UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

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I will find it now WiseOwl I should have saved the link but as far as I remember both womens DNA was found in the car but was not enough to ensure a conviction
if I'm mistaken and it was Sandra's and Shirley's I will ask the mod to delete my post on the matter if you can tell me who that is .

As far as I remember it was when police located a red ford sierra in a scrapyard when they had a fresh look at suzys case circa 2001

Thank you for pointing this out as I would not like to mislead

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JC's entry on Wikipedia says that 2 hairs found inside a red Ford Sierra (that he had access to) matched the DNA of SC. However, Wikipedia is not an approved or indeed reliable source of information, and i cannot find anything in MSM that confirms this story.

If you could help with finding a reliable source of info, that would be great!
 
JC's entry on Wikipedia says that 2 hairs found inside a red Ford Sierra (that he had access to) matched the DNA of SC. However, Wikipedia is not an approved or indeed reliable source of information, and i cannot find anything in MSM that confirms this story.

If you could help with finding a reliable source of info, that would be great!
I will look further into this ,it does mention a criminologist so prehaps I will search his name and see if I can find anything about his work . I apologise again and sincerely hope my post has not misled I was not aware of misinformation on Wikipedia and will know for further posts thank you
Found one article relating to suzys dna will look for sandra

Hopefully These links help and are an approved source WiseOwl


Criminologist speaks out on details linking Sutton Coldfield sex monster to murder of Suzy Lamplugh
 
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I would like to suggest a seperate thread for the rapes Cannan is suspected of.

Was he the 'Houses For Sale Rapist'?
No, basically. Rapist, West Midlands, house = clearly Cannan. Except it wasn't. First, this criminal turned up at houses with a 'for sale' board outside and assaulted the owner if female. He didn't book appointments with an estate agent. Second, this criminal didn't kill anyone, so there are witnesses to his appearance, so a cursory check of his description would tell whether this was Cannan or not. You never hear of this being done. The West Midlands Police have never shown any interest in Cannan for this either. This case is frequently included in TV documentaries about SJL essentially to implicate Cannan in it by insinuation.

The Wikipedia article on this case is utter tripe BTW, and 100% worthless as a source.

IMO Wilson never goes against the official line.
Indeed, he knows which side his bread is buttered, as do documentary producers. Imagine if you interviewed a Lamplugh detective and put it to him that they made a total mess of the case in 1986, tried to frame JC to shut DL up, and only like JC for this because he's in jail (so even though they can't get him into court, at least he's not walking the streets). You would find it very difficult afterwards to get the police to co-operate with any more of your documentaries.
As an office worker in the 80s, I carried a pocket diary in my handbag, which I used to record appointments, other aides-memoire and also telephone numbers. I think this is more likely to be the type of diary that Suzy kept in her bag, not something extremely personal.

For this reason I doubt she was in a particular hurry to get it back once she knew it and the cheque book were safe and being kept for her.
Up to a point. We've had 25 to 30 years to get used to round-the-clock reachability but ~40 years ago life wasn't like that. We're used nowadays to having all our contacts handy on one device, but think how stuffed you'd be if you lost your phone. You can get a new handset and memory card, but it won't have any of your contacts on it.

That's how irksome it would have been to lose your diary; you didn't have the numbers backed up anywhere. Also, bear in mind nobody had a mobile phone in 1986. They didn't become ubiquitous for another ten years. So if you needed to call someone, you had to get them at home or work. You couldn't call them on a phone they carried around and catch them on the move. People were uncontactable when not at home or work. Even answerphones were a novelty. If SJL needed to speak to anyone that afternoon - such as the 6pm viewing to confirm or change it - she needed the diary back before they left their desk for the day. This would be reason enough to go and get it.

This is partly why I don't believe AL's story about the Sunday phone call with SJL. She went to the beach without him, he followed, she left without him, he followed, she went to her mother's house, and then at 10pm she calls him? After she's been ignoring him all day, suddenly there's something she needs to have a conversation about? Where did she know where to phone him? She's not seen him since she left the beach, how does she know where he is?

In a documentary he also claims he went to the PoW with her on Friday and her stuff was "stolen". If it was stolen, why did it turn up again at the same place two nights later? Did the thief get an attack of remorse?
 
