UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[lee sumner]

Why ever would he approach MG and assume he was looking for "a couple"?
The house was for sale, so it would have been more likely that someone looking through the window was interested in it. There's nothing to suggest any connection with two people who (according to witnesses) behaved like people viewing the property.

we will never know how the conversation went between HR and MG. we would know better if we could see the original case files.

 

[su5ie]

the only way we would know how events played out that between HR and MG would to see the original case files, then we would know what was said between HR and MG regarding the couple seen outside.

Tbh I feel if we speculate on scenarios between HR and MG we have a few choices I would base my ideas on interactions between people in everyday life . Either HR heard MG calling suzys name or overheard MG talking to a colleague in the garden of 37sr stating 'where on earth could suzy be ? " she couldn't still be busy with a client from 12.45 and HR then volunteers the information on the couple he seen . Or upon MG seeing HR in his garden or knocking at Harry's door and asks HR has he seen suzy or a man and woman .either way HR has already recieved enough information to create a storyline or tell the truth .

HRs witness account is backed up by other Witnesses in so far as seeing a blonde woman and a well dressed man at 37SR so there is truth to his statement and he saw activity at the house . People's perception of how other people look is also varied so this can account for difference in the photo fits . My problem with reliance on HRs witness account is two fold . One why embellish the account as this diminishes it automatically in court if it does ever go before the courts

.Secondly although HR clearly seen MG and a colleague ( I would be interested to know if this was a female co worker) that day to be able to tell them he seen a couple . MG was at the house twice Did he speak to HR first or second time .MG called to 37sr between 2.45pm and 3.30pm and then again about 4.30pm from what I can see . Did HR see MG and this colleague at the first visit ??

MG was at a business lunch Did he recieved the bottle of champagne as a gift at this and I had wondered if he had held the bottle of champagne prehaps as a 'weapon " in case he had to confront someone attacking suzy or holding her hostage obviously I laughed at the thought and suspect MG would have stated it was him with the bottle of champagne. But with all the alleged shenanigans in the intial investigation I still wonder .

Witness timeline accounts on Shorrolds Road varies from 12.50 to 4pm . Some say they seen suzy getting into her own car with a man ,some say standing beside or getting into a bmw with a man both can't be true . Another neighbour from Shorrolds Road from I think 139 a women claims to have seen a woman and man arguing beside a BMW and a woman being coerced or forced into a BMW (source Looking for Suzy a book about the john and Fred West connection and Ten most Wanted chapter 5 ) which witnesses have seen Suzy and MR KIPPER and which car is the right one and How can you be in two places at once as a Woman on Stevenage also claims to have seen Suzy and a man at a BMW arguing (same sources as above ) Even though the intitial investigation was deemed haphazard was subsequent ones too .

Of all the books out there most could be written by us posters as they are opinions and hypothesis based on the authors Own prefered narrative and line of investigation followed. I feel AS book although not a definitive account and we are only privy to an allowed amount of information . I think for a unclouded peek into the investigation its very good

Having read many books on different cases especially on missing women The amount of incompetence and information lost in heaps of paperwork by police forces the world over you would wonder how any case gets solved as 9 times out of 10 its an unfortunate member of the public that finds a body and forensics work from there but actual meticulous detective work in missing person's cases is rare it saddens me terribly when I read an article stating that the clue was there all along but the families have waited 20 years or more for answers about their loved one . I know work load is a burden on police but can they not hire civilians whom have a skill at attention to detail to look at these cold cases . Bit by bit everyday instead of pulling a dust covered folder out every 10 years prehaps a lot more families could have closure

 

[ctaylor]

Just came to find a thread on Suzy Lamplugh as I just read the Andrew Stephen book online. I have not read all of these extensive threads but think I may need to now! You all clearly know the case very well so I'm adding nothing new. As someone from the UK of course I knew this case and the author makes it clear that of 1000s who go missing every year, this one got the publicity, mainly due to Diana Lamplugh, who does not come across so well in the book. He mentions numerous times how much she enjoyed the limelight. I guess she just was doing anything she could but while its almost 100% likely Suzy was murdered, at times in the book and reading the passages about her mother, I did wonder if there is a 0.1% chance she did want to voluntarily disappear.

