Found Deceased UK - Susan McLean, 61, U.S. tourist, Aberfeldy, Scotland, 17 May 2015

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Cagney, Effort has been made to get details from Police Scotland in Perth, but the word from the investigator's supervisor is that they can discuss, but not provide maps with specifics. I will visit them next week in hopes of getting enough detail that I can draw maps as they are speaking, though it seems peculiar that they aren't willing to share with family exactly what they did, where they did it, what's the next best step in their professional opinion. Yes, I'm sure they believe that searches are best left in the hands of professionals....but when they run out of time and interest, when their lives go on to new issues.... Wouldn't they want to give us their data? Hoping. Anybody know about Scotland's Freedom of Information law?
 
Hi All
So this is why I became involved in searching so often:
On Tuesday May 19th, early afternoon, I took my dogs up to the Moness estate walks, called Loch Hoil walks, that start opposite the garden centre. I used to do this walk once very two weeks, until recently of course!, and so we parked up and walked about 1.5 to 2 miles west along that track, direction Aberfeldy, but above Aberfeldy. Basically the track that you all know I have focused on all this time. About a mile along the dogs pulled me over to the wee shepherds hut/bothy by the track. There had been a camp fire there by the bothy ashes still warm, and the dogs enjoyed licking the stones round the fireplace (probably meat fat from a BBQ) In two years walking that trail I had never seen the bothy in use so I went inside and there found two camping backpacks with tents, sleeping bags etc all neatly folded away as if ready to leave. Nothing struck me as unusual except I realised I would probably meet the owners at some time on my walk.
Carried on another fifteen minutes with dogs off leash. The collie cross dog, crossed with an Austrian Pincsher, was behind us,the Daxie in front. The collie, called Phoebe, ran off and was gone a few minutes before I missed her, so I began to shout on her to come back, and put the hound back on leash, didn't want her to run off looking after the other one. I called for another five minutes then heard way off downhill and to the back of me very agitated barking, consistent and not mobile. So I became worried,thought she was in trouble, and went back to the place I had last seen her, and began calling again but of course she couldn't hear me,she was barking so much. At the point three young men came down the trail, from west of me.mi explained I was shouting on the dog to come, they said hello and carried on past me. Obviously heading back to get their camping gear. I sat on the wall with the other dog, the barking finally subsided and I became quite emotional. Half an hour had passed and I was really concerned about the dog but didn't want to go searching in case she came back on the trail. She has never run off like this before for that long a time, and she is not a barker like the hound is.
She finally came, hurtling down the trail, again west of me, terribly agitated and whimpering, head, face and front forelegs smeared with blood. I thought the worst so just felt all over her thoroughly for the wound. Nothing. Checked inside her ears also and inside her mouth. Nothing. It was not her blood. But it was fresh, very pink, no smell like that dead animal smell they like to roll in, no bits, just that fresh blood metallic smell. So I rechecked inside her mouth...could she have attacked an animal, mauled it? She is eight years old and has never been aggressive to an animal or attacked. She loves to chase a squirrel up a tree or cats or deer, but never has attacked. It is not in her breed anyway. But I checked her teeth, tongue, breath, no sign of biting or eating an animal. I had the blood on my hands and smelt them again. Meanwhile the helicopter is hovering overhead so I thought of course, perhaps it's the missing tourist, she's fallen and is bleeding, can't move. So I commanded the dog to Go get it! get the toy ! That's how I get her to seek out her ball or her toys. So she ran of back up the track a ways then dipped through a hole in the deer fence and ran up along the wall, heading west. We tried to keep up, then she turned right and into very thick forest where we couldn't follow. I called and called and she eventually came back but with no new fresh blood as far as I can tell. Just there where I was waiting for her, I spotted a Neutrogena lip balm and pocketed it, thinking it might belong to the tourist.
I decided to head home, we'd been out long enough and I thought it best to find a police car, there were so many going about town then.
Dover back into town down the Crieff road. In retrospect I wish I had gone right to Donald's lodge, there was a police van parked there. But I went into the town and followed another police car until he parked. The two policemen left the car to go into someone's house, we waited about ten minutes but the dogs were thirsty and hot so I went home.
I fed them etc, didn't wash the collie or her collar, called the police information number but it rang off so I assumed the office was closed. My mistake was in not driving up to the police station immediately.
However, I called the next morning
 