I was not aware of misinformation on Wikipedia and will know for further posts thank you
There's a comment in the Talk page about it which sums up the main issues quite well

Re-investigations of the case in the 2000s established that John Cannan was the prime suspect

This is backwards. In 2000 Diana Lamplugh told the police she thought Cannan did it. The investigation was reopened to try to pin it on Cannan. It did not look at anyone else (it did not, for example, look at what other sex offenders had just been released from prison in July 1986).
although the media had already speculated that Cannan was responsible for Lamplugh's abduction and death at the time of her disappearance.

Completely wrong. Cannan was not mentioned before 1989, after he was convicted of murdering Shirley Banks, and he was mentioned by newspapers. Nobody had heard of him in 1986.
Cannan bears a striking resemblance to the photofits of the man seen with Lamplugh on the day she vanished.

There was one photofit and one artist's sketch, which look different to each other. Which of these does Cannan resemble, and in whose opinion? After the reconstruction was broadcast in October 1986, the police received a number of calls from the public pointing out that Suzy's boss at the estate agency, who appeared in the reconstruction and who went to the house to look for her, looks remarkably similar to the pencil sketch. A writer has suggested the same sketch looks like Fred West. It also looks a bit like the drummer out of Ultravox. Cannan was never placed on an identity parade so there is no witness corroboration of this supposed resemblance. Some months later, a BMW belonging to a Mr Kiper from Antwerp was found abandoned in London. This Mr Kiper was traced. The only witness who supposedly saw "Mr Kipper", and described him as of medium height and aged between 25 and 30, later declared that the short, podgy 44-year-old Antwerp man was a dead ringer for "Mr Kipper".
Cannan's nickname in prison was also "Mr Kipper" due to his preference for wearing kipper-style broad ties.

This trope has never been substantiated, and is clearly not true. First, it emerged only in 2000, 14 years later, after the police indicated they were trying to fit this to Cannan, and after witty lags started calling him this as a joke. Second, the source was one other criminal; there is no evidence that Cannan was generally so known. Third, kipper ties went out in the 1970s. Fourth, in prison he'd have worn whatever he was told. Fifth, other origins for this supposed name have been mooted, including that he liked kippers, and kipped (napped) a lot; which is true? Sixth, why would a sex criminal use an alias that led back to himself? Seventh, what did the police do to rule out the possibility of an ex-prisoner informing on Cannan to exercise a grudge?
Banks' car was discovered hidden and repainted in his garage with a false number plate affixed reading "SLP 386". Police believe this number plate could refer to Suzy Lamplugh (SLP) and 1986, the year of her murder.

'Speculated' would be more accurate. They had no evidence for this.
Alternatively, police believed it could also be coordinates on a map

Which they searched and found nothing.
He claimed that he had bought the car off a "Bristol businessman" who was responsible for "the murders of Shirley Banks, Suzy Lamplugh and another girl", and that this man was in a lot of trouble.

The context for this was that he tried to explain away the car to the police by saying he'd bought it in an auction in Bristol. He was trying to suggest that whoever sold it to him was their man. When pressed, he could not describe the layout of the car auction site, and it was clear he had never been there. He was not confessing to any of these crimes; he was ineptly trying to say that a big boy did it and ran away.
Cannan himself was known for masquerading as a Bristol businessman.

He was from the Midlands. He did not move to Bristol until 1987. Cannan was not "known for masquerading as a Bristol businessman" in 1986.
the prison he was released from was three miles from the estate agent office Lamplugh worked in.

It is 4.5 miles away, not three.
In the time leading up to disappearance, it was later disclosed

By whom?
that Lamplugh had a new boyfriend from the Bristol area, to which Cannan later moved

I.e. he wasn't from Bristol in 1986. Suzy's supposed liaison with a man from Bristol happened two years before, at a time when Cannan was in jail.
and from where his family were from

His family were not from Bristol. They were from Sutton Coldfield, a hundred miles away north-east of Birmingham.
he was known to have had work experience in the area at the time while on day release from the open prison.

His work experience was in Acton, which is actually further away from Fulham than Du Cane Road, where the Wormwood Scrubs hostel was.
Witnesses came forward to tell police that they had seen a man and a woman resembling Lamplugh and Cannan having an argument in a car on the day of the disappearance

They came forward fourteen years later. Apparently, despite having forgotten this incident for that long, they remembered every detail including the day, date and time - after the police named Cannan.
and that the car was a dark-coloured left-hand BMW.

