Found Deceased UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

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hippy hippy said:
I

StarAnise you are absolutely spot on. My mistake on that first map with the pink patch. I totally put the search area in the wrong place. The police searched the area to the left of where I marked and we found the snack litter last week to the right side of the wall. I may have to do another map later to day. Going out this morning to search as I am working from midday on.
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BBM - Ok, now I am a tad confused. The yellow square where snacks were found on the recent map and the pink rectangle area on the original map are in the same areas. Do you mean that on the original first map where you marked the pink rectangular outline was not actually the area that your dog went into the trees? And that it was actually the area to the left of that where SAR did in fact search? :waitasec:

Finding a tie out there is strange indeed. Who would be wearing, much less lose, a tie out in a nature trail area? :what: (picturing a business guy taking a nature walk on his lunch break and needing to go to the bathroom with nothing to wipe himself with saying, "Well, I never liked that tie anyways". lol)
 
StarAnise I am going to now revise that original map and then post it so give me a few minutes. Meantime, I laid the neck tie out in the open, no skid marks on it that I noticed!, the tie can be photographed tomorrow when I go back if you want but I'm sure it's not related to anything we are interested in here...
 
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So pink area is where I know SAR searched on hands and knees. They may have done more thorough searches in the area before or after my call, but definitely they searched where I pointed to them the area the dog disappeared into. Yellow dot on LE is lip balm, yellow dots on right are snack packets, that area on right thoroughly searched by my son and I. Red line is my track today, red dot where I found tie about 10 feet into trees from track. Red patch is where I did another thorough search as it follows a path leading downhill to open fields and may have been an option to do a shortcut...
 
Hippy Hippy, so much for my "toilet tissue" theory ;) Yeah, wasn't really thinking the tie was related either, but good to note everything you find and document it.

And I understand now about the search areas...thanks for explaining and putting up a new map. Very helpful to get a good visual.

One question I am not sure has been answered yet is whether or not the SAR used HRD (cadaver) dogs or not in that Loch Hoil trail area? I would assume they would have in addition to the scent dogs, but don't recall either you or Lumberjill stating that as fact, or if you guys even know for sure.
 
At two weeks after Susan vanished, there were two police vans with dogs at the Loch Hoil trailhead.
I too am puzzled that there was no DNA recovered from a definitely used lip balm tube.
 
Lumberjill said:
At two weeks after Susan vanished, there were two police vans with dogs at the Loch Hoil trailhead.
I too am puzzled that there was no DNA recovered from a definitely used lip balm tube.
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You're very thorough LJ, did you ask if they were the HRD? I'd be interested to know the answer to that question.
Sorry for another question but when the CID was visiting you on Sunday, he said he would bring the lip balm for you to see it yourself, to show you which type it was. Did you ask how it was possible that there was no DNA on it? Having that answer would sure clear this lip balm controversy up. Thank you in advance LJ.
 
The police vans/dogs seen at two weeks after Susan went missing were reported to hh and me by a pair of local hikers who joined us for a search last week. It is a presumption that the dogs were trained to detect cadavers.
The CID officer that I met with acknowledged that he is not a scientist and had no immediate response to the "No DNA on lip balm?" question. I expect to get a reply forwarded from the lab thru him soon.
 
Lumberjill said:
The police vans/dogs seen at two weeks after Susan went missing were reported to hh and me by a pair of local hikers who joined us for a search last week. It is a presumption that the dogs were trained to detect cadavers.
The CID officer that I met with acknowledged that he is not a scientist and had no immediate response to the "No DNA on lip balm?" question. I expect to get a reply forwarded from the lab thru him soon.
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I'm no scientist either .... but still. I'm having trouble deciding how one can apply lip balm during a walk (daily use, nothing fancy with gloves, or robots, etc.) without touching anything at all... top, shaft, balm. :thinking:

Reading between the lines, I assume that you have not seen the lip balm that was found, is that correct?
Since you did not come to Scotland not to make a fuss, keep on asking all the questions that need to be asked!
 
No disrespect to anyone but until the police say that the lip balm was used but no DNA was found due to A,B or C, I have to assume it was unused. I do not distrust the police or the credibility of the science labs. This is just my opinion.

