GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #14

[Insp.Dots]

I hope so! I'm wondering what we're missing...

He's probably telling them that despite the Members of WS being hugely intelligent and wonderful people it is not up to them to decide......blah blah blaaaaa:happydance::tantrum::scared::jail:

 

[Clio]

Oh, darn! The murder charge really is all wrapped up in the conspiracy to kidnap charge. I do not envy this jury.

Seems to be

 

[Clio]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 22s22 seconds ago
It's for the prosecution to prove that the four defendants carried out the crime, not for the defendants to say they didn't. #beckywatts

 

[YidArmyRach]

Just curious to know, if SH gets let off, will she get the contents of her house and her child back?

Doubt she'd want them! The contents of the house that is.

As its all NM's junk, it might have to be given to his poor family

 

[Alyce]

UK & Eire say they are currently talking about "other charges" against NM/SH which have not been part of this trial

ETA Judge still outlining legal charges. Summing up not started yet

I wonder if they are talking in Chambers then ? or have the Jury been sent out ?

Surely they cant talk about other non related charges in front of the Jury ?

 

[Tortoise]

It follows that they couldn't find her guilty by way of joint enterprise but there should still be an option to find her guilty of a standalone charge of murder, otherwise it seems to be a loophole anybody could use when they want to cover for somebody who was involved in a murder. So two people kill a person, person 1 wants to cover for person 2, so person 1 makes up a story that they alone planned to just kidnap the victim, then unless the court can prove that person 2 was involved in this imaginary plan (which they wouldnt be able to as it never existed) person 2 can't be convicted of murder

but seeing as a charge of kidnap has been brought, and admitted by NM, I consider it so unlikely to be true he would have done that in SH's presence. He would have thought she would be outside for 5 minutes. IMO he's stitched up SH completely if there was no plan to kidnap that day.

I do however believe they planned this, seen in the light of their many 'toilet humour' texts, and approach to a girl on fb. I also think that as SH denied the kidnap toilet humour texts she knew it showed her involvement and suggestion.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Oh, darn! The murder charge really is all wrapped up in the conspiracy to kidnap charge. I do not envy this jury.

But on the other hand...... the texts are pretty damning even if they don't relate to Becky. Its bizarre, but for me, there is more evidence to convict SH on a made up kidnap story than there is on whatever the real circumstances were that day.

If SH got convicted on a kidnap charge, of a kidnap that was never even planned ..... I wonder if she might start talking about what she really saw and heard that day and the subsequent days?

 

[Cherwell]

It doesn't make sense to me. Why could it not be a straightforward attempt at rape/sexual assault?
I suppose there may be evidence that we haven't been told about yet.

As for DD, he is surely home and dry.

 

[Clio]

I wonder if they are talking in Chambers then ? or have the Jury been sent out ?

Surely they cant talk about other non related charges in front of the Jury ?

They send the jury out. It's a pain, you are in and out of the courtroom all the time

 

[ColourPurple]

why the need for stun guns / batteries / handcuffs ?

also car backed up to house?

We're going by their version though. Maybe the car was originally on the road and they then had to back it up on to the drive once they were faced with a dead body to move.

The handcuffs had Beckys blood on them which suggests they were used but NM's never said that he stopped for batteries for the stun gun(police found that out) .. hmmn maybe he left that part out because it may have implicated SH being aware of what he was doing.Ok, now I think maybe it was a kidnap plan and she was involved. Maybe. Still think her murder charge should be separate from it though. There should be an option to find her guilty of murder even if you think the kidnap plan is BS, as well as there being an option to find her guilty of murder through joint enterprise.

 

[Clio]

We're going by their version though. Maybe the car was originally on the road and they then had to back it up on to the drive once they were faced with a dead body to move.

The handcuffs had Beckys blood on them which suggests they were used but NM's never said that he stopped for batteries for the stun gun(police found that out) .. hmmn maybe he left that part out because it may have implicated SH being aware of what he was doing.Ok, now I think maybe it was a kidnap plan and she was involved. Maybe. Still think her murder charge should be separate from it though. There should be an option to find her guilty of murder even if you think the kidnap plan is BS, as well as there being an option to find her guilty of murder through joint enterprise.

AFAIK They can't have it both ways. It's either separate charges or JE.