Hi All
So this is why I became involved in searching so often:
On Tuesday May 19th, early afternoon, I took my dogs up to the Moness estate walks, called Loch Hoil walks, that start opposite the garden centre. I used to do this walk once very two weeks, until recently of course!, and so we parked up and walked about 1.5 to 2 miles west along that track, direction Aberfeldy, but above Aberfeldy. Basically the track that you all know I have focused on all this time. About a mile along the dogs pulled me over to the wee shepherds hut/bothy by the track. There had been a camp fire there by the bothy ashes still warm, and the dogs enjoyed licking the stones round the fireplace (probably meat fat from a BBQ) In two years walking that trail I had never seen the bothy in use so I went inside and there found two camping backpacks with tents, sleeping bags etc all neatly folded away as if ready to leave. Nothing struck me as unusual except I realised I would probably meet the owners at some time on my walk.
Carried on another fifteen minutes with dogs off leash. The collie cross dog, crossed with an Austrian Pincsher, was behind us,the Daxie in front. The collie, called Phoebe, ran off and was gone a few minutes before I missed her, so I began to shout on her to come back, and put the hound back on leash, didn't want her to run off looking after the other one. I called for another five minutes then heard way off downhill and to the back of me very agitated barking, consistent and not mobile. So I became worried,thought she was in trouble, and went back to the place I had last seen her, and began calling again but of course she couldn't hear me,she was barking so much. At the point three young men came down the trail, from west of me.mi explained I was shouting on the dog to come, they said hello and carried on past me. Obviously heading back to get their camping gear. I sat on the wall with the other dog, the barking finally subsided and I became quite emotional. Half an hour had passed and I was really concerned about the dog but didn't want to go searching in case she came back on the trail. She has never run off like this before for that long a time, and she is not a barker like the hound is.
She finally came, hurtling down the trail, again west of me, terribly agitated and whimpering, head, face and front forelegs smeared with blood. I thought the worst so just felt all over her thoroughly for the wound. Nothing. Checked inside her ears also and inside her mouth. Nothing. It was not her blood. But it was fresh, very pink, no smell like that dead animal smell they like to roll in, no bits, just that fresh blood metallic smell. So I rechecked inside her mouth...could she have attacked an animal, mauled it? She is eight years old and has never been aggressive to an animal or attacked. She loves to chase a squirrel up a tree or cats or deer, but never has attacked. It is not in her breed anyway. But I checked her teeth, tongue, breath, no sign of biting or eating an animal. I had the blood on my hands and smelt them again. Meanwhile the helicopter is hovering overhead so I thought of course, perhaps it's the missing tourist, she's fallen and is bleeding, can't move. So I commanded the dog to Go get it! get the toy ! That's how I get her to seek out her ball or her toys. So she ran of back up the track a ways then dipped through a hole in the deer fence and ran up along the wall, heading west. We tried to keep up, then she turned right and into very thick forest where we couldn't follow. I called and called and she eventually came back but with no new fresh blood as far as I can tell. Just there where I was waiting for her, I spotted a Neutrogena lip balm and pocketed it, thinking it might belong to the tourist.
I decided to head home, we'd been out long enough and I thought it best to find a police car, there were so many going about town then.
Dover back into town down the Crieff road. In retrospect I wish I had gone right to Donald's lodge, there was a police van parked there. But I went into the town and followed another police car until he parked. The two policemen left the car to go into someone's house, we waited about ten minutes but the dogs were thirsty and hot so I went home.
I fed them etc, didn't wash the collie or her collar, called the police information number but it rang off so I assumed the office was closed. My mistake was in not driving up to the police station immediately.
However, I called the next morning


Wait, what???
 
Oh my word, HH, I wasn't expecting that.....

So, a few questions:

Did the police take a sample of the blood and has it been tested?

Do we know if Susan had a neutrogena lip balm?

Are you able to pinpoint an area / radius of where this blood could have come from?

Has Phoebe tracked back to that location on any of your walks?

Do you think the woods were thick enough to prevent heetseekers seeing anything?

Were the 3 men walking back from the direction Phoebe ran in? Could they know anything? Could they be traced?

Finally, did the police take all this seriously??
 
Also, would you mind mapping this when you get a few minutes? Where you started, the bothy, the lipbalm, the hole in the fence, where you saw the men?
 