Cannan did not own a BMW in 1986 and the one he later acquired was RHD
This was significant as Cannan owned a dark-coloured left-hand drive BMW, which he used to commit crimes with a fellow inmate.

Cannan did not own a BMW in 1986 and the one he later acquired was RHD. In July 1986 he co-owned a red Sierra with an inmate. The police had already said it was Cannan, Cannan later had a BMW, so the "witnesses" described the car they thought Cannan had. Unfortunately, he didn't own it until 1987.
Cannan had also shown up uninvited to a house that was for sale in Fulham days before Lamplugh was last seen believing that the young female occupant was alone in the house, and started acting strangely until the woman's husband appeared, causing Cannan to quickly leave.

A claim first made, with total recall of day, date and time, fourteen years later.
Witnesses also placed Cannan looking into Lamplugh's estate agent's window the day before she went missing.

A claim first made, with total recall of day, date and time, fourteen years later. It's 2021: who do we remember looking in a shop window in 2007? How do we know this wasn't Suzy's boss?
Cannan did not have an alibi for the days after leaving prison and conveniently does not recall where he was, despite having an impeccable memory of other events at the time.

Cannan did have an alibi and knows where he was. He went back to Sutton Coldfield and gave his mother, sister and brother-in-law as persons able to verify this. The police did not check in 1990 and all three were dead by 2000. They decided this meant he had no alibi. In fact, he had provided one at the time. He had nowhere else to go and had no money.
The Crown Prosecution Service agreed that the police reinvestigation in the early 2000s had been excellent and thorough, but ultimately decided that there was insufficient evidence to charge Cannan with the murder of Lamplugh.

The police so strongly felt Cannan was responsible, however, that they announced in a press conference in November 2002, in an extremely rare move, that they believed Cannan was responsible.


This was the family's influence. The investigation surfaced no evidence, which is why the CPS threw it out.
While in prison, Cannan told a psychiatrist that he might well "reveal all" about Lamplugh when his mother died.

Which she has and yet he hasn't. He's a psychopath; psychopaths say things like this to get attention.
He will be eligible for parole in 2022.

And the Parole Board can decide to keep him in jail for killing Suzy, even though he's never been charged, and the CPS have seen no evidence on which to do so.
The problem with this section is that it repeats gossip, hearsay, conjecture and inaccuracies as facts even though they have all been debunked in the public domain, and even though the CPS thinks they amount to exactly nothing.

All it needs to say is that the actual "case" against Cannan originated with Diana Lamplugh. It amounts to his being about 5 miles away from Fulham until the week before Suzy's disappearance, and an offender. Everything else that purports to be "evidence" surfaced only after he was named and after the press decided that he looked like "Mr Kipper". It all came from people who noticed nothing at the time, but who, 14 years later, remembered exactly what they seen and when and where. The CPS were not persuaded and declined to act.

It's not for the article, but it is reminiscent of the Rachel Nickell case, when the judge instructed the jury to throw out the charges against Colin Stagg, and the police irritably announced that they weren't looking for anyone else. Some years later, someone else was convicted.
 
I will look further into this ,it does mention a criminologist so prehaps I will search his name and see if I can find anything about his work . I apologise again and sincerely hope my post has not misled I was not aware of misinformation on Wikipedia and will know for further posts thank you
Found one article relating to suzys dna will look for sandra

Hopefully These links help and are an approved source WiseOwl


Criminologist speaks out on details linking Sutton Coldfield sex monster to murder of Suzy Lamplugh
Thanks and don't worry about posting info that's not from an approved source - i'm sure we've all done it at one time or another!

Ah Birmingham Live, yes an approved source and from my old neck of the woods and indeed JC's as well!
 
No, basically. Rapist, West Midlands, house = clearly Cannan. Except it wasn't. First, this criminal turned up at houses with a 'for sale' board outside and assaulted the owner if female. He didn't book appointments with an estate agent. Second, this criminal didn't kill anyone, so there are witnesses to his appearance, so a cursory check of his description would tell whether this was Cannan or not. You never hear of this being done. The West Midlands Police have never shown any interest in Cannan for this either. This case is frequently included in TV documentaries about SJL essentially to implicate Cannan in it by insinuation.