I can understand how a loved one would want to make this lip balm be connected to Susan but the scientific results show it doesn't.

I'll always keep checking in here for any updates on Susan.
 
Is there a possibility that Susan did accept a ride, and is not in the thick woods? Maybe she is being held, confused or other harm done that we just don't know. I miss her more than words can say and want her home. It is so hard, God has the answers, when will we?
 
1pinklillies, no disrespect taken. And of course you can assume whatever you feel is appropriate. But the lip balm WAS USED.
Baylea, you are right in reminding us that Susan might have accepted a ride. She didn't accept the ride offered from the person who offered it not too far from Moness, she actually diverted her head away so that her face couldn't be seen by the one who asked 2 or 3 times if she wanted a ride, help, etc. So I'm tending to think she wouldn't accept a ride offered later. Then there is the possibility of abduction, pulled into a van, etc. I'd imagine Susan would give anybody a helluva fight. She's strong. It would take two to abduct, plus a driver. Yes, it's possible, but with her hood up, a driver even wouldn't know if it was a man or woman. Plus, such crimes are very rare in Scotland, and unheard of in Aberfeldy.
 
Lumberjill, I understand what you are saying. Susan would give one hell of a fight, we both know that, if it was Susan in her normal state. What if she was injured or had fallen and confused? It is so hard to believe with all you and HH has done plus what the police have done things just aren't coming together. Susan used lip balm all the time and quite often. She could have picked it up other than the States and a different brand than what she would normally use. The only other thing I can think of is a cover up as not to get the police in more trouble with not providing answers sooner. I just am getting so frustrated as to not knowing. Nothing like her family and HH and you, I am sure. God Bless the McLeans.
 
Can the lip balm be sent by family to a different lab? Seems this is a keystone in the case especially that Susan used lip balm often. Obviously it could be anyone's and I would be more willing to accept the results if they came back showing it was not Susan's DNA but hearing there was no DNA does seem off. On several occasions, I have left lip balm or lipstick in a beach bag and/or car and it melted a bit which made it look a little used. But, more times than not, it had been used at least once - otherwise I would not unwrap it until ready. Most balms have that clear wrapping over the top - not sure about the brand that was found though .
 
SATURDAY SEARCH 4 SUSAN:
Hill Walkers, foresters, gamekeepers, townspeople----
Please join us for a search of the densely forested area between Loch Hoil trail and Aberfeldy, Crieff Rd and the Birks of Aberfeldy.
Saturday August 8, 10 AM at the Loch Hoil Trailhead.
We'll have sections of forest plotted out on a map. We'll try to in assemble groups (so that nobody hikes alone) and each group will be given a map of a sector to search. Please come dressed for rough hiking--it's not easy to get into the forest at some points, but once inside where the sun doesn't shine the walking gets easier but the ground is uneven.
We're still working on the parking details, but please carpool to the trailhead. Thank you!!!
 
Lumberjill said:
SATURDAY SEARCH 4 SUSAN:
Hill Walkers, foresters, gamekeepers, townspeople----
Please join us for a search of the densely forested area between Loch Hoil trail and Aberfeldy, Crieff Rd and the Birks of Aberfeldy.
Saturday August 8, 10 AM at the Loch Hoil Trailhead.
We'll have sections of forest plotted out on a map. We'll try to in assemble groups (so that nobody hikes alone) and each group will be given a map of a sector to search. Please come dressed for rough hiking--it's not easy to get into the forest at some points, but once inside where the sun doesn't shine the walking gets easier but the ground is uneven.
We're still working on the parking details, but please carpool to the trailhead. Thank you!!!
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Lumberjill and Hippy,
:yourock:



May I suggest that you start at the local pub / the restaurant / country club (if it is there and open) and carpool from there?
A central meeting place with coffee an facilities is appreciated by many. This also gives you some time to get to know the people, and they can ask questions which they surely have. Together you can take a look at the map and make plans for a possible next search when you return.

I'm not much of hiker myself and if I were there - and I'm neither - I would offer to make tea and sandwiches so the searchers feel welcome and become extra motivated.
 
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