UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[su5ie]

This is one of the weirder things. The police claim is that this was Cannan's nickname in jail. The source of this appears to be GP who herself attributed it to....JC. It is far from clear that Cannan's prison nickname was Kipper before he was mentioned in connection with SJL by the press. Thereafter, it's plausible that the other cons called him this as a form of black humour. It's not obvious why else this would previously have been his nickname. If it were, it would be dumb even by Cannan standards to use it as a fake name. As I have said before, it's as though Machine Gun Kelly or Pretty Boy Floyd were to book appointments as Mr Machine Gun or Mr Pretty Boy.

DV's suggestion that she thought it up in a nanosecond because her mate John "Herring" Kipper lived in Shorrolds actually makes more sense.

why use such a bizarre name like mr kipper if she wanted to cover her behind.

If we view the name as an alias/nickname or word association . Let break it down .The Mr because its a man . Kipper means in slang ,sleeper or one who likes to sleep . If the perpetrator is someone known to suzy and she has spent time in his company before . Prehaps after sex or after a few drinks before any sexual activity he fell asleep and then suzy affectionately teased him afterwards as Mr kipper as an underhanded prehaps coy way of saying she wasnt pleased about this . I'm trying to put myself in a 25 year olds shoes ,what kind of things get said between young lovers and particularly with a new flame .generally some teasing goes on ,gentle slagging or banter I feel it was an affectionate or associated term with the person

 

[Cherwell]

I think that's a bit far-fetched. The association with "Kipper" Herring who also lived in Shorrolds Road is persuasive.

 

[su5ie]

Dbm

 

[su5ie]

I think that's a bit far-fetched. The association with "Kipper" Herring who also lived in Shorrolds Road is persuasive.

While it may be far fetched for the majority. It is also an alternative explanation that has not been said before and so far all other explanations have thrown up no lead or at least none have turned out to be viable explanations .So why not throw out a new one whether or not its way out there? lol . I believe the Mr kipper was known to suzy and not someone pretending to be a client giving an alias with the sinister intention of getting a female estate agent alone

 

[Cherwell]

Yes, I'm sure she went to meet someone she knew.

 

[ruby925]

Many possibilities for 'Kipper', kipper tie, stitched up like a kipper, someone who likes kippers for breakfast etc. Also, I think I read Suzy was dyslexic so maybe Kipper was misspelt? We had Kuyper from Belgium, but other variations could be Keeper/Kieper/Keiper/Keyper and more.
However, I think the link to Shorrolds with Herring is a good possibility. Coupled with the fact that no other details existed for Mr Kipper at Sturgis, agree that he was known to Suzy whatever his name.

 

[tes1984]

There was a prolific 1970s uncaught US serial killer, with at least twenty murder victims, who was known as 'Ted from the East Coast'.

He got this name because one victim who got away mentioned how he introduced himself as Ted.

He was of course Ted Bundy, and like a true narcissist he couldn't resist using his real name.

 

[tes1984]

Yes, I'm sure she went to meet someone she knew.

It seems like it, but none of us know for sure.

For all we know, the full police reports had a few criminals who confirmed JC was known as Kipper at the hostel (but who weren't willing to say it in court etc).

Or did the Met present this scenario to the CPS, based on just one crook?

 

[Cherwell]

It seems like it, but none of us know for sure.

For all we know, the full police reports had a few criminals who confirmed JC was known as Kipper at the hostel (but who weren't willing to say it in court etc).

Or did the Met present this scenario to the CPS, based on just one crook?

It was some time before the police put JC in the frame. Did they track down all the hostel residents?
I understood that the stories of him being known as Kipper in prison post-dated his being named as a suspect. He may well have been called that since, but it doesn't prove anything.

 

[tes1984]

Maybe the CPS rejected the Met because they didn't think sex offenders were great witnesses to be questioned in court.

The Met would have tried to get the statements from 'regualr crooks' from the hostel. Not from sex offenders from Cannan's time in the segregation units.

 

[tes1984]

Does anyone on here think JC killed Suzy?
Or even that he's a decent suspect?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Does anyone on here think JC killed Suzy?
Or even that he's a decent suspect?

I wouldn't rule him out completely but I think she was probably murdered by someone she knew more intimately and there was a motive behind it such as anger / betrayal / revenge etc.

Ideally, we'd need to know all the arguments and 'evidence' that LE put forward to the CPS. JC would be an easy target to clear up an historic crime and I think if the CPS thought there was a chance of enough evidence to convict, they would have pushed forwards to court. So, clearly there isn't.

JMO

 

[WiseOwl]

Does anyone on here think JC killed Suzy?
Or even that he's a decent suspect?

I think JC has to be considered a suspect. However, i don't believe he was responsible for Suzy's disappearance - i have always thought it was someone she knew who abducted her that day.

It would be good to know exactly who and how many people the police interviewed at the time, and if they checked their statements properly. We know that Suzy seemed to have hundreds of contacts, some that even her family, friends and work colleagues wasn't aware of. The Met of course criticised the original investigation when the case was re-opened in early 2000, but it was never specified exactly what areas of the investigation were at fault.

It would be interesting to know how many people that were interviewed at the time were not where they were supposed to be when Suzy went missing that lunchtime. For instance, did anyone have a longer lunch break than usual, or did they take the afternoon off? Were they at home and went out for the day, not returning until later that evening? Even if their alibi's seemed genuine, i think it would be good to take a look at anybody who was away from where they should have been for longer than usual that day.

We need another AS to come along and plough through the original police reports!

