UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[su5ie]

Bear in mind that in 1986 there was almost no CCTV, no DNA testing and not even the ability to track phone calls. Bill itemisation had to be requested and switched on at the exchange, and even then it only logged phone numbers dialled, not the phone numbers from which calls were received. I worked for a very solvent oil company in 1986, which was in no way short of funds to kit the office out, yet at that time our sales office of 30 people contained two IBM PC-XT computers, with no online capability, no sound, and only two programmes installed - Lotus 123 for spreadsheets and DataEase for databases. Secretaries did not have PCs, they had word processors. The mainstays of modern investigation and modern offices simply didn't exist.

Astonishingly her car was not preserved as a possible crime scene. A new logbook was issued on 4 December 1989 and it was taxed until 1 August 1990. It appears it was taxed for road use for four years after she disappeared.

I would avoid the Wikipedia article, it's appalling.

The claim that Cannan and SJL's DNA were found in his scrapped car is incorrect - DNA with a 60% match was found, which means nothing. It means that in the UK, about 30 million people would have matched that sample, and hence could have been in the car.

SJL had an appointment on Saturday afternoon to have her hair cut and coloured, which cost her £18 or so. While this made her lighter than the brunette head shots ill-advisedly published by her family, the last-known photo, taken on Saturday night, shows she wasn't all that blonde.

https://content.assets.pressassociation.io/2018/10/30100017/a718a2f0-45f6-4f4d-9cbe-7b3bf1a5b33e.jpg

What's more interesting is the suggestion that she had recently lost weight. If you look at her face in that photo, especially the chin, she does looks like she might have lost weight compared to other photos, perhaps because she had some new man on the scene.

Thank you for these links. Even though i have followed the case in available media im not well up on the ins and outs,.i had taken the Wikipedia page as fact .I'm appalled the car was not stored for longer although prehaps it was sold on in police auction as I know they hold certain stolen items for a number of years in my country and sell this way if not claimed .Was the car returned to her family ?. Was it in police storage for 3 years or her families possession?

Suzy from reports was walking to work at times and a lot of people loose weight from the face first and also through stress and as we get older too we can loose lower face volume

If suzy had her hair lightened on the Saturday and used hair dye was found in her house could it be that she tried to lighten it herself and made a mess of it (very hard to go from brunette to blonde at home )and went to hair salon to have fixed .seems crazy that she would dye it at home after the appointment . Is there verified reports of change in hair colour from work colleagues I wonder .


I would love a cold case investigation done on this in 2024 with fresh eyes .Seems to me it is resolvable in theory anyway. I think the connection with cannan is too easy and let's others off the hook . Was the pub ground gone over with ground penetrative rader or scanners .Were cavidier dogs used in the search or in the pub if not they should be now .


I had read that a mattress was discarded from b&b above pub shortly after suzy went missing was this located

 

[lee sumner]

Occams razor is truly the way this case needs to be looked at .I feel the same as you it was over complicated as Suzy's life seems to have been complicated .

If we simplify the facts and start from the office and the happenings in the couple of days over the weekend. We know her diary and chequebook were taken /lost .She went to work .She left the office. Everything else is speculation and hunches imo .

Questions I have are : Was she seen taking the purse from her handbag /walking out of the office with it in her hand or was it left in the car from that morning. Was it swabbed for prints along with the gearstick and steering wheel ,inside door etc .nowadays this would be common practice but in the 80s a lot of police work was done with door to door inquiries, hunches and Questions put to witnesses/ suspects usually good cop bad cop scenario.

The missing hairstraightners .where they ever located and if not did suzy usually have them in the car (potentially a murder weapon from back seat if someone was hiding in her car .
We know the passenger side door was locked .Were the back doors .if passenger side was locked How is it valid that suzy was seen driving with a man in the car presumably in front seat . Where is her car now ? What CCTV footage if any is there of suzy leaving the office is there proof she left ? How long was it since her house mate seen her and did she see suzy dye her hair or over the weekend? Did Suzy regularly run personal errands and write in work diary 'made up" clients ? Would she normally tell office staff if she was meeting potential buyers or would she keep it to herself? If suzy was meeting a potential client, would she normally retouch her make-up/ brush her hair / reapply perfume etc or bring her handbag ? Who was the rich man she had a date with and told her parents about ?Was he located ? When was this date ?. Surely phone evidence or places she went to in the 2 weeks prior were asked for CCTV or her diary looked at for a lead as regards this ???


