UK - Scarlett Vickers (14) stabbed to death at home in Darlington. Parents charged with murder (5 July '24)

[bringmeacupoft]

Dread to think what went on in that house behind closed doors.

 

[bobbymkii]

@bobbymkii could you share a little context on the procedures of the relevant courts? (Eg. disputing the facts, moving to crown court, etc.) I’m completely unfamiliar with this context.

Well IANAL but if I'm given an opportunity to do a bit of guerilla lawsplaining I'm usually happy to give it a go!

So they've been charged and had their magistrates court appearance, where all cases start. Obviously, murder is way too serious for a magistrates court to deal with so the next hearing according to the media I've picked up is next month at crown court. Seems to be quite a long time until they get to Crown Court, usually it's a lot sooner. I've even seen big murder cases before where the defendant has been in the magistrate's court in the morning and then crown court in the afternoon. There was also (IIRC) mention that they could apply for bail this week.

It's always a bit hush-hush at this stage and difficult to work out exactly what's going on, no indication that I can see about when they'll be expected to enter a plea. I believe they can apply for a hearing to dismiss the charges.

Other things that might happen between now and the next court date in August is a coroner's inquest which will get as far as it can before being suspended until the trial's conclusion. We might get more information made public after their Crown Court hearing next month, we might not! That's unfortunately how transparency (or the lack thereof) works in the England & Wales criminal justice system.

 

[Helen_Stewart]

I assumed it was one of the parents who called the emergency services. Unless Scarlett didn't die immediately and she managed to phone for help.

This is my theory too. She wakes up, hears or sees a commotion, realises it's serious and rings the police. Then goes to try and intervene.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Well IANAL but if I'm given an opportunity to do a bit of guerilla lawsplaining I'm usually happy to give it a go!

So they've been charged and had their magistrates court appearance, where all cases start. Obviously, murder is way too serious for a magistrates court to deal with so the next hearing according to the media I've picked up is next month at crown court. Seems to be quite a long time until they get to Crown Court, usually it's a lot sooner. I've even seen big murder cases before where the defendant has been in the magistrate's court in the morning and then crown court in the afternoon. There was also (IIRC) mention that they could apply for bail this week.

It's always a bit hush-hush at this stage and difficult to work out exactly what's going on, no indication that I can see about when they'll be expected to enter a plea. I believe they can apply for a hearing to dismiss the charges.

Other things that might happen between now and the next court date in August is a coroner's inquest which will get as far as it can before being suspended until the trial's conclusion. We might get more information made public after their Crown Court hearing next month, we might not! That's unfortunately how transparency (or the lack thereof) works in the England & Wales criminal justice system.

Can you think of any reason for such a delay for the Crown Court hearing???

All I keep thinking is that there might be facts we just do not understand or know yet....

But your expertise here is so very valuable.

 

[Lucy6226]

The best scenario here is like others have suggested a tragic accident during an argument or something similar. However the parents have been charged with murder, not manslaughter, therefore we have to presume there is evidence to suggest there was premeditation and intent for CPS to agree with the charge.

 

[Parker Knoll]

It is a long time to move it from the Mags over to the crown for the first appearance - very odd indeed - 28 days is the statutory though it can be longer. We have a young victim here though and they are charged with murder both being in custody.
Just edited to add it looks like they will apply for bail tomorrow ( Wednesday )

 

[bobbymkii]

It is a long time to move it from the Mags over to the crown for the first appearance - very odd indeed - 28 days is the statutory though it can be longer. We have a young victim here though and they are charged with murder both being in custody.
Just edited to add it looks like they will apply for bail tomorrow ( Wednesday )

I always have my beady eye on the listings for Teesside Crown Court as it's the closest court to where I grew up. I even did jury service in there once!

 

[bobbymkii]

Can you think of any reason for such a delay for the Crown Court hearing???

All I keep thinking is that there might be facts we just do not understand or know yet....

But your expertise here is so very valuable.

You flatter me! I wouldn't describe myself as an expert, merely an enthusiast.

I'm certainly at a loss to work out how or why there's such a big gap between the magistrate's and crown court appearances. Wouldn't it be great if we could just have transparency in our justice system rather than having to wildly speculate all the time?

 

[Parker Knoll]

It’s not usually this long bobby you are quite right.