Sorry there's more:
The police picked me up at work and we drove uphill to the track. They commented as we reached the garden centre that it was a long way, sounded doubtful she would come up there. Anyway, I was aware that I may be wasting their time but I felt I had to tell them about the dog. They opened the gates and we drove to the point the dog ran through the hole in the deer fence, but I couldn't leave the car so I had to point out roughly where I found the lip balm and where the dog ran into the forest. They hadn't done any checks of this area at all and I had to explain to them that it is just above the town and you can head down to the town from there, via Croftness Farm. We headd back to town, I gave a statement including descriptions of the campers and they bagged and labelled the Neutrogena. I told them I had not washed the dogs head, though she had licked the blood of her shins, and should they come to my house to take hair and blood samples for testing. They said, We know what we are doing, one step at a time, we will call you if we need to speak to you again. I then said, well how long should I not wash the dog. The answer was, don't worry about it. So I said, two days? I need to wash her. They just said, we will contact you if need be. So I gave them my shift hours at work and they had my address and phone number. Not a peep from them ever again!
Yes. Should have snipped some of that bloodied hair off Phoebe and bagged it, bagged the collar, but remember it was only Day 2 of Susan's disappearance so. Guess they assumed they would find her pretty soon. I finally washed the dog,having spoken to someone knowledgable in these things about human blood versus animal blood,testing etc, and they told me, the police would have returned if they thought there was a possibility it was of interest. Perhaps the police knew something we did not re Susan and they knew she was elsewhere so that's why they didn't take me seriously. Anyway, I learned that in fact they did go up there and search with some dogs but I should have come with to show them properly, and to see where they searched. They were there all Thursday that week but that was it.
I still have the blanket the dog slept on that week so there should be some DNA on it.
 
That day haunts me because I should have done two things:
I should have asked those campers, since they obviously spent the night up there Monday, and maybe Sunday took its a great spot. had they seen a woman up there at any point. They had to have walked to the bothy via the Crieff Road or perhaps uphill from the town with supplies, so they may have spotted her but because they were camping, no access to tv, may not have known she was now missing...
Should have taken some of phoebes hair and handed it direct to police that were actually with Donald so he could insist on a test

So Friday I began returning over and over again to that area, checking all the nooks and crannies, the disused quarries, waterways, ruins and the Dun, as you know. I've only veered away from this place because I can't find her here. But the dogs behaviour was so out of character.

So any comments,ideas, suggestions? Could a collie, a shepherding dog, attack and maul another animal after all?
We have a cute game, been playing it since she was a fluff puppy. I lie down on my back and she jumps all over me, barking, and rubbing her face in my neck and licking my ears and face, the more I giggle and protest, the more excited she gets. Sometimes I think she came across Susan after chasing a deer and because Susan was lying down, she thought "this is the game, I'll lick and kiss and rub my face in her neck"

Is this a fanciful thought ?
 
OMG Hippy, that's an amazing story, no wonder you haven't given up - I wouldn't either. I wonder if they've searched in the right place or not? Do you believe your dog may have found Susan?
The only thing that makes me think it isn't her is that you couldn't get to the spot that your dog did because if you can't, how could Susan...?
 
Covermecagney

I think on the day, the police took it seriously enough t call in the dogs to start searching but they weren't there long enough IMO.
I found out weeks later that the family did not think the lip balm would be hers
The forest is immense and extremely dense, planted to be used for pine timber so trees very close together and evergreen. I would lve to know more about the exact capabilities of heat seeking helicopters through thick surfaces, so that could be googled I guess.
Donald wants to have the dog blanket tested so just waiting to see what to do and will consult Lumberjill who I meet tomorrow
 
OMG Hippy, that's an amazing story, no wonder you haven't given up - I wouldn't either. I wonder if they've searched in the right place or not? Do you believe your dog may have found Susan?
The only thing that makes me think it isn't her is that you couldn't get to the spot that your dog did because if you can't, how could Susan...?

Well Purplepixii
Here's the thing: I couldn't follow the dog on the day because her route through the forest was a dog size route you see, but that might have been her shortcut to where she found what she found, not necessarily within that bit. There are lots of deer tracks, and other old paths, stone walls that a human would take, but a dog is just going the "as the crow flies" way.
I'll d a map. Let me get into my pyjamas and bed and do it once I've locked up for the night. Back in ten
 
A question for both HH and Donald:

Does the trail that you describe lead back to town (full circle) and would Susan have known about it? I guess it may have been marked on the trails map? If it was her intention to follow it back to the hotel, giving her enough time to clear her head, could she have taken a wrong turn somewhere along it?