If suzy went to the house for sale to meet a hook up Would she use empty properties for this purpose so as to keep her liaisons secret ? Was evidence found that she ever stepped into the property? Everybody leaves a trace whether a fingerprint ,hair or fibre . Was the pedals in her car tested for shoe prints? ,I know the seat was pulled back and it wasn't suzys "fit" The car was potentially the last place suzy was so I hope it was gone through with a fine tooth comb

SL had never wrote any phony appointments in her diary. detectives went back over all her appointments, and they were all genuine, not fake.

 

[lee sumner]

Presumably something of this kind is what the police assume happened. The devil is in the detail though. How did he get to the 37SR appointment; if they left there in her car, why was it seen outside 123StR; if they left there in his, when was her car removed; why is there no sign they went inside 37SR; why did she not just end the meeting as soon as Mr. Creepy turns up; if this was Cannan, why did he use his alleged prison nickname as a false name...

The supposition I think is that she took only her purse expecting a short errand and maybe a stop to buy lunch on the way back. You'd put a purse in a door pocket while driving so it stayed put but you'd take it with you; so the purse being found in the door suggests she had only stepped out of the car for a few seconds.

As OdA has commented, women did and do carry around things like hairbrushes in handbags but SJL's was left in the office. One can over-analyse but this suggests that she wasn't going to an appointment such that her personal appearance would matter. If she was meeting a possible new bloke she would have cared about this.

The diary and being reunited with it were more important in 1986 than generally recognised. It was as important as a phone today; it had everything in it, ex-directory and work extension numbers could only be obtained personally.

But it may have been where she made notes about buyers' reactions to viewings. If she went to 37SR expecting a genuine viewing with the hitherto-unknown Mr Kipper, at minimum she'd need some way to write down all the usual details about this new sales prospect that they don't yet have about him. Does he have a place to sell? Is it under offer, has anyone been instructed? What's his budget, what's his preferred area, what's his timing, flat or house, does he need to be near a Tube, does he need a mortgage, does he have a mortgage offer, has he retained a solicitor, who are they? Is he the decision maker, or is there a Mrs Kipper?

This is all basic stuff an agent needs to know. If a supposed buyer gives dumb answers they aren't plausible. I can't figure out why she would go to a viewing not yet knowing any of this and inequipped to note it all down, or why she'd go to meet an admirer without a hairbrush or mirror.

SL did not fill in a client requirement card for mr kipper. this is what i would have expected her to do straight away.

 

[su5ie]

SL had never wrote any phony appointments in her diary. detectives went back over all her appointments, and they were all genuine, not fake.

SL did not fill in a client requirement card for mr kipper. this is what i would have expected her to do straight away.

This is why I find it unusual she Allegedly didn't follow office protocol that day .Can you tell me if 37 Stevenage Road was on suzy's bookings for potential buyers or if it was just whoever happened to take the call from an interested client please

I fully believe SL intended to slip out and pick up her diary from the pub .The only fly in the ointment in that belief is Why her car was found on Stevenage Road and if she didn't return to the office after an hour or so why didn't alarm bells go off .she was potentially in an empty property with a client. Surely one would imagine there was some form of safeguarding in place for employees going into one on one situations especially regarding females .I can never understand why this was not an issue/ red flag for sturgis and with the keys from 37 being taken with her why did they not send someone to look at the property (her car may have been noticed sooner) particularly that suzy didn't take her handbag so was expecting to return or would she have regularly left it in the office ??

Seems to me and maybe I'm being harsh that although suzy had lots of friends ,work colleagues and associates, nobody really cared .

 

[su5ie]

There’s always the possibility that everyone in the Sturgis office assumes that SJL took the keys. By default they would have that large distinctive yellow key fob.
By the time they realised (if they ever did) that she didn’t take the keys they were to far down that road to change it.

the crimewatch episode starts off at SL flat in putney, and the man in the reconstruction is the real nick bryant who lived with SL. not an actor. we get to see the inside of SL flat which is interesting to me.

Hi Lee and Terry hope you don't mind I looked back at some of your older posts in other threads and came across these .
Lee I didn't know SL housemate was a male I had naively thought it was a female .obviously he was checked out and cleared .Must watch the reconstruction on crimewatch .

Terry I had also read SL didn't take the keys I wonder if she didn't why it was assumed she did and if a second set was in the office .is it common practice to get two copies in case one is mislaid in estate agents. And if suzy didn't take keys with her how reliable is KR (temporary secretary ) statement.

 

[su5ie]

setting up a podcast that would challenge the JC did it narrative would be very interesting. i wonder has this already been done, if not, this gives me something to think about. it would be a very interesting project to work on. i might set something up.

