UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[lee sumner]

claudia lawrence had 40 lovers it said it the press. that is over the course of her adult life, not all at once.

 

[lee sumner]

It's possible, but it might be nothing to do with Sturgis, and there may be no Mr Kipper.

If we're speculating, then for all we know Suzy just wanted an excuse to leave the office. It was over 80 degrees and her bosses were out boozing. She had just dumped her boyfriend. She had misplaced her belongings. Her ex was back in town. She was arguing over a sale. She had rejected a business proposal from a friend.

A lot of reasons why she may have made an excuse to leave the office that day.

Maybe she just planned to clear her head, and spend half an hour down by the river that lunchtime. Got snatched as she tried to park up on Stevenage Road, five minutes after she left her office?

SL went off with a mystery man, even if she invented the name herself, he is still going to be mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

It's possible, but it might be nothing to do with Sturgis, and there may be no Mr Kipper.

If we're speculating, then for all we know Suzy just wanted an excuse to leave the office. It was over 80 degrees and her bosses were out boozing. She had just dumped her boyfriend. She had misplaced her belongings. Her ex was back in town. She was arguing over a sale. She had rejected a business proposal from a friend.

A lot of reasons why she may have made an excuse to leave the office that day.

Maybe she just planned to clear her head, and spend half an hour down by the river that lunchtime. Got snatched as she tried to park up on Stevenage Road, five minutes after she left her office?

i would not listen to DV. he has tunnel vision. SL did not argue with anyone in work over a sale. she took a cig break with NH and SF, which she would hardly do if she fell out with them.

 

[su5ie]

i would not listen to DV. he has tunnel vision. SL did not argue with anyone in work over a sale. she took a cig break with NH and SF, which she would hardly do if she fell out with them.

Could it not be a case of an argument happening while out for the cig break , a conversation that turned into a heated debate of sorts . I surmise from your post you have other sources that don't rely on DV’S version of events ( some sources dont have links hence it cant be shared on WS i respect that) I agree that suzy would not have had a cig break with someone she had just argued with in the manner in which DV reported

 

[Cherwell]

AS makes no mention at all of an argument, so while there may have been a squabble over a property, I doubt it was "heated". I bet this was a common occurrence.

 

[su5ie]

AS makes no mention at all of an argument, so while there may have been a squabble over a property, I doubt it was "heated". I bet this was a common occurrence.

Entirely possible, in a competitive environment and with commission at stake .arguments between colleagues were presumably part of the job

 

[lee sumner]

Could it not be a case of an argument happening while out for the cig break , a conversation that turned into a heated debate of sorts . I surmise from your post you have other sources that don't rely on DV’S version of events ( some sources dont have links hence it cant be shared on WS i respect that) I agree that suzy would not have had a cig break with someone she had just argued with in the manner in which DV reported

in AS book. he talks about them going for a cig break. no mention of words being said over a sale. AS had access to the case file, but DV investigation is hearsay and no hard facts.

 

[tes1984]

SL went off with a mystery man, even if she invented the name herself, he is still going to be mr kipper.

Not if she was abducted at random.

A lot of women were snatched off the street in London in the 80s and even 90s.

 

[Terryb808]

Not if she was abducted at random.

A lot of women were snatched off the street in London in the 80s and even 90s.

It’s just this scenario that leaves no trace, in many cases the perpetrator it’s caught unless DNA evidence is left behind.
In Suzy’s case, no solid witnesses and no body to have any chance of extracting DNA.

 

[Konstantin]

It’s almost impossible to get all the pieces of the jigsaw to fit.
A female poster highlighted that some women push the drivers seat back each time the exit the car.

There are other explanations for it -- SJL could have dropped something -- money, an earring, whatever you like -- on the floor of the car and it rolled under the seat, so she pushed it back to grab it before she got out. Then didn't have time to faff about re-pushing the seat back before she had to dash off to meet whoever in a rush, so didn't lock the driver's door, after all she was only expecting to be out a few moments, it was a quiet street. Passenger door locked because no one had been in the car so no one needed to open it.

There is more than one plausible scenario than "the abductor was a tall male and he drove the car alone to Stevenage Road, pushing the seat back to do so."

Were the mirrors of the car in a different position from how SJL usually had them? I assume she might have had to adjust them when she first got in because her colleague had just driven the car.