You must must MUST get that blanket tested somehow, we need to know if it's human or animal blood.

God I wish I lived nearer Aberfeldy, I'd be up there searching with you in a heartbeat, especially after this "breaking news".
 
Here's a map showing my walk that day and also IN BLUE the various routes you can take downhill from my path to the town. Most of these routes I have tried to search thoroughly but I am willing to go back and try again.
In RED, number 1 the lodges at Moness
Number 2 the garden centre and 3 the trail map and parking
Number 4 is bothy/camping gear
PINK is where I followed dog and within the circle is where she ran off and where on subsequent days I have checked around about
YELLOW dot, lip balm

image.jpg
 
OK, lets imagine Susan followed the green line west, with the intention of taking the furthest west blue line back to town. Is that trail on the map? (do you have a photo of the trail map?). Could she have thought she was on the trail and headed north into the forest too early?

Also, is the bothy around no4? I have spotted a small red roofed building on google earth.
 
HippyHippy-I can certainly see why you searched where you did so many times; I always take it seriously when my dogs are acting out of character. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that something will be found in the spot where your collie was-and if it's not in your dog's nature to attack another animal, then I think it's not likely that she did so. You are even more awesome than I thought. Hopefully, the McLean family will have an answer soon, and the rest of us will, too.
 
Hippy - next time you're up there please would you take a photo of the trail map? Just curious to see whether it's likely Susan would have thought a round trip was a good bet, in the rain and with night drawing in.
 
Sorry to keep posting! See on your map just to the right of no4, there's a trail which bends to the west before straightening up north? Could she have attempted that trail but carried on west at the bend (it looks like there's a route there) and ended up in the pink area you've circled?
 
That day haunts me because I should have done two things:
I should have asked those campers, since they obviously spent the night up there Monday, and maybe Sunday took its a great spot. had they seen a woman up there at any point. They had to have walked to the bothy via the Crieff Road or perhaps uphill from the town with supplies, so they may have spotted her but because they were camping, no access to tv, may not have known she was now missing...
Should have taken some of phoebes hair and handed it direct to police that were actually with Donald so he could insist on a test

So Friday I began returning over and over again to that area, checking all the nooks and crannies, the disused quarries, waterways, ruins and the Dun, as you know. I've only veered away from this place because I can't find her here. But the dogs behaviour was so out of character.

So any comments,ideas, suggestions? Could a collie, a shepherding dog, attack and maul another animal after all?
We have a cute game, been playing it since she was a fluff puppy. I lie down on my back and she jumps all over me, barking, and rubbing her face in my neck and licking my ears and face, the more I giggle and protest, the more excited she gets. Sometimes I think she came across Susan after chasing a deer and because Susan was lying down, she thought "this is the game, I'll lick and kiss and rub my face in her neck"

Is this a fanciful thought ?
Wow. Am I the only one thinking perhaps the three campers could be involved somehow? I think you were very brave to continue on these searches all alone. Bravo to you, but please be careful!

As to your dog, I have the most sweetest, gentle, loving Havanese doggie named Lacy. She doesn't bite, she doesn't bark, she doesn't growl at other animals, as a matter of fact, if I didn't see her do the following myself I wouldn't believe it! One day she became very agitated, barking, crying and scratching behind my shed. I went over to see what was what. She had apparently been digging and uncovered a rabbit hole, complete with tiny pink babies. Just as I was about to ooh and ahh, she reached in, grabbed a baby, flung if in the air, then ate its head off. The whole time whining and barking. So weird and disturbing. Aside from that behavior shes quite a doll. Perhaps something akin to this? I really wish the officers would have taken samples of the blood. It seems almost irresponsible of them not to.

BTW, great job HippyH. I have been admiring your work, and also googling your beautiful countryside!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Here's a map showing my walk that day and also IN BLUE the various routes you can take downhill from my path to the town. Most of these routes I have tried to search thoroughly but I am willing to go back and try again.
In RED, number 1 the lodges at Moness
Number 2 the garden centre and 3 the trail map and parking
Number 4 is bothy/camping gear
PINK is where I followed dog and within the circle is where she ran off and where on subsequent days I have checked around about
YELLOW dot, lip balm

View attachment 78399

Gosh you really get a sense of how difficult and vast a search area it is. Thank you for all your efforts. I hope the weather stays dry for you and Lumberjill during your searches and you both stay safe. Thank you to you and Lumberjill for taking the time to give us frequent updates they are much appreciated.
 

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