Hi Lee did you get any further along in the set up of this podcast .I would be very interested in this . Have you done previous podcasts relating to suzy or know of any recent ones I would be delighted to get a link please

 

[lee sumner]

This is why I find it unusual she Allegedly didn't follow office protocol that day .Can you tell me if 37 Stevenage Road was on suzy's bookings for potential buyers or if it was just whoever happened to take the call from an interested client please

I fully believe SL intended to slip out and pick up her diary from the pub .The only fly in the ointment in that belief is Why her car was found on Stevenage Road and if she didn't return to the office after an hour or so why didn't alarm bells go off .she was potentially in an empty property with a client. Surely one would imagine there was some form of safeguarding in place for employees going into one on one situations especially regarding females .I can never understand why this was not an issue/ red flag for sturgis and with the keys from 37 being taken with her why did they not send someone to look at the property (her car may have been noticed sooner) particularly that suzy didn't take her handbag so was expecting to return or would she have regularly left it in the office ??

Seems to me and maybe I'm being harsh that although suzy had lots of friends ,work colleagues and associates, nobody really cared .

the car was left on stevenage rd facing a large yellow sturgis for sale sign. that is not a coincidence. i believe placing the car there was part of the plan all along. mr kipper knew that house was for sale, and placed SL car there probably to make it appear she had a viewing there, but why, we know she didnt have the keys to stevenage rd. was he playing mind games.

 

[lee sumner]

Hi Lee did you get any further along in the set up of this podcast .I would be very interested in this . Have you done previous podcasts relating to suzy or know of any recent ones I would be delighted to get a link please

hi there. re, podcast. im still thinking about setting something up.

 

[Terryb808]

Hi Lee and Terry hope you don't mind I looked back at some of your older posts in other threads and came across these .
Lee I didn't know SL housemate was a male I had naively thought it was a female .obviously he was checked out and cleared .Must watch the reconstruction on crimewatch .

Terry I had also read SL didn't take the keys I wonder if she didn't why it was assumed she did and if a second set was in the office .is it common practice to get two copies in case one is mislaid in estate agents. And if suzy didn't take keys with her how reliable is KR (temporary secretary ) statement.

Hi, DV’s book “Finding Suzy” came up with the narrative that Suzy didn’t take the keys because she was only going to the PoW pub to collect her things.
Like everything in this case, nothing is certain. According to DV there was only one set of keys and the police used them to access 37 Shorrolds Road on Tuesday.
He also said there was no locks replaced and no door damage.
I tend to believe this because the police apparently broke into Suzy’s flat because they didn’t have the keys.
I pointed out in other posts that depending on the type of lock, it’s not difficult to open the door without keys and without doing any damage.
One small point that also supports DV is that when they found Suzy’s car, it didn’t have any property particulars inside.
Her car condition suggests she was snatched before she had time to do anything.

 

[su5ie]

the car was left on stevenage rd facing a large yellow sturgis for sale sign. that is not a coincidence. i believe placing the car there was part of the plan all along. mr kipper knew that house was for sale, and placed SL car there probably to make it appear she had a viewing there, but why, we know she didnt have the keys to stevenage rd. was he playing mind games.

Buy some time prehaps . I feel suzy's killer knew a lot about her and not the kind of information she might have gave a new suitor or casual hook up .Yes you may tell someone what you work at but where idk ? if cannan is the killer would suzy tell a new suitor where she worked in case it didn't work out and they turned up at her job . As it is assumed suzy was secretive would she leave such a possibility open ?

 

[su5ie]

Hi, DV’s book “Finding Suzy” came up with the narrative that Suzy didn’t take the keys because she was only going to the PoW pub to collect her things.
Like everything in this case, nothing is certain. According to DV there was only one set of keys and the police used them to access 37 Shorrolds Road on Tuesday.
He also said there was no locks replaced and no door damage.
I tend to believe this because the police apparently broke into Suzy’s flat because they didn’t have the keys.
I pointed out in other posts that depending on the type of lock, it’s not difficult to open the door without keys and without doing any damage.
One small point that also supports DV is that when they found Suzy’s car, it didn’t have any property particulars inside.
Her car condition suggests she was snatched before she had time to do anything.

Some doors can open with a lolly stick lol . The car for me is the first crime scene. I feel it wasn't used to transport her body because of times that neighbours reported seeing it parked up from about 12.45 overlapping a garage I believe on Stevenage road . A person who is strangled won't necessarily leave blood staining so I feel this was method used .