 

[su5ie]

There are other explanations for it -- SJL could have dropped something -- money, an earring, whatever you like -- on the floor of the car and it rolled under the seat, so she pushed it back to grab it before she got out. Then didn't have time to faff about re-pushing the seat back before she had to dash off to meet whoever in a rush, so didn't lock the driver's door, after all she was only expecting to be out a few moments, it was a quiet street. Passenger door locked because no one had been in the car so no one needed to open it.

There is more than one plausible scenario than "the abductor was a tall male and he drove the car alone to Stevenage Road, pushing the seat back to do so."

Were the mirrors of the car in a different position from how SJL usually had them? I assume she might have had to adjust them when she first got in because her colleague had just driven the car.

Great points , it actually was a fly in the ointment for me about the car door unlocked and the seat adjustment without side mirrors being also adjusted . If suzy drove straight to Stevenage herself and got out into another car to go to Shorrolds would she not automatically subconsciously lock the door . I do feel she met someone there and was only meant to sit in their car for a few minutes discuss something and go back to work . The keys or details of the house were never in the car so we're not found .Who she met is the big question and why ? The parking beside the sturgis sign was a rendezvous point ,a land marker . In the days before mobiles ,a landmark was generally pre agreed and you waited there for the person you were meeting ..I'm old enough to know I did it loads of times lol

 

[WiseOwl]

Although we know that WJ, the taxi driver and the owner of the garage all say they saw Suzy's car parked overlapping the driveway that day, i don't recall any of them saying that they saw Suzy's straw hat in the back of the car.

WJ passed the car 4 times that day, on her way to the bank/shopping, on her way home, then later on she saw it again when she went to the cinema and then again saw the car when she arrived home. Did she ever mention seeing the straw hat in the back of the car?

 

[Cherwell]

I've wondered about that, since BW did mention seeing it, and it was there when the car was found. That would seem to authenticate her sighting as I doubt it showed up in any photos in the public domain.

 

[Officer Dibble]

There are other explanations for it -- SJL could have dropped something -- money, an earring, whatever you like -- on the floor of the car and it rolled under the seat, so she pushed it back to grab it before she got out. Then didn't have time to faff about re-pushing the seat back before she had to dash off to meet whoever in a rush, so didn't lock the driver's door, after all she was only expecting to be out a few moments, it was a quiet street. Passenger door locked because no one had been in the car so no one needed to open it.

There is more than one plausible scenario than "the abductor was a tall male and he drove the car alone to Stevenage Road, pushing the seat back to do so."

Were the mirrors of the car in a different position from how SJL usually had them? I assume she might have had to adjust them when she first got in because her colleague had just driven the car.

I have always thought the same - she dropped something (keys) they went too far under car seat so she pushed it back to retrieve the item. MOO

 

[su5ie]

If anyone hasn't read AS book and was interested in the story of suzys childhood and the intitial investigation. I found a link that allows you to read the whole book in continuous 1 hour segments or you can choose an hour here or there etc . I read it all yesterday . But I can dip in and out by using the toolbar and typing a word say like 37 Shorrolds Road and it will show me all the pages containing that it's on the Internet archive library. So possibly other books would be on it too

The Suzy Lamplugh story : Stephen, Andrew : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

198p.,[8]p. of plates : 22cm

archive.org

 

[WestLondoner]

The issue with AS' reliance on the police files is that the police didn't solve the case. One's therefore fairly unlikely to learn much from them, because the name of the perp is probably not in there.

Interest in this case really started to get rekindled IMO around 2000, when it was reinvestigated. Thanks to DV we now know it was rekindled because of CBD, who had no new information but rehashed something DL believed. Frustratingly, it is quite hard to know how much of the anecdotal case against Cannan that has been pushed by the police and media since arose from a trawl of all the 1986 records, and how much of it from supposed sightings "remembered" after an interval of 14 years. JD said they had all the old records computerised for that cold case investigation. It is not clear whether things like the supposed sighting of a woman screaming or laughing in a BMW were remembered only in 2000 or were seen in 1986 and overlooked until 2000. Likewise the bloke staring in the shop window, the other calls to local agents by Mr Kipper. If these were logged but ignored in 1986, it absolutely damns the original inquiry. If they were new in 2000 and relied upon by the new investigation it damns the latter because they would be farcical data points off which to argue a case.

What is interesting is all the people who didn't come forward. If there was a Mr Kipper, he didn't come forward. The person pressuring her on a business deal never came forward. The bloke who saw a right ruck near 123SR never came forward. The wealthy boyfriend in Park Lane never came forward. The woman who phoned the pub the day she disappeared never came forward (PSS? JT's wife for some reason?) The bloke who was going to sell her a Mercedes never came forward. The person who sent flowers to her flat didn't come forward. It's not surprising some of LE thought she might have been "tomming it"....

