UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[su5ie]

The simplest explanation is that he assumed there weren't any. The police on Monday assumed he'd been inside 37SR that day and did not themselves go there until the next day. They then got in, somehow. They were unable to get into SJL's own flat without breaking the door down, but they were able to get into 37SR without doing so. The press photos the next day showed an undamaged door.

So at some point on the Tuesday, it occurred to the police that it might be quite a good idea if someone had a look around 37SR, in case SJL was there. They entered using a key, the only one Sturgis had. Presumably they turned up at Sturgis the next day, asked if there was a key to 37SR and were given it.

If it had been troublesome to get in you'd expect someone - AS, the detectives interviewed - to remember. They remember having to break into SJL's flat but getting into 37SR presented no memorable problems at all.

its an excellent point about the door not being damaged in the newspaper and one I would not have twigged .. very observant of you . I think a lot of assumptions are and were made about this case... did a police man break in or suzys dad

 

[su5ie]

Ah, I didn't know it was that late. Fair enough.

He could have been on holiday too

 

[su5ie]

Does anyone know what area of law Mr lamplugh practiced in just curious

 

[Officer Dibble]

If you are referring to the Crimewatch October 1986 show, DSI Carter holds up a Sturgis yellow fob - there were no keys attached to them.

If the keys were left in the office, then why didn't MG take them with him when he went to look for Suzy that afternoon at 37SR?

MG goes to Shorrolds Road is at 23.46.

DSI Carter holds the fob up at around 26.26:

When they say in the video of crimewatch "This picture was taken of Suzi just 2 nights before she disappeared." Do we know who the man is beside her? Was this a subtle way of trying to make someone come forward? JMO MOO

 

[WestLondoner]

Notice how blonde she isn't in that photo? Yet HR saw a blonde.

 

[Terryb808]

Notice how blonde she isn't in that photo? Yet HR saw a blonde.

Exactly, either he go the time wrong, or he saw PSS & TS maybe?

 

[ruby925]

If Suzy didn't take the keys or the house details with her, then what's the explanation as to what happened to them. They have never been seen again?

DV seems to have spread this myth about Suzy not taking the keys, but as some posters on this thread have pointed out, whether the appointment was real or not, either way she would have taken the keys.

Am I right in saying confirmation about the keys is critical? If the police established that Suzy did not take the house keys for a real or fake viewing, then the appointment with Mr Kipper looks even more spurious and this info should have been made public after Suzy disappeared.

 

[Cherwell]

Exactly, either he go the time wrong, or he saw PSS & TS maybe?

Does anyone know if SF had blonde hair? We know that she went to Shorrolds Road with MG, and the Kipper drawing looks a lot like him.

 

[su5ie]

Does anyone know if SF had blonde hair? We know that she went to Shorrolds Road with MG, and the Kipper drawing looks a lot like him.

Very like MG And if anyone can dig out old photos from newspapers of the sturgis staff I would greatly appreciate it .. we do know pam seagar/ spurs was blond and her then husband was tanned

I found this old article from 1988 and it has extracts from AS book , not surprising it also says DL loved the fame and quite quickly had the secretary of state on speed dial .it contains a good bit of detail about the Monday and the comings and goings of Sturgis staff
Be great if anybody can locate other old newspapers

This Day in History: 1986 Parents appeal for missing agent

The parents of a missing London estate agent have made an emotional appeal for her safe return. Suzy Lamplugh, 25, was last seen with a man aged between 25 and 30, about 5’8’’ tall, with swept back hair and a dark suit outside a property in Fulham at 1300 BST two days ago. A man […]

macaudailytimes.com.mo

The Observer from London, Greater London, England

Get this The Observer page for free from Sunday, September 25, 1988 MJEYIEW SUNDAY 25 SEPTEMBER 1988 33 Two years ago it was a routine Monday morning in Sturgis's Estat.... Edition of The Observer

theguardian.newspapers.com

 

[su5ie]

Notice how blonde she isn't in that photo? Yet HR saw a blonde.

I did notice this I understand black and white photos can hide someone's hair colour but in general the lighter the hair the whiter the shades of the photo would be if we look at photos of the movie stars of the 40s and 50s the blonde bombshell era and black and white photos of Madonna when she only had blonde highlights against dark brown hair you can still see the difference in tones

 

[WestLondoner]

Am I right in saying confirmation about the keys is critical?

If she did not take the keys she definitely did not go. If she did take the keys she may or may not have gone - I'd say.