I feel Suzy was taken as she was about to step into her car .do you know where her colleague parked it that morning as suzy Allegedly ask where it was .Was it out of sight of prying eyes ? I don't think it was a lone wolf as someone would have to park her car and kill / dump suzy at similar times . How far was suzys office to the pub ? And what is the distance from office to pub and pub to Stevenage Road and what is the distance from office to Stevenage rd has this information been published. I do think her diary and her being killed are connected. Whatever was in there and if someone read it they didn't like what they were reading .

I've seen it suggested that drug dealing was going on around the pub / Lane way and wild speculation that suzy was taken into witness protection. Imo this is outrageous conspiracy as I'm sure if this was the case there would have been a major trial in the following months of her going missing .


It's hard to untangle the truth from the Web of opinions, verifiable witness statements and speculation over the years and the longer the threads the harder it becomes and the lie becomes the truth thank you Terry for getting back to me

 

[su5ie]

hi there. re, podcast. im still thinking about setting something up.

Thanks Lee for the reply. If you do can you put in thread if that is allowed or reply to me directly please .I feel a linear clarification of all facts is needed by someone whom has good knowledge of the case as a whole to root out fact from fiction. Maybe your the one for the job and who knows it may help piece together enough factual evidence that leads to either a fresh investigation or as a reference point for those like me who would like to know more but find it difficult to see the wood from the trees in this case

 

[Terryb808]

Some doors can open with a lolly stick lol . The car for me is the first crime scene. I feel it wasn't used to transport her body because of times that neighbours reported seeing it parked up from about 12.45 overlapping a garage I believe on Stevenage road . A person who is strangled won't necessarily leave blood staining so I feel this was method used .

I feel Suzy was taken as she was about to step into her car .do you know where her colleague parked it that morning as suzy Allegedly ask where it was .Was it out of sight of prying eyes ? I don't think it was a lone wolf as someone would have to park her car and kill / dump suzy at similar times . How far was suzys office to the pub ? And what is the distance from office to pub and pub to Stevenage Road and what is the distance from office to Stevenage rd has this information been published. I do think her diary and her being killed are connected. Whatever was in there and if someone read it they didn't like what they were reading .

I've seen it suggested that drug dealing was going on around the pub / Lane way and wild speculation that suzy was taken into witness protection. Imo this is outrageous conspiracy as I'm sure if this was the case there would have been a major trial in the following months of her going missing .


It's hard to untangle the truth from the Web of opinions, verifiable witness statements and speculation over the years and the longer the threads the harder it becomes and the lie becomes the truth thank you Terry for getting back to me

Her car was parked in Whittingstall Road, just across the road from the office. All the locations are only minutes away by car. The Prince of Wales pub is on Upper Richmond Road.
You can use Google maps to get accurate timings.
There is a tenuous link between the PoW pub and Stevenage Road, it was popular with Fulham Football fans. KH would have know this, and IMO it might have been a reason why her car ended up there.
However, DV didn’t mention this in his book.

 

[su5ie]

Her car was parked in Whittingstall Road, just across the road from the office. All the locations are only minutes away by car. The Prince of Wales pub is on Upper Richmond Road.
You can use Google maps to get accurate timings.
There is a tenuous link between the PoW pub and Stevenage Road, it was popular with Fulham Football fans. KH would have know this, and IMO it might have been a reason why her car ended up there.
However, DV didn’t mention this in his book.

Who is KH is it the stand in landlord of PoW. Was whittingstall road hidden from full view of the office window, I've seen footage of road sturgis was on and wondered did any of her colleagues see suzy or her car pull off at the time she left or later .Is it possible to abduct someone from their car on whittington rd without Being seen ?
.it seems to me it was a road with a few small businesses and a main road not a side street in the back end of nowhere .
Seem very audacious to abduct/ take someone without there willingness to get in to the car .Was suzy feisty would she scream or fight back if it was a stranger .
What's your theory and thoughts on what happened ?and do you think it will ever be solved ?

 

[su5ie]

Officers hunting missing Suzy Lamplugh find possible new clue as forensic review launched in 37-year-old case

It appears Suzys car was forensically examined throughly and samples still in storage . Hopefully something comes of it and with new developments in technology the case can be solved

 

[tes1984]

The car wasn't exactly kept in secure conditions though.

The recent Carol Morgan murder trial shows that UK juries and the CPS can still be convinced by purely circumstantial evidence.

 

[Terryb808]

Who is KH is it the stand in landlord of PoW. Was whittingstall road hidden from full view of the office window, I've seen footage of road sturgis was on and wondered did any of her colleagues see suzy or her car pull off at the time she left or later .Is it possible to abduct someone from their car on whittington rd without Being seen ?
.it seems to me it was a road with a few small businesses and a main road not a side street in the back end of nowhere .
Seem very audacious to abduct/ take someone without there willingness to get in to the car .Was suzy feisty would she scream or fight back if it was a stranger .
What's your theory and thoughts on what happened ?and do you think it will ever be solved ?

