Found Deceased UK - Richard Okorogheye, 19, Oxford Student, Ladbroke Grove, West London, 24 March 2021 #2
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Yes. I can’t obviously be sure. But I would hope they are being thorough.
The Met have stated that various bits of his tech are being examined in police labs. Depending on how far they have got, they might have found out quite a lot about online banking (I'm assuming they can get a warrant or whatever's needed for providers to disclose information) and things like his search history and apps/websites he used. That could reveal a lot about his activities and preoccupations. Of course what that might be can only be conjecture, as nothing has been stated publicly, other than that they know he paid his cab fare (we don't know if driver came forward or if he was traced based on the transaction)
Distant Observer
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Natural forest ponds are normally very shallow - maybe only a foot deep. However in some places in the past, gravel extraction has taken place which is why ponds such as Wake Valley Pond (next to an ancient turnpike road) and Blackweir Pond are deeper than regular ponds and have been stocked with fish. In contrast, Connaught Waters was originally a gravel pit and very deep in places but was deliberately filled in to make it safer for visitors. I therefore believe RO was thinking clearly and logically when he took the route he did - even if once in the forest he may have got lost or unsettled by the animal noises. People assume the forest is quiet at night, however deer, foxes and rodents are nocturnal and there is often a hive of activity around you. The police forensic investigation of his computer will be crucial in trying to uncover any research he did prior to making that cab ride to Loughton.
beckyonsea
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Is Epping Forest known as a place to go to for this reason? I'm thinking of the Japanese forests of course. Clutching at straws for reasons why there?
beckyonsea
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The killer/suicide pool in Epping Forest
Urgh..answered my own question.
Urgh..answered my own question.
From The Guardian, "Investigators are still looking at his computer and searching the forest for his shoes, phone and bag."
If these items are found, it may be interesting to learn where they're found , and what's in Richard's bag.
It'll be even more interesting if they're not found...
My heart’s been ripped apart, says mother of Richard Okorogheye
If these items are found, it may be interesting to learn where they're found , and what's in Richard's bag.
It'll be even more interesting if they're not found...
My heart’s been ripped apart, says mother of Richard Okorogheye
Yes, @JuicyLucy, it's difficult to believe, and I too am very sceptical that Richard set out from home with the intention to kill himself in Epping Forest.
I do wonder where he was and what he may have experienced, unknown to us, during the 1 1/2 hours prior to taking the taxi. Perhaps something happened during that time that triggered an overwhelming desire to leave this world, but even if that's the case, I think it's highly unlikely to be the reason he travelled to Loughton.
The BBC reports,
"Though the death is being treated as unexplained, detectives say they don't believe a third party was involved."
"Don't believe a third party was involved "isn't as definitive as "have ruled out third-party involvement". It leaves room for doubt, perhaps in case the PM shows otherwise. Or, in spite of heaping pain on top of Evidence's agony, might LE state "they don't believe a third party was involved" hoping to encourage careless behaviour in a perp?
Then there's this, "The cause of death is pending while further investigations are carried out, but police say they found no evidence of physical trauma or assault."
Injected or ingested toxins causing death would leave no readily discernible evidence of physical trauma or assault.
Richard Okorogheye: Mother does not believe son took his own life
'He loved life, he had plans, he had aspirations'
If the main post mortem has proved inconclusive, I guess that answers (if any) about cause of death will now depend solely on toxicology and other lab test results. The wait must seem interminable for Richard’s parents.
The post-mortem diagnosis of vasocclusive crisis in sickle cell disease
Scientific paper on post mortem diagnosis of sickle cell crisis, plus other related info.
Scientific paper on post mortem diagnosis of sickle cell crisis, plus other related info.
Annabel8999
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IMO it’s a rope, knife, gun, alcohol or a combination of those. It’s what he used. Sorry.
Thank for the link @Cuko
It's led me to google further about vaso occlusive crisis, and it seems it is not necessarily fatal. It's the medical term for the episodes of severe pain which are a feature of the condition.
This article,
Vaso-Occlusive Crisis
from one of the sickle cell support organisations, describes it a bit further, and I note that it describes medications which are used. His mother said he went out without his meds, so it's highly likely that he was on at least one of the three main ones they list: Endari (l-glutamine) hydroxyurea (aka hydroxycarbamide, an oral chemotherapy drug) and opiod pain killers.