The Wikipedia article on this case is utter tripe BTW, and 100% worthless as a source.


Indeed, he knows which side his bread is buttered, as do documentary producers. Imagine if you interviewed a Lamplugh detective and put it to him that they made a total mess of the case in 1986, tried to frame JC to shut DL up, and only like JC for this because he's in jail (so even though they can't get him into court, at least he's not walking the streets). You would find it very difficult afterwards to get the police to co-operate with any more of your documentaries.

Up to a point. We've had 25 to 30 years to get used to round-the-clock reachability but ~40 years ago life wasn't like that. We're used nowadays to having all our contacts handy on one device, but think how stuffed you'd be if you lost your phone. You can get a new handset and memory card, but it won't have any of your contacts on it.

That's how irksome it would have been to lose your diary; you didn't have the numbers backed up anywhere. Also, bear in mind nobody had a mobile phone in 1986. They didn't become ubiquitous for another ten years. So if you needed to call someone, you had to get them at home or work. You couldn't call them on a phone they carried around and catch them on the move. People were uncontactable when not at home or work. Even answerphones were a novelty. If SJL needed to speak to anyone that afternoon - such as the 6pm viewing to confirm or change it - she needed the diary back before they left their desk for the day. This would be reason enough to go and get it.

This is partly why I don't believe AL's story about the Sunday phone call with SJL. She went to the beach without him, he followed, she left without him, he followed, she went to her mother's house, and then at 10pm she calls him? After she's been ignoring him all day, suddenly there's something she needs to have a conversation about? Where did she know where to phone him? She's not seen him since she left the beach, how does she know where he is?

In a documentary he also claims he went to the PoW with her on Friday and her stuff was "stolen". If it was stolen, why did it turn up again at the same place two nights later? Did the thief get an attack of remorse?
I also don't buy his story about the phone call on the Sunday night, if there was one then it would be him calling Suzy.

I don't believe the Friday night out with Suzy went that well for AL. Why didn't he go to the 21st party on the Saturday night? It was full of people from the Putney Set, which would include him, so how come he wasn't there?

Also on the Sunday, Suzy went to Worthing without him and came back home without him too. They were supposed to meet at 8pm, but why didn't Suzy just come home with AL? It also says in the book that AL was delayed in coming back from London, but Suzy and her friends seemed to get back in plenty of time. If all the info about the Sunday came from AL, then i do wonder how much of it is actually the truth?
 
No, basically. Rapist, West Midlands, house = clearly Cannan. Except it wasn't. First, this criminal turned up at houses with a 'for sale' board outside and assaulted the owner if female. He didn't book appointments with an estate agent. Second, this criminal didn't kill anyone, so there are witnesses to his appearance, so a cursory check of his description would tell whether this was Cannan or not. You never hear of this being done. The West Midlands Police have never shown any interest in Cannan for this either. This case is frequently included in TV documentaries about SJL essentially to implicate Cannan in it by insinuation.

The Wikipedia article on this case is utter tripe BTW, and 100% worthless as a source.


Indeed, he knows which side his bread is buttered, as do documentary producers. Imagine if you interviewed a Lamplugh detective and put it to him that they made a total mess of the case in 1986, tried to frame JC to shut DL up, and only like JC for this because he's in jail (so even though they can't get him into court, at least he's not walking the streets). You would find it very difficult afterwards to get the police to co-operate with any more of your documentaries.

Up to a point. We've had 25 to 30 years to get used to round-the-clock reachability but ~40 years ago life wasn't like that. We're used nowadays to having all our contacts handy on one device, but think how stuffed you'd be if you lost your phone. You can get a new handset and memory card, but it won't have any of your contacts on it.

That's how irksome it would have been to lose your diary; you didn't have the numbers backed up anywhere. Also, bear in mind nobody had a mobile phone in 1986. They didn't become ubiquitous for another ten years. So if you needed to call someone, you had to get them at home or work. You couldn't call them on a phone they carried around and catch them on the move. People were uncontactable when not at home or work. Even answerphones were a novelty. If SJL needed to speak to anyone that afternoon - such as the 6pm viewing to confirm or change it - she needed the diary back before they left their desk for the day. This would be reason enough to go and get it.