KH is the temp pub landlord, Whittingstall Road is diagonally opposite to the Sturgis office. The further down Whittingstall you go, the quieter it is.
IMO you could abduct someone from Whittingstall and not be detected.
However, why would you move Suzy’s car?
If this was a single perpetrator who is a serial offender the chances of it being solved are minimal.

 

[WiseOwl]

KH is the temp pub landlord, Whittingstall Road is diagonally opposite to the Sturgis office. The further down Whittingstall you go, the quieter it is.
IMO you could abduct someone from Whittingstall and not be detected.
However, why would you move Suzy’s car?
If this was a single perpetrator who is a serial offender the chances of it being solved are minimal.

IMO the most likely solution is that the Sturgis staff were slightly off with their timings when Suzy left the office, 5 - 10 minutes out maybe? Suzy then went to Stevenage Road and parked up where her car was found, overlapping the driveway to the garage.

Of course, the next thing to determine is why she went to Stevenage Road in the first place, instead of going to Shorrolds Road as per her diary.

 

[su5ie]

KH is the temp pub landlord, Whittingstall Road is diagonally opposite to the Sturgis office. The further down Whittingstall you go, the quieter it is.
IMO you could abduct someone from Whittingstall and not be detected.
However, why would you move Suzy’s car?
If this was a single perpetrator who is a serial offender the chances of it being solved are minimal.

The movement of suzy's car is a strange one .A lone perpetrator previously unknown to suzy would not move her car unless she was threatened with a weapon and shoved over to passenger side , from drivers seat and perp drove off . In this scenario chances of suzy being found are slim to none especially after the passage of time .
While this is not unheard of ,it is very opportunistic and would have entailed being in the right place at the right time ,no witnesses that I have seen report anyone lurking around the Sturgis office or Whittingstall Road .

The red roses delivered to the office for suzy has the sender ever come forward or is this another lie entangled with the truth . If fact ? was this a strange occurrence or would Suzy get flowers delivered to her home /Workplace sporadically/regularly from admirers ?.I personally don't see this delivery as out of place unless it had never happened before . Flower deliveries have waned a little with the advancement of technology but would have been a regular occurrence in the 80s for a glamorous lady .

KH my thoughts on a temp landlord: if a long standing member of staff . Was he having an affair with suzy ? Was he implicated by helping the murderer ? Was he married / engaged ? Was his Wife friendly with suzy ? Did he ring suzy about 'finding " her diary? Was he in charge on the Friday? Suzy had dinner date on the Friday , .Did her date go to the PoW with her ?,How long was KH temping for ?

I had originally asked did Suzy’s colleagues not raise the alarm when she failed to return to work . I researched and they did ,abet much later in the evening.,They rang DL and law enforcement seemed be contacted quickly from what I read . So Suzy would have had to be gotten rid of quickly . Was she placed in one of the b&b rooms ?Was the alleged disposed of mattress located by investigators ? Why was the PoW not more throughly searched ? Was local police on the payroll to "allow " lock ins ? The turning of a blind eye to illegal goings on ? Was a local inspector a patron of the PoW and friendly with barstaff /local patrons ? Did any of the "questioned " have family in Law enforcement?

How true is the report of the blowfly infestation at the PoW ? I fail to see if this is the case why the PoW was not investigated more . These insects only come for dead flesh . A woman has gone missing and the place she very frequently visited, is infested with the "death" fly and not one patron reports a suspicion .

 

[su5ie]

IMO the most likely solution is that the Sturgis staff were slightly off with their timings when Suzy left the office, 5 - 10 minutes out maybe? Suzy then went to Stevenage Road and parked up where her car was found, overlapping the driveway to the garage.

Of course, the next thing to determine is why she went to Stevenage Road in the first place, instead of going to Shorrolds Road as per her diary.

Have the times been cross checked with Suzy’s colleague whom visited the bank . The bank should've had an exact time transaction was made ,which would narrow times and if you calculate estimate time ,distance, speed from bank to office by car or by walking depending on mode of transport used ,route taken ,it would at least give a more accurate time of when colleague returned or what time they left the bank

I have read Sturgis staff were not given a lunch hour per se ,Could times been originally stated as different as colleague took some time to themselves as well as errand to the bank ? Even in a situation like Suzy’s disappearance ,people worry about themselves and prehaps losing their job .