However it did sound like she had too much going for her to do that. I know her parents objected to the book but it was printed with the first draft and nothing was taken out, just a note at the start to say this book is not supported by them and they do not recognise the portrayal of Suzy. Reading that at the start I was expecting to find parts of the book that would be a shock but there was not much there. Single girl in her 20s has a few boyfriends and maybe a married man but nothing too wild. There was one hint that as she had managed her money well and had a lot in savings that she may have been a prostitute and apparently one of her friends suspected she may have been, but there was no evidence of it at all. Think the biggest shock I had was the use of the F word (homosexual slur) and N word in her diaries. Reading from 2024 people her age would almost never use those terms now but other than that there was not much for the parents to really not agree with as everything seemed to be backed up with diaries and by friends on the QE2.

Will need to have a proper read at these threads.

 

[lee sumner]

Tbh I feel if we speculate on scenarios between HR and MG we have a few choices I would base my ideas on interactions between people in everyday life . Either HR heard MG calling suzys name or overheard MG talking to a colleague in the garden of 37sr stating 'where on earth could suzy be ? " she couldn't still be busy with a client from 12.45 and HR then volunteers the information on the couple he seen . Or upon MG seeing HR in his garden or knocking at Harry's door and asks HR has he seen suzy or a man and woman .either way HR has already recieved enough information to create a storyline or tell the truth .

HRs witness account is backed up by other Witnesses in so far as seeing a blonde woman and a well dressed man at 37SR so there is truth to his statement and he saw activity at the house . People's perception of how other people look is also varied so this can account for difference in the photo fits . My problem with reliance on HRs witness account is two fold . One why embellish the account as this diminishes it automatically in court if it does ever go before the courts

.Secondly although HR clearly seen MG and a colleague ( I would be interested to know if this was a female co worker) that day to be able to tell them he seen a couple . MG was at the house twice Did he speak to HR first or second time .MG called to 37sr between 2.45pm and 3.30pm and then again about 4.30pm from what I can see . Did HR see MG and this colleague at the first visit ??

MG was at a business lunch Did he recieved the bottle of champagne as a gift at this and I had wondered if he had held the bottle of champagne prehaps as a 'weapon " in case he had to confront someone attacking suzy or holding her hostage obviously I laughed at the thought and suspect MG would have stated it was him with the bottle of champagne. But with all the alleged shenanigans in the intial investigation I still wonder .

Witness timeline accounts on Shorrolds Road varies from 12.50 to 4pm . Some say they seen suzy getting into her own car with a man ,some say standing beside or getting into a bmw with a man both can't be true . Another neighbour from Shorrolds Road from I think 139 a women claims to have seen a woman and man arguing beside a BMW and a woman being coerced or forced into a BMW (source Looking for Suzy a book about the john and Fred West connection and Ten most Wanted chapter 5 ) which witnesses have seen Suzy and MR KIPPER and which car is the right one and How can you be in two places at once as a Woman on Stevenage also claims to have seen Suzy and a man at a BMW arguing (same sources as above ) Even though the intitial investigation was deemed haphazard was subsequent ones too .

Of all the books out there most could be written by us posters as they are opinions and hypothesis based on the authors Own prefered narrative and line of investigation followed. I feel AS book although not a definitive account and we are only privy to an allowed amount of information . I think for a unclouded peek into the investigation its very good

Having read many books on different cases especially on missing women The amount of incompetence and information lost in heaps of paperwork by police forces the world over you would wonder how any case gets solved as 9 times out of 10 its an unfortunate member of the public that finds a body and forensics work from there but actual meticulous detective work in missing person's cases is rare it saddens me terribly when I read an article stating that the clue was there all along but the families have waited 20 years or more for answers about their loved one . I know work load is a burden on police but can they not hire civilians whom have a skill at attention to detail to look at these cold cases . Bit by bit everyday instead of pulling a dust covered folder out every 10 years prehaps a lot more families could have closure

i know what you mean. its possible MG put the question to him, which allowed HR to start telling lies. if that is the case, then its sad how people inject themselves into a case, when in reality he didnt see *advertiser censored*. i hope its not the case. it would be interesting asking MG to explain the interaction between him and HR, and finding out what was said. the original case files would give us a clearer picture, but we will never get access to those.

 

[lee sumner]

Tbh I feel if we speculate on scenarios between HR and MG we have a few choices I would base my ideas on interactions between people in everyday life . Either HR heard MG calling suzys name or overheard MG talking to a colleague in the garden of 37sr stating 'where on earth could suzy be ? " she couldn't still be busy with a client from 12.45 and HR then volunteers the information on the couple he seen . Or upon MG seeing HR in his garden or knocking at Harry's door and asks HR has he seen suzy or a man and woman .either way HR has already recieved enough information to create a storyline or tell the truth .