This is partly why I don't believe AL's story about the Sunday phone call with SJL. She went to the beach without him, he followed, she left without him, he followed, she went to her mother's house, and then at 10pm she calls him? After she's been ignoring him all day, suddenly there's something she needs to have a conversation about? Where did she know where to phone him? She's not seen him since she left the beach, how does she know where he is?

In a documentary he also claims he went to the PoW with her on Friday and her stuff was "stolen". If it was stolen, why did it turn up again at the same place two nights later? Did the thief get an attack of remorse?
I'm impressed by your logic here regarding AL and do believe there is definitely a case for a motive .I'm currently researching this aspect .

While I understand he is alleged to have a cast iron alibi .I would pose a serious question over this . He had access to suzy's belongings and inserted himself into her weekend without her wanting him to join her . How does he know it was stolen and not dropped accidentally, couple that with outburst with DV and claims of being her boyfriend after she went missing. Allegedly this was at the bequest of DL or was it ? He was on holiday the previous week ,Could this be the tanned individual? Could he have been pestering Suzy over the weekend and Monday morning? Sturgis staff state she was stressed over her diary ,Was this an excuse by suzy and she was really stressed over a nagging ex boyfriend? We are not really going to confide in work colleagues about our complicated love life .
Suzy knew the diary was in the POW as stated it was on her route home .AL is also very tall and He also inserted himself close to the family and appeared in pleas with DL Think Ian Huntley or Joe o rielly (who killed his wife Rachel in ireland ) both gave televised interviews to the media .I think it's a lead worth following up on
 
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I don't buy into the POW or Wetlands theories whatsoever.

The partial DNA could fit millions of men, so is no particular link at all to Cannan.

The phone call from a female is interesting as it's a very usual signature. The number plate is interesting but wasn't made up how you've presented it...
HI Terry, so just out of interest do you completely reject David Videcettes research? as this revolves around POW,IM just interesetd in different perspective ,THe relief landlord is dodgy as hell but putting her under the pub floor was risky too, Sorry if covering old ground
 
I also don't buy his story about the phone call on the Sunday night, if there was one then it would be him calling Suzy.

I don't believe the Friday night out with Suzy went that well for AL. Why didn't he go to the 21st party on the Saturday night? It was full of people from the Putney Set, which would include him, so how come he wasn't there?

Also on the Sunday, Suzy went to Worthing without him and came back home without him too. They were supposed to meet at 8pm, but why didn't Suzy just come home with AL? It also says in the book that AL was delayed in coming back from London, but Suzy and her friends seemed to get back in plenty of time. If all the info about the Sunday came from AL, then i do wonder how much of it is actually the truth?
You do have to seriously question his version of events, Suzy wasn't there to validate them .
Was the alibi that he was in his office on the Monday verified by other staff members? And if my information is incorrect who was his alibi and did anyone else confirm they had broken up on the Friday or were together in the POW .
Can anyone verify if they had an argument while in the PoW on the Friday or if there was tension
.How about restaurant staff ,where they had their meal was the food eaten or disregarded as a break up happened ? Did they appear as a loved up couple in the restaurant or distant and a lot of napkin wringing or slugging of alcohol (signs of a tense couple )
 
You do have to seriously question his version of events, Suzy wasn't there to validate them .
Was the alibi that he was in his office on the Monday verified by other staff members? And if my information is incorrect who was his alibi and did anyone else confirm they had broken up on the Friday or were together in the POW .
Can anyone verify if they had an argument while in the PoW on the Friday or if there was tension
.How about restaurant staff ,where they had their meal was the food eaten or disregarded as a break up happened ? Did they appear as a loved up couple in the restaurant or distant and a lot of napkin wringing or slugging of alcohol (signs of a tense couple )
In AS's book it details what AL did on the day Suzy disappeared (pages 16 - 17):

He reached his office about 9am. He had meetings in the office that morning, and also one out of the office. He went to lunch with a female friend in her company's dining room in the city, and had more meetings in the afternoon. He stayed in his office until 7pm, the he left for a pre-arranged dinner.

That afternoon he had tried to phone Suzy at Sturgis at 4.45 and left a message. He had last spoke to her on the phone the previous evening at 10.15. He had known her for 11 months and had been going out with her for 3 months. He was a member of the Putney Set, and was an enthusiastic windsurfer.