The bag he was carrying looked far too small and the content too light for rope or gun, or large quantities of alcohol. But IMO if he's had a new prescription recently then there could be a dangerous quantity of opiates (he might have sorted that without his mother's knowledge, and the end of the previous pack be the ones left)
Which might also be a reason not to go down the Tube - wouldn't want to be mugged and lose that JMO
It's led me to google further about vaso occlusive crisis, and it seems it is not necessarily fatal. It's the medical term for the episodes of severe pain which are a feature of the condition.
This article,
Vaso-Occlusive Crisis
from one of the sickle cell support organisations, describes it a bit further, and I note that it describes medications which are used. His mother said he went out without his meds, so it's highly likely that he was on at least one of the three main ones they list: Endari (l-glutamine) hydroxyurea (aka hydroxycarbamide, an oral chemotherapy drug) and opiod pain killers.
The bag he was carrying looked far too small and the content too light for rope or gun, or large quantities of alcohol. But IMO if he's had a new prescription recently then there could be a dangerous quantity of opiates (he might have sorted that without his mother's knowledge, and the end of the previous pack be the ones left)
Which might also be a reason not to go down the Tube - wouldn't want to be mugged and lose that JMO
JuicyLucy
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This is interesting but a bit of a different situation.
In these patients, the point of the PM was to establish a cause of death in people who hadn't hitherto been diagnosed with SCD. Also, their bodies hadn't, one presumes, been submerged in water for up to a fortnight before autopsy.
The challenges for the pathologists working on Richard's case are both different – because the value of Richard’s PM is not so much about identifying a cause of death purely for the record nor about reflecting on improvements in health care provision, but about the range of possibilities the police are considering that can be ruled in or out – and greater, largely because of the practicalities of working with a very degraded cadaver.
In Richard’s case, vaso-occlusive crisis almost certainly did occur if he was still alive when he went into the water, but it may not have been the cause of death (or not the sole one), which may have been drowning, or may have been something else entirely.
If a PM were to show both that drowning was not the cause of death and that vaso-occlusion did not occur, then imo that would be very suggestive of Richard having already been dead when he went into the water, i.e. that someone else was involved. However, under the circumstances (i.e. the level of decomposition) this information may just not be available and certainly nothing the police have said even hints at it.
One thing I think we can rely on is that the body is very decomposed. If it were not, that would suggest Richard had been alive, if not necessarily well, for some time before he entered the water, and in that event I think the police would be wanting answers to questions such as where was he, how was he subsisting, might he have been sheltered by someone, etc, which don’t seem to be on their mind.
Of course, even if we assume that Richard entered the water in fairly short order after his disappearance and died of drowning or complications of his SCD, that doesn’t preclude the complicity, coercion or encouragement of someone else, but the PM can’t tell us about that.
ETA: JMO
Distant Observer
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I am convinced that the reason RO did not travel by the underground was because he did not wish to face the possibility of ending his life as sadly many Londoners do by jumping in front of a train. By all accounts RO was a good intelligent kid who cared about his mother, he wasn't involved in gangs or drugs and he clearly put a lot of thought into his decision making. By taking a cab rather than the Tube he removed any prospect of taking impulsive action. If as I believe, he had read up about the legends surrounding Blackweir Pool, the idea that people are drawn to this pool by some mysterious force would have reinforced in his mind that he was not blaming any other person for his actions.
“It’s what he used” sounds as if you know for sure. I don’t think anyone knows apart from Richard himself. But the use of rope, knife or gun would show injury. Which according to the PM, is not present.
The bag is very small, it wouldn’t hold much, and in terms of alcohol, the bag looks very light in the way it is moving when you see Richard walking away on the Loughton cctv.
JMO
This is a study on pigs and shows some graphic images for warning but I was surprised at how slow it can be in reasonably cool water without predators: http://www.pottidiving.com/documenten/Freshwater submerged body decomposition.pdf
JuicyLucy
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Grim! I'm not going to ask how you found that.
NB that the body parts were submerged frozen. I'm not sure of the extent to which that changes things. We are learning on this thread, for sure!
I did initially think there was possibly rope in his bag but I personally think it was just things that perhaps meant something to him if it wasn’t just where he ordinarily kept his phone and keys. His mum as far as I know hasn’t mentioned it was strange for him to be carrying a bag.
WRT to money - with shielding advice paused in August 2020, I’m assuming RO would have taken out a student maintenance loan in the expectation of attending university for the autumn term. Additionally, with the advent of the new lockdown and reintroduction of shielding in January, he would have had little opportunity to spend (except online - hence perhaps the PS5 purchase), so overall I don’t see that he would have had money problems of the kind that necessitated someone else paying for the taxi to Loughton.