HRs witness account is backed up by other Witnesses in so far as seeing a blonde woman and a well dressed man at 37SR so there is truth to his statement and he saw activity at the house . People's perception of how other people look is also varied so this can account for difference in the photo fits . My problem with reliance on HRs witness account is two fold . One why embellish the account as this diminishes it automatically in court if it does ever go before the courts

.Secondly although HR clearly seen MG and a colleague ( I would be interested to know if this was a female co worker) that day to be able to tell them he seen a couple . MG was at the house twice Did he speak to HR first or second time .MG called to 37sr between 2.45pm and 3.30pm and then again about 4.30pm from what I can see . Did HR see MG and this colleague at the first visit ??

MG was at a business lunch Did he recieved the bottle of champagne as a gift at this and I had wondered if he had held the bottle of champagne prehaps as a 'weapon " in case he had to confront someone attacking suzy or holding her hostage obviously I laughed at the thought and suspect MG would have stated it was him with the bottle of champagne. But with all the alleged shenanigans in the intial investigation I still wonder .

Witness timeline accounts on Shorrolds Road varies from 12.50 to 4pm . Some say they seen suzy getting into her own car with a man ,some say standing beside or getting into a bmw with a man both can't be true . Another neighbour from Shorrolds Road from I think 139 a women claims to have seen a woman and man arguing beside a BMW and a woman being coerced or forced into a BMW (source Looking for Suzy a book about the john and Fred West connection and Ten most Wanted chapter 5 ) which witnesses have seen Suzy and MR KIPPER and which car is the right one and How can you be in two places at once as a Woman on Stevenage also claims to have seen Suzy and a man at a BMW arguing (same sources as above ) Even though the intitial investigation was deemed haphazard was subsequent ones too .

Of all the books out there most could be written by us posters as they are opinions and hypothesis based on the authors Own prefered narrative and line of investigation followed. I feel AS book although not a definitive account and we are only privy to an allowed amount of information . I think for a unclouded peek into the investigation its very good

Having read many books on different cases especially on missing women The amount of incompetence and information lost in heaps of paperwork by police forces the world over you would wonder how any case gets solved as 9 times out of 10 its an unfortunate member of the public that finds a body and forensics work from there but actual meticulous detective work in missing person's cases is rare it saddens me terribly when I read an article stating that the clue was there all along but the families have waited 20 years or more for answers about their loved one . I know work load is a burden on police but can they not hire civilians whom have a skill at attention to detail to look at these cold cases . Bit by bit everyday instead of pulling a dust covered folder out every 10 years prehaps a lot more families could have closure

Tbh I feel if we speculate on scenarios between HR and MG we have a few choices I would base my ideas on interactions between people in everyday life . Either HR heard MG calling suzys name or overheard MG talking to a colleague in the garden of 37sr stating 'where on earth could suzy be ? " she couldn't still be busy with a client from 12.45 and HR then volunteers the information on the couple he seen . Or upon MG seeing HR in his garden or knocking at Harry's door and asks HR has he seen suzy or a man and woman .either way HR has already recieved enough information to create a storyline or tell the truth .

HRs witness account is backed up by other Witnesses in so far as seeing a blonde woman and a well dressed man at 37SR so there is truth to his statement and he saw activity at the house . People's perception of how other people look is also varied so this can account for difference in the photo fits . My problem with reliance on HRs witness account is two fold . One why embellish the account as this diminishes it automatically in court if it does ever go before the courts

.Secondly although HR clearly seen MG and a colleague ( I would be interested to know if this was a female co worker) that day to be able to tell them he seen a couple . MG was at the house twice Did he speak to HR first or second time .MG called to 37sr between 2.45pm and 3.30pm and then again about 4.30pm from what I can see . Did HR see MG and this colleague at the first visit ??

MG was at a business lunch Did he recieved the bottle of champagne as a gift at this and I had wondered if he had held the bottle of champagne prehaps as a 'weapon " in case he had to confront someone attacking suzy or holding her hostage obviously I laughed at the thought and suspect MG would have stated it was him with the bottle of champagne. But with all the alleged shenanigans in the intial investigation I still wonder .

Witness timeline accounts on Shorrolds Road varies from 12.50 to 4pm . Some say they seen suzy getting into her own car with a man ,some say standing beside or getting into a bmw with a man both can't be true . Another neighbour from Shorrolds Road from I think 139 a women claims to have seen a woman and man arguing beside a BMW and a woman being coerced or forced into a BMW (source Looking for Suzy a book about the john and Fred West connection and Ten most Wanted chapter 5 ) which witnesses have seen Suzy and MR KIPPER and which car is the right one and How can you be in two places at once as a Woman on Stevenage also claims to have seen Suzy and a man at a BMW arguing (same sources as above ) Even though the intitial investigation was deemed haphazard was subsequent ones too .