It also goes on to say:

Business contacts, friends, were all duly noted down by the police: all would be thoroughly checked, though no-one had any reason to suppose that AL was anything other than innocent. It would nevertheless take a lot of work, and 11 statements from others, before he could positively and formally eliminated from the inquiry into Suzy's disappearance.
 
In AS's book it details what AL did on the day Suzy disappeared (pages 16 - 17):

He reached his office about 9am. He had meetings in the office that morning, and also one out of the office. He went to lunch with a female friend in her company's dining room in the city, and had more meetings in the afternoon. He stayed in his office until 7pm, the he left for a pre-arranged dinner.

That afternoon he had tried to phone Suzy at Sturgis at 4.45 and left a message. He had last spoke to her on the phone the previous evening at 10.15. He had known her for 11 months and had been going out with her for 3 months. He was a member of the Putney Set, and was an enthusiastic windsurfer.

It also goes on to say:

Business contacts, friends, were all duly noted down by the police: all would be thoroughly checked, though no-one had any reason to suppose that AL was anything other than innocent. It would nevertheless take a lot of work, and 11 statements from others, before he could positively and formally eliminated from the inquiry into Suzy's disappearance.
I think it's fair to say then that all avenues and alibis were checked to eliminate AL.
 
HI Terry, so just out of interest do you completely reject David Videcettes research? as this revolves around POW,IM just interesetd in different perspective ,THe relief landlord is dodgy as hell but putting her under the pub floor was risky too, Sorry if covering old ground
Certainly not DV’s research, he incinerates that the PoW temp landlord is dodgy with proving so.
Okay, he’s an ex-cop so you could say he’s got a sense for things like this.
IMO you need proof, and there’s none provided in the book.
You can’t fault the logic, but tha doesn’t stand up in court.
 
Certainly not DV’s research, he incinerates that the PoW temp landlord is dodgy with proving so.
Okay, he’s an ex-cop so you could say he’s got a sense for things like this.
IMO you need proof, and there’s none provided in the book.
You can’t fault the logic, but tha doesn’t stand up in court.
I get you . I think the police said he had to provide a witness who saw her go to the pub that day before they would act. It looks like his work will go to waste. I reread the Andrew Stephens book, and he points out the discrepancies in the relief landlords account from 1986 to 1987 assuring us its purely a mistake. Maybe he picked up on something ?
 
In AS's book it details what AL did on the day Suzy disappeared (pages 16 - 17):

He reached his office about 9am. He had meetings in the office that morning, and also one out of the office. He went to lunch with a female friend in her company's dining room in the city, and had more meetings in the afternoon. He stayed in his office until 7pm, the he left for a pre-arranged dinner.

That afternoon he had tried to phone Suzy at Sturgis at 4.45 and left a message. He had last spoke to her on the phone the previous evening at 10.15. He had known her for 11 months and had been going out with her for 3 months. He was a member of the Putney Set, and was an enthusiastic windsurfer.

It also goes on to say:

Business contacts, friends, were all duly noted down by the police: all would be thoroughly checked, though no-one had any reason to suppose that AL was anything other than innocent. It would nevertheless take a lot of work, and 11 statements from others, before he could positively and formally eliminated from the inquiry into Suzy's disappearance.
I have not read AS book and am finding it difficult to get my hands on it so thank you for the extract .

However, currently I'm just looking at all the scenarios so Sturgis Staff ,PoW staff ,ex ,casual and current boyfriend ,friends of SL and of course the famous Cannan with an open mind without narrowing in on any particular suspect, I'm looking at everyone as innocent including Cannan and trying to look at new possibilities .
I feel over the years everyone has formed an opinion on who the killer may be and has provided detailed analysis often containing "evidence" of why they favour a particular scenarios in other words honing the evidence to suit their particular theory .The one thing everyone has in common is a desire to see the perpetrator brought to justice and Suzy to be afforded a proper and dignified burial

I'm so grateful in these threads to everyone who takes the time to respond and share what they know and information that I would not know otherwise is given so I certainly don't disregard anything .

Witnesses and Alibis can never really be afforded the luxury of being taken for granted. People can give alibis for different reasons and Witnesses can mix up times and dates . Obviously if these are collaborated and as you say 11 statements eliminated AL so therefore he must be innocent .