 

[WestLondoner]

The two obvious errors in 1986 were failing to establish if any SA offenders had been released recently, and failing to create a proper suspect list. If this was Cannan, they would have had a much better chance of gathering actual evidence at this time than 14 years later.

The police instead set themselves the fundamentally impossible task of identifying everyone SJL knew, and finding out if they were in Fulham that day. The 2000 reinvestigation was flawed in the same way because that simply added Cannan to the same suspect list, reinvestigated the same people as before, eliminated them all again and they were left with Cannan, so QED. Or not.

He's a plausible suspect but the case against him rests mainly on information given 14 years later by a snitch. We have no idea how unique he is as a suspect because there was never any attempt to track down and account for all other recently released perps. For all we know, there were 20 other offenders in the area whose movements also cannot be accounted for.

Tactically it was an error IMHO to go public with the 37SR story before checking it out properly. Doing so ensured that any other sightings of SJL in a place she was not expected to be seen would never be sent in. It also persuaded the police themselves to dismiss such sightings, such as BW's, and not to stop and think when it was pointed out to them that Mr Kipper looked a helluva lot like MG.

 

[Cherwell]

Of course there's no evidence whatsoever that she was the victim of a sex offender. Or of a sexual attack at all.

 

[su5ie]

Let's take a look at all the information in the public domain that possibly points cannan being the culprit so on the law of probability we can see if all arrows point in his direction

Staying in a prison halfway house nearby which may have had a curfew minimum 8pm to 6am or maximum 11pm to 8am . A lot of these hostels had activities up until 5pm with the aim of integrating offenders back into the community

Liked professional woman doesn't mean all his love interests were though

Possible match of suzy's Dna in red fiesta or red Sierra located during 2000 review as far as I'm aware

Known as kipper depending on version of story nickname either post or pre dates him being named a suspect

Possible evidence in 1987 to pinpoint him as a suspect but never acted on

Imo very vague resemblance to the first photofit given by HR . Cannan has thick eyebrows that can't be mistaken and this would stand out .both photofits have thinner ones sketched

Suzy was allegedly dating a Bristol businessman . How long ago and was Cannan in prison or the hostel

May or May not have been seen throwing a suitcase into the canal evidence given by lorry driver but its also stated he walked by Cannan AFAIK

Cannan was allegedly active in his pursuit of female agents as a Mr Kipper was canvassing other estate agents in the area

A woman swears she saw cannan looking in sturgis window

Cannan is taller than suzy by between 2 and 3 inches according to reports he may be responsible for moving the seat of the car back

His ex girlfriend claims he was obsessed with the case and pointed to Norton barracks as to where Cannan said Suzy’s body is but she could be wrong and said it could have been the other barracks

Cannan is suspected of having access to a dark coloured bmw . He is some man for one man if he managed to drive 3 cars and control / murder suzy all in the space of a couple of hours so white fiesta moved to Stevenage. And possibly drove around town to Shorrolds, Palace Road(bw sighting ) and wherever else BMW sighted at similar times and transport suzy in a red fiesta which is how her dna possibly got there ??

The SB car reg plate SLP

He was a rapist at the time and possibly had murdered in hindsight (SC )before suzy

May have been a patron of wine bar and POW

Cellmate/ fellow prisoner said he buried suzy under his mother's patio ,garden or car repair pit he had there

Scotland yard and the met publicly named him as a suspect therefore they might have evidence not known to us ?? Cps thought it circumstantial so hardly incriminating

Am I leaving anything out

 

[su5ie]

Hypothesis we have come up with indicating why we don't think it's cannan

How could he have been sure he would have got suzy for the 37SR viewing ?

Plenty of other rapists ,murders and prisoners in the area or staying at the same hostel as Cannan.

Only considered a suspect because of SB murder his MO seems to be reckless , method of concealment not great

It was stated by police they suspect suzy knew her attacker therefore must have known Cannan we suspect suzy would not be fooled by him masquerading as a successful and rich business man

No evidence to suggest she was a victim of a sexually motivated murder and no evidence to suggest she was abducted either getting into her car or from it .

Suzy we feel drove to Stevenage of her own accord because not a shred of evidence to suggest anyone else was in her car so why do that if she wasnt to meet someone prearranged and why meet Cannan during work hours when normally she wouldnt skip work so had to be more important than a daytime hook up for sex

Anything else to add ?

 

[Cherwell]

Possible match of suzy's Dna in red fiesta located during 2000 review as far as I'm aware

IMBW, but wasn't it a red Sierra that was associated with him, and the hair found in it had a partial DNA match to Sandra Court, not Suzy. The DNA was insignificant as it would have been consistent with a large percentage of the population.

If there was also a red Fiesta, I have missed that.

 

[su5ie]

IMBW, but wasn't it a red Sierra that was associated with him, and the hair found in it had a partial DNA match to Sandra Court, not Suzy. The DNA was insignificant as it would have been consistent with a large percentage of the population.

If there was also a red Fiesta, I have missed that.

Sorry cherwell all talk of fiestas and I got mixed up yes red Sierra. Apparently a partial match to suzys DNA was found in this ... I was just posting a compiled list of reasons he is suspected from articles and links already in the thread so wasnt re linking it was just so we could take a look .

 

[Terryb808]

Sorry cherwell all talk of fiestas and I got mixed up yes red Sierra. Apparently a partial match to suzys DNA was found in this ... I was just posting a compiled list of reasons he is suspected from articles and links already in the thread so wasnt re linking it was just so we could take a look .

As Cherwell said it’s quoted as partial for both Suzy & Sandra, but IIRC this isn’t accurate and anyway a partial match would also match many many others.