves, her torso covered, her face and legs exposed. he saw the massive bruising and swelling on her shin, and the bruising on her face.

his story is that she struggled when he was trying to get her legs in the case - hence the leg wounds
his story is that he punched her in the face - facial bruising.

he may not have known how the arm and torso bruising developed - was it pre- or post- mortem handling in his mind? go for the latter - it sounds like there was less of a fight.

just a guess.

 

[Clio]

<rsbm>
Side issue but relevant - say he did kill her alone, why has he no bruises? Would they have disappeared in days between fight and arrest? Apols for probably repeating Qs that you have all asked a thousand times.

The only thing I have seen re injuries to NM is that he had a cut on his hand when he was arrested. Re bruises on NM, it has been suggested (on here) that he may have had some bruising and that's a possible reason why he might have worn make up (DNA on mask with make up was NM's not SH's)

ETA Hexenb got there before me.

 

[Tortoise]

with regard to bruising on him - it happened on 19th Feb and he was arrested on 28th Feb. in 9 days bruising and scratches could have healed. was SH ever checked for bodily bruising I wonder - although same would apply in regards to time delay.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

With regard to one possible motive being money. As well as the £50(?) cheque found in the loft in CML, I had forgotten about this

POLICE tracked down a Facebook message Matthews posted about Becky Watts.
Bethany Williams, an intelligence researcher for Avon and Somerset police, told the court that In February 2013 Matthews sent an instant message at 1.30pm.

The message said: "I think my mum is lending Becky £500 because she wants a new TV, even though she's got a flat screen that works.
"You see. Becky runs the house and my mum's a *advertiser censored*."

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ger-Facebook/story-28018789-detail/story.html

Oh what a charmer! Becky runs the house, Mum's a d***head! If NM had his way he'd be running their house! Rotten little ****! He's got the public purse paying for his child, typical! Nope, not enough, got to tear Becky down, his sworn enemy. So childish and practically insane! AND this is 2 yrs before he kills her!!
Hate destroys.........

 

[Hexenb]

Hexen, I can barely read that. It's really hard to tell where the sentences begin and end. :/

sorry it was a quote to someones post the quote was "The people wanted their fight and Nathan already admitted defeat and so it fell on Shauna." The person who quoted it said that it meant justice not fight I didn't understand what "so it fell to Shauna" meant. Sorry I was tired

 

[Wallace]

The only thing I have seen re injuries to NM is that he had a cut on his hand when he was arrested. Re bruises on NM, it has been suggested (on here) that he may have had some bruising and that's a possible reason why he might have worn make up (DNA on mask with make up was NM's not SH's)

ETA Hexenb got there before me.

I thought his makeup was to hide the dark circles/bags under his eyes.

It's plausible that he did occasionally use make up to improve his appearance. He looks vain enough to do that kind of thing. What isn't plausible is that it's the explanation for the makeup being on the mask. Picture the scene. You are about to dismember a body using a circular saw when you catch a glimpse of yourself in the bathroom mirror. Oh my God you think, look at those awful dark circles under my eyes. I'd better put some makeup on them before I continue to dismember this body.

The makeup is from her face. She helped.

 

[Tortoise]

With regard to one possible motive being jealousy/money. As well as the £50(?) cheque found in the loft in CML, I had forgotten about this



http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ger-Facebook/story-28018789-detail/story.html

not to do with the money aspect, but gosh, his words "my mum's a *advertiser censored*"!

that is not someone who respects and thinks compassionately about their mum being mistreated. IMO. just a little insight into his mind there from where I see things.

 

[Hexenb]

IDK, the only thing that makes me slightly suspicious is that it isn't painful all the time, if she has a recognised condition.

Something that puzzles me more is that she says they have straight loving sex (in my own words) and he has never used violence during sex. I don't know if I believe this tbh. Sounds like it could be a cover up.

I'm wondering if she has endometriosis I think that can cause painful sex (although I think its a cover up)