I just find it hard to explain away his outburst with DV and while he may have found it frustrating being probedd It was a remarkable statement to make all the same

.imo and psychologically speaking this is what scenario you would want in a police interview to break a suspect ,ask if there is anything the detainee wants to get off their chest . A show of Anger is very revealing as it has shown the Questioner you have touched a nerve and you want to keep probing in that moment to get the truest answer. We say things often in a fit of temper that would not be revealed if we are composed
 
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Oh, I remember very well how we lived before mobile phones.

For one thing, we knew the numbers of our friends and frequent contacts off by heart. This is because (unlike mobile prefixes) the area codes were consistent, so we didn't have to remember a long string of numbers, often just 3 or 4 digits. If you didn't know someone's number, there was a good chance you could call someone who did have it.

If I'm right and this was a personal diary/notebook, I wouldn't expect her to record the numbers of customers and potential buyers in it. They would be in her office notebook. I certainly didn't keep work contact numbers in my personal diary, other than home numbers of colleagues with whom I was friendly.

Up to a point. We've had 25 to 30 years to get used to round-the-clock reachability but ~40 years ago life wasn't like that. We're used nowadays to having all our contacts handy on one device, but think how stuffed you'd be if you lost your phone. You can get a new handset and memory card, but it won't have any of your contacts on it.

That's how irksome it would have been to lose your diary; you didn't have the numbers backed up anywhere. Also, bear in mind nobody had a mobile phone in 1986. They didn't become ubiquitous for another ten years. So if you needed to call someone, you had to get them at home or work. You couldn't call them on a phone they carried around and catch them on the move. People were uncontactable when not at home or work. Even answerphones were a novelty. If SJL needed to speak to anyone that afternoon - such as the 6pm viewing to confirm or change it - she needed the diary back before they left their desk for the day. This would be reason enough to go and get it.
 
If you look to JC ,SW and the likes of Bellfield come to that these are the type of guys who would revel in the knowledge of knowing they've gotten away with it.IMO if there's no evidence to support those intimately close to SJL being involved then widen the paremeters, maybe they did this or focused on JC either way the ending with JC , we all know where that stands.
 
I get you . I think the police said he had to provide a witness who saw her go to the pub that day before they would act. It looks like his work will go to waste. I reread the Andrew Stephens book, and he points out the discrepancies in the relief landlords account from 1986 to 1987 assuring us its purely a mistake. Maybe he picked up on something ?
I think you’ll find that AS definitely picked up on this and I think he said it left an uneasy feeling.
Which is about as close as you’ll get to a finger point from AS.
DV is far more pointed in his finger pointing, but that’s his style and generally the passage of time.
Some say the police did take action and found nothing, you’re going to need to ask the current staff at the PoW if this is true.
 
I think you’ll find that AS definitely picked up on this and I think he said it left an uneasy feeling.
Which is about as close as you’ll get to a finger point from AS.
DV is far more pointed in his finger pointing, but that’s his style and generally the passage of time.
Some sa
I think you’ll find that AS definitely picked up on this and I think he said it left an uneasy feeling.
Which is about as close as you’ll get to a finger point from AS.
DV is far more pointed in his finger pointing, but that’s his style and generally the passage of time.
Some say the police did take action and found nothing, you’re going to need to ask the current staff at the PoW if this is true.
Thanks for the info, its a long time since i read teh AS book but im pleased he picked up on it. Especially as according to my memory, during those years the focus was on Mister Kipper and Shorrolds ROad. First i knew of the POW was in Videcettes book.I think V was right when he said about capturing the publics imagination and the sinister Mister Kipper. I read somewhere a claim that the police have been to the POW. Whether its true and what action they took ive no idea. I know some people have volunteered to V to do sonar resonance imaging in the dining area . V has been pretty silent on this pretty much since 2021 so not sure.
 
HI Terry, so just out of interest do you completely reject David Videcettes research? as this revolves around POW,IM just interesetd in different perspective ,THe relief landlord is dodgy as hell but putting her under the pub floor was risky too, Sorry if covering old ground
I'm not Terry, but I think the DV/POW stuff is very unlikely.
I also haven't seen anything to suggest the landlord is dodgy.
 

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