Very like MG And if anyone can dig out old photos from newspapers of the sturgis staff I would greatly appreciate it .. we do know pam seagar/ spurs was blond and her then husband was tanned

The actual staff are in the CW reconstruction. All the females have blonde streaks.

One Mr Kipper sighting said he had a tan, another said he was pasty.

 

[tes1984]

Notice how blonde she isn't in that photo? Yet HR saw a blonde.

Was she 5 foot 6 tall, or was it 5'8", or was she average height at 5'4"? A lot of variation in the press.

Does anyone have a reported height for John Cannan? I have 5'8" in my mind but can't recall where I read it.

Also do we have any reported heights for DH, AL, Steve Wright, TS, PS, and the Sturgis staff?

 

[tes1984]

IMO one major problem with this case is the timeline, and I'm not a big fan of trying to confirm witness statements in 40 year old cases.

All we know is that Suzy wrote down an 'appointment' for Shorrolds Road, and left work around 12.40pm, taking the keys for the Shorrolds property.

Is anything else actually confirmed?

 

[su5ie]

Was she 5 foot 6 tall, or was it 5'8", or was she average height at 5'4"? A lot of variation in the press.

Does anyone have a reported height for John Cannan? I have 5'8" in my mind but can't recall where I read it.

Also do we have any reported heights for DH, AL, Steve Wright, TS, PS, and the Sturgis staff?

This is AL at the time of suzys disappearance, he looks tall

 

[WiseOwl]

IMO one major problem with this case is the timeline, and I'm not a big fan of trying to confirm witness statements in 40 year old cases.

All we know is that Suzy wrote down an 'appointment' for Shorrolds Road, and left work around 12.40pm, taking the keys for the Shorrolds property.

Is anything else actually confirmed?

Only the fact that her car was found in Stevenage Road at 10pm that night.

AS's book contains a lot of information from the police investigation at the time, the book was published in 1988. However, it seems a lot of people either overlook or don't believe what was written in the book, so either you have faith in it or you don't.

Apart from his book there is not a lot to go on from the time Suzy disappeared, maybe the odd newspaper clipping or the Crimewatch reconstruction from October 1986.

 

[su5ie]

Only the fact that her car was found in Stevenage Road at 10pm that night.

AS's book contains a lot of information from the police investigation at the time, the book was published in 1988. However, it seems a lot of people either overlook or don't believe what was written in the book, so either you have faith in it or you don't.

Apart from his book there is not a lot to go on from the time Suzy disappeared, maybe the odd newspaper clipping or the Crimewatch reconstruction from October 1986.

Imo anything after the date of AS book is clouded by Cannan being the perpetrator whether he is or not . Its hard to find a newspaper article without his name mentioned. The police in their opinion have their man and it seems they see suzys case as a body recovery operation and are hoping that cannan reveals all on his death bed . Unless they have information not in the public domain I feel they are being lazy

Recollections over time in general get unclear . Our minds remember events and chunks of information but rarely word for word conversations and exact visual details and precise times . I tend to add more weight to information on timelines etc that was reported within the first 6 months of suzy's disappearance .

The only facts in my opinion in this case is suzy was in the office that morning. Suzy's car was on Stevenage road at 10pm .everything else is based on a diary entry 37SR it would obviously always be a place of interest to any investigation as it was in diary .But MG himself states this client was not known . To much weight is put on assumption .imo we won't find suzy by going over the same well trodden path time and time again . We need to establish factual evidence by finecombing everything that morning and the weekend prior to her disappearance .did the guy that suzy was sitting upon at the party come forward? Who could have been the business man pressuring her in the weeks leading to her death ? Why was she visibly distressed that morning if it wasn't over a diary ? Was she crying that morning? What were the signs of this alleged distress?

do we know if suzy appointment at 42 warldo was carried out by herself that morning. Or If it was as she writes a bike contract .who was the courier .did he collect it from suzy in person? Did he come forward ?

 

[WiseOwl]

Imo anything after the date of AS book is clouded by Cannan being the perpetrator whether he is or not . Its hard to find a newspaper article without his name mentioned. The police in their opinion have their man and it seems they see suzys case as a body recovery operation and are hoping that cannan reveals all on his death bed . Unless they have information not in the public domain I feel they are being lazy

Recollections over time in general get unclear . Our minds remember events and chunks of information but rarely word for word conversations and exact visual details and precise times . I tend to add more weight to information on timelines etc that was reported within the first 6 months of suzy's disappearance .