 

[su5ie]

The issue with AS' reliance on the police files is that the police didn't solve the case. One's therefore fairly unlikely to learn much from them, because the name of the perp is probably not in there.

Interest in this case really started to get rekindled IMO around 2000, when it was reinvestigated. Thanks to DV we now know it was rekindled because of CBD, who had no new information but rehashed something DL believed. Frustratingly, it is quite hard to know how much of the anecdotal case against Cannan that has been pushed by the police and media since arose from a trawl of all the 1986 records, and how much of it from supposed sightings "remembered" after an interval of 14 years. JD said they had all the old records computerised for that cold case investigation. It is not clear whether things like the supposed sighting of a woman screaming or laughing in a BMW were remembered only in 2000 or were seen in 1986 and overlooked until 2000. Likewise the bloke staring in the shop window, the other calls to local agents by Mr Kipper. If these were logged but ignored in 1986, it absolutely damns the original inquiry. If they were new in 2000 and relied upon by the new investigation it damns the latter because they would be farcical data points off which to argue a case.

What is interesting is all the people who didn't come forward. If there was a Mr Kipper, he didn't come forward. The person pressuring her on a business deal never came forward. The bloke who saw a right ruck near 123SR never came forward. The wealthy boyfriend in Park Lane never came forward. The woman who phoned the pub the day she disappeared never came forward (PSS? JT's wife for some reason?) The bloke who was going to sell her a Mercedes never came forward. The person who sent flowers to her flat didn't come forward. It's not surprising some of LE thought she might have been "tomming it"....

I felt with the AS book it gave an insight into how suzy grew up ,her childhood ,some of her friends and some dating history. A snap shot into her work and social life .

It also I suppose gives an insight into how much DL influenced the image of suzy and the investigation and tiny nuggets of information like Sturgis didnt have a wall clock in the office and her disappearance was not reported to police until 6 50 pm that evening by MG .it also says in the book that the police asked MG if he checked 37SR and Allegedly he stated inside and out .

i felt it was an honest account of the happenings of the day without going into theorys and hypothesis. I don't feel its an evidence reference and like you was surprised at the amount of people that didn't come forward.

I shared the link as AS book is hard to get and I suppose its a view into that period of time .I certainly would not use it as a guideline for any conclusion or investigation work just as much as I wouldn't use DVs version either . A lot of stuff is buried deep in Internet archives and AS book allows me to look at archives of newspapers that printed stories at the time as he gives the name of them and programmes that carried interviews with DL

As regards Tomming it as referenced in the book ,suzys bank account was checked for any unaccounted for money and also she didn't have large stashes of cash in her flat .of course there is other methods of payment such as someone paying your rent ,bills or lifestyle. Prehaps men precieved the sexual encounters as this but in my view there is no evidence to suggest suzy was engaging in paid prostitution. I think she naively thought she could keep all these liaisons secret and seperate maybe it caught up with her .allegedly didnt she speak to AL from a supposed other gentleman's flat

 

[Cherwell]

What is interesting is all the people who didn't come forward. If there was a Mr Kipper, he didn't come forward. The person pressuring her on a business deal never came forward. The bloke who saw a right ruck near 123SR never came forward. The wealthy boyfriend in Park Lane never came forward. The woman who phoned the pub the day she disappeared never came forward (PSS? JT's wife for some reason?) The bloke who was going to sell her a Mercedes never came forward. The person who sent flowers to her flat didn't come forward. It's not surprising some of LE thought she might have been "tomming it"....

People, especially the men, may have been reluctant to get involved in case they were regarded as suspects.

 

[su5ie]

BMW in 1986 had an optional extra of a carphone . These were rare and affordable only to the rich . Would anyone know if BMW kept records of these or if they were fitted by a separate company ? Does anyone know if calls made from these had to be made through an operator ? This may lead to an answer to my question to if any records of phone calls to Sturgis on the 28th were made from a car phones

I had read they worked by pinging off a radio cell tower similar to a two way radio and needed a call to be connected through an operator . If anyone has further indepth knowledge I would appreciate it .I'm looking into a different suspect ( not cannan ) concerning the BMW spotted by witnesses and also wondering if MG or any other managerial staff in Sturgis had one fitted into their cars

 

[su5ie]

Does any know if Sturgis phone records were gone through to eliminate genuine clients from a possible mr kipper and if they weren't why ?