 

[ColourPurple]

Have a read of this and see what you think
http://www.itv.com/news/west/2015-11-09/becky-watts-trial-what-the-jury-must-decide/

What I think is that the law is wrong lol . There's no "I think the kidnap story is made up but that she was involved the actual murder" option

Whether Shauna Hoare is guilty of murder or manslaughter or none. The crown must prove that:
* That Hoare participated in the kidnapping of Becky Watts intending that she should be killed or come to serious bodily harm to overcome her resistance.
* In the course of the attack Matthews suffocated or strangled Becky while intending to kill her or cause her really serious bodily harm.
* OR if Hoare participated in the kidnap of Becky, and reasonably believed that some harm might be caused to her this is manslaughter.

 

[Edinlass]

I hope it's life 30+ years without parole for NM, SH the same (although I think she will only get done with perverting the course of justice & the stun gun charges) so frustrating because I think we are all in agreement that she knew more or was fully complicit. DD should get off, along with JI as he has served enough time already. JP - suspended sentance and KD maybe 2 years - I think if any of the 4 knew the full extent - he did, although I still think he thought it was drugs / stolen goods.

Hoping for the outcome Friday.

 

[ColourPurple]

but seeing as a charge of kidnap has been brought, and admitted by NM, I consider it so unlikely to be true he would have done that in SH's presence. He would have thought she would be outside for 5 minutes. IMO he's stitched up SH completely if there was no plan to kidnap that day.

I do however believe they planned this, seen in the light of their many 'toilet humour' texts, and approach to a girl on fb. I also think that as SH denied the kidnap toilet humour texts she knew it showed her involvement and suggestion.

Argh it could go either way. She could end up not guilty of a murder she may have been involved in just because they cant prove she was involved in a kidnap plan before it ...

But then as you say if on the other hand if the jury accepts there really was a kidnap plan then it makes no sense to carry it out while SH was there, unless she knew

 

[Clio]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 56s57 seconds ago
Judge has now started to sum up all the evidence heard in the trial. Here's our summary by weeks. #beckywatts http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-06/becky-watts-murder-trial-gets-underway/ …

Heart West News ‏@HeartWestNews · 34s34 seconds ago
Judge now summing up all the evidence heard in #beckywatts trial

 

[Crazy Mama]

So when it is all said and done, will we find out about stuff that was unmentionable during the trial? Or will there be stuff kept secret forever?
We still never heard who removed her Tampon. I know it is gros to harp on about it, but I cannot bear to think that someone would do it and not be an abuser.

 

[ColourPurple]

AFAIK They can't have it both ways. It's either separate charges or JE. There is nothing to tie SH to killing Becky without JE

Only her being there... which apart from his bloody fingerprint is all they'd have to tie NM to the killing had he not confessed. Thank God he never noticed that

 

[MamaJoJo]

I can't make myself believe that if you are faced with charges like these (conspiracy to kidnap, murder/manslaughter/, etc) that it really works to DENY, DENY, DENY and that you'll get off scot free. My head will spin off if this is the case with SH.

ETA: Yes, I know that if your are innocent and are being railroaded then, yes, you should DENY, DENY, DENY. It's just that I really feel that SH was completely complicit in what happened to BW :tantrum:

 

[ColourPurple]

So when it is all said and done, will we find out about stuff that was unmentionable during the trial? Or will there be stuff kept secret forever?
We still never heard who removed her Tampon. I know it is gros to harp on about it, but I cannot bear to think that someone would do it and not be an abuser.

I dont think we'll find out who did that if neither of them ever spoke about it, but we should find out any evidence that was deemed inadmissable

 

[Alyce]

What I think is that the law is wrong lol . There's no "I think the kidnap story is made up but that she was involved the actual murder" option

Whether Shauna Hoare is guilty of murder or manslaughter or none. The crown must prove that:
* That Hoare participated in the kidnapping of Becky Watts intending that she should be killed or come to serious bodily harm to overcome her resistance.
* In the course of the attack Matthews suffocated or strangled Becky while intending to kill her or cause her really serious bodily harm.
* OR if Hoare participated in the kidnap of Becky, and reasonably believed that some harm might be caused to her this is manslaughter.

BIB So this charge includes helping to dismember and cover up the crime ?