Of all the books out there most could be written by us posters as they are opinions and hypothesis based on the authors Own prefered narrative and line of investigation followed. I feel AS book although not a definitive account and we are only privy to an allowed amount of information . I think for a unclouded peek into the investigation its very good

Having read many books on different cases especially on missing women The amount of incompetence and information lost in heaps of paperwork by police forces the world over you would wonder how any case gets solved as 9 times out of 10 its an unfortunate member of the public that finds a body and forensics work from there but actual meticulous detective work in missing person's cases is rare it saddens me terribly when I read an article stating that the clue was there all along but the families have waited 20 years or more for answers about their loved one . I know work load is a burden on police but can they not hire civilians whom have a skill at attention to detail to look at these cold cases . Bit by bit everyday instead of pulling a dust covered folder out every 10 years prehaps a lot more families could have closure

i agree, regarding AS book. its a good read. lots of interesting info in there. i like the fact that JC is not mentioned anywhere in the book, because now any book written about the lamplugh case would feature JC no doubt.

 

[lee sumner]

Just came to find a thread on Suzy Lamplugh as I just read the Andrew Stephen book online. I have not read all of these extensive threads but think I may need to now! You all clearly know the case very well so I'm adding nothing new. As someone from the UK of course I knew this case and the author makes it clear that of 1000s who go missing every year, this one got the publicity, mainly due to Diana Lamplugh, who does not come across so well in the book. He mentions numerous times how much she enjoyed the limelight. I guess she just was doing anything she could but while its almost 100% likely Suzy was murdered, at times in the book and reading the passages about her mother, I did wonder if there is a 0.1% chance she did want to voluntarily disappear.

However it did sound like she had too much going for her to do that. I know her parents objected to the book but it was printed with the first draft and nothing was taken out, just a note at the start to say this book is not supported by them and they do not recognise the portrayal of Suzy. Reading that at the start I was expecting to find parts of the book that would be a shock but there was not much there. Single girl in her 20s has a few boyfriends and maybe a married man but nothing too wild. There was one hint that as she had managed her money well and had a lot in savings that she may have been a prostitute and apparently one of her friends suspected she may have been, but there was no evidence of it at all. Think the biggest shock I had was the use of the F word (homosexual slur) and N word in her diaries. Reading from 2024 people her age would almost never use those terms now but other than that there was not much for the parents to really not agree with as everything seemed to be backed up with diaries and by friends on the QE2.

Will need to have a proper read at these threads.

yes, i thought the same. i think SL might have been a bit racist.

 

[su5ie]

yes, i thought the same. i think SL might have been a bit racist.

I think suzy being from a particular class ,religious upbringing and possible lingo of the time contributed to her using those slurs unfortunately those two words were part of a lot of people vocabulary without realising they were being racist or homophobic. When you think of the acceptable behaviours and language of the 80s and 90s it would make you shudder to think family members and possibly ourselves used without even a thought to the derogatory affect it had

 

[su5ie]

Just came to find a thread on Suzy Lamplugh as I just read the Andrew Stephen book online. I have not read all of these extensive threads but think I may need to now! You all clearly know the case very well so I'm adding nothing new. As someone from the UK of course I knew this case and the author makes it clear that of 1000s who go missing every year, this one got the publicity, mainly due to Diana Lamplugh, who does not come across so well in the book. He mentions numerous times how much she enjoyed the limelight. I guess she just was doing anything she could but while its almost 100% likely Suzy was murdered, at times in the book and reading the passages about her mother, I did wonder if there is a 0.1% chance she did want to voluntarily disappear.

However it did sound like she had too much going for her to do that. I know her parents objected to the book but it was printed with the first draft and nothing was taken out, just a note at the start to say this book is not supported by them and they do not recognise the portrayal of Suzy. Reading that at the start I was expecting to find parts of the book that would be a shock but there was not much there. Single girl in her 20s has a few boyfriends and maybe a married man but nothing too wild. There was one hint that as she had managed her money well and had a lot in savings that she may have been a prostitute and apparently one of her friends suspected she may have been, but there was no evidence of it at all. Think the biggest shock I had was the use of the F word (homosexual slur) and N word in her diaries. Reading from 2024 people her age would almost never use those terms now but other than that there was not much for the parents to really not agree with as everything seemed to be backed up with diaries and by friends on the QE2.