The only facts in my opinion in this case is suzy was in the office that morning. Suzy's car was on Stevenage road at 10pm .everything else is based on a diary entry 37SR it would obviously always be a place of interest to any investigation as it was in diary .But MG himself states this client was not known . To much weight is put on assumption .imo we won't find suzy by going over the same well trodden path time and time again . We need to establish factual evidence by finecombing everything that morning and the weekend prior to her disappearance .did the guy that suzy was sitting upon at the party come forward? Who could have been the business man pressuring her in the weeks leading to her death ? Why was she visibly distressed that morning if it wasn't over a diary ? Was she crying that morning? What were the signs of this alleged distress?

do we know if suzy appointment at 42 warldo was carried out by herself that morning. Or If it was as she writes a bike contract .who was the courier .did he collect it from suzy in person? Did he come forward ?

As you have pointed out, JC has become the sole focus for the police, especially since the case was re-opened in May 2000:

Police reopen Lamplugh case

Police investigating the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh, the estate agent abducted and assumed murdered 14 years ago, yesterday reopened the case.

www.theguardian.com

The Sturgis office kept details of clients but there wasn't any for a Mr Kipper, which gives credence to the idea that Suzy made the name & appointment up.

The Saturday night was a 21st birthday party for a friend of Suzy's, apparently there were over 70 people attending, mostly members of the Putney Set. As it was so close to Suzy's disappearance, you would assume that the police might have traced and spoken to all the people who attended the party, but i haven't seen this confirmed anywhere.

42 Wardo - bike contract was written at the top of the page in Suzy's diary that day, i don't recall this being looked into but again, i assume it must of been. DV links the Wardo, Shorrolds Road & Kipper together when he decides that Suzy has made the appointment up, as he believes she is thinking of someone she knows, JH, who lived at both Wardo and Shorrolds and whose nickname when he was younger was Kipper. Maybe DV was correct with this assumption -who knows?

 

[WiseOwl]

Just for the record, these are the places the police have searched for Suzy's remains since the case was re-opened in 2000:

2000 - Norton Barracks
2001 - Quantock Hills
2001 - Norton Barracks
2003 - Shipton Road, Sutton Coldfield
2004 - Shipton Road, Sutton Coldfield
2010 - Drakes Broughton
2018 - Shipton Road, Sutton Coldfield

More details in this report from the BBC in 2018:

Suzy Lamplugh: What do we know about the missing estate agent?

A new search is being carried out in connection with the estate agent's 1986 disappearance.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[WestLondoner]

Cannan's height is never mentioned AFAIK, but his other offences are described in CBD's book, which also recapitulates the descriptions of him given by witnesses and victims of those. These mostly describe him variously as between 5'6" and 5'8", with IIRC one outlier at 5'10". DV describes AL as over 6 feet tall.

Call me cynical, but it would be a simple matter for the police to show whether Cannan was tall enough to have driven SJL's Fiesta with the seat pushed right back. It would be equally simple to show whether or not he was the same height and build as the HFSR. He could have been put on an identity parade at any time to establish how closely he resembled the man HR reckons he saw outside 37SR (perhaps alongside a dozen of the other rapists released from nearby prisons in 1H1986 - the perfect line-up).

None of this was done or is ever done now. The cynic in me wonders if this is because to do any of that would have been to blow away large parts of the insinuation case against Cannan. If he couldn't have driven the car, wasn't the HFSR and HR hadn't picked him out, er, what's actually left that incriminates him?

For the avoidance of doubt, he's a ghastly murderous little creep and it's excellent that he's behind bars forever. What is frustrating is that it feels like the "case" against him does too many convenient things. It makes it look like the case would have been solved if it hadn't been for those meddling kids at the CPS, it shuts up DL and it reassures Joe Public that they got him for something and hence there isn't a murderous rapist out there on the loose.

 

[WestLondoner]

On the matter of the car, I'm increasingly of the view that WJ may be right and that the scenario we discussed a few pages up is what happened. That is, SJL went to 123SR and left immediately, and A N Other returned later to remove evidence from her car. He opened the driver door using her keys, pushed the seat back to retrieve something, then left, having not actually driven it.

This still leaves the problem of the BW sighting, which no theory accepts as true even though of all sightings it's likeliest to be.

Incidentally, it is sometimes said that Kipper must have been a genuine appointment because SJL was never known to fake an appointment. The trouble with this is that Kipper appointment itself demonstrably was fake, because the agency knew of no Mr. Kipper i.e. she made him up.