Will need to have a proper read at these threads.

New eyes are always welcome and needed

 

[lee sumner]

If I'm not mistaken, the idea that she left at 12.40 is itself based on the supposition that the 12.45 diary entry was genuine. She had a 12.45 appointment, it's 5 minutes away ergo she left at 12.40. But what if it's not genuine? There was no clock in the office, nor any reason for anyone to notice what time she left, so why can't she have left Sturgis at 12.20 or 12.30 on her real errand?

This would allow her car to have been the one seen by WJ. This debunks both BW and DV, but it also debunks the entire 37SR narrative, because she was clearly never there.

So we now have absolutely no idea who she might have been with after she left the office. The supposed identikit pictures of Mr Kipper at 37SR depict, as DV has said, some random who has nothing to do with any of it.

The problem with the WJ sighting is that it doesn't look like she drove the car. It does look like someone abandoned the car in a hurry. This could have been because she pulled up behind someone she was meeting who was perhaps parked also, and got out of her car leaving it unlocked and not properly parked, expecting a brief conversation. She never returned to her own car even to lock it, nor did anyone else, yet somehow the seat got moved back.

my theory is WJ statement is total BS, and SL car was ditched on stevenage rd late afternoon/early evening. something else i wondered was PC dollery who found SL car at 10pm. did he check to see if the engine was still warm. my guess is he did not. if the engine would have been warm, that would mean the car had been ditched there minutes earlier.

 

[lee sumner]

I think suzy being from a particular class ,religious upbringing and possible lingo of the time contributed to her using those slurs unfortunately those two words were part of a lot of people vocabulary without realising they were being racist or homophobic. When you think of the acceptable behaviours and language of the 80s and 90s it would make you shudder to think family members and possibly ourselves used without even a thought to the derogatory affect it had

i agree. my grandfather was proper racist. he would not allow a black female nurse to feed him when he was in hospital. he would freak out if she came near him, i told him he was out of order, but he did not care. it was just the way he was.

 

[lee sumner]

Just came to find a thread on Suzy Lamplugh as I just read the Andrew Stephen book online. I have not read all of these extensive threads but think I may need to now! You all clearly know the case very well so I'm adding nothing new. As someone from the UK of course I knew this case and the author makes it clear that of 1000s who go missing every year, this one got the publicity, mainly due to Diana Lamplugh, who does not come across so well in the book. He mentions numerous times how much she enjoyed the limelight. I guess she just was doing anything she could but while its almost 100% likely Suzy was murdered, at times in the book and reading the passages about her mother, I did wonder if there is a 0.1% chance she did want to voluntarily disappear.

However it did sound like she had too much going for her to do that. I know her parents objected to the book but it was printed with the first draft and nothing was taken out, just a note at the start to say this book is not supported by them and they do not recognise the portrayal of Suzy. Reading that at the start I was expecting to find parts of the book that would be a shock but there was not much there. Single girl in her 20s has a few boyfriends and maybe a married man but nothing too wild. There was one hint that as she had managed her money well and had a lot in savings that she may have been a prostitute and apparently one of her friends suspected she may have been, but there was no evidence of it at all. Think the biggest shock I had was the use of the F word (homosexual slur) and N word in her diaries. Reading from 2024 people her age would almost never use those terms now but other than that there was not much for the parents to really not agree with as everything seemed to be backed up with diaries and by friends on the QE2.

Will need to have a proper read at these threads.

yes DL loved the attention she got from the press. she wanted to be an actress, but this dream did not work out, so i guess becoming a media darling was the next best thing. she did appear to have a very high opinion of herself before SL went missing.

 

[su5ie]

I was just thinking how come none of the witnesses that sighted the male with suzy came out and said whom they saw was Cannan. While at the time obviously he was not in the media during his trial a year or so later he was pictured .presumably HR in particular who seemed to read newspapers would have gotten to see Cannans face then . Maybe they did and its not in the public domain but if police are adamant it was him surely they would have said it to back up their claim that he was their only suspect and culprit. And if police suspected Cannan as early as 88/9 why did they not revisit witnesses. I know the intial SIO was not so convinced and thought it was Diane's meddling but surely this is a logical question

 

[su5ie]

my theory is WJ statement is total BS, and SL car was on stevenage rd late afternoon/early evening. something else i wondered was PC dollery who found SL car at 10pm. did he check to see if the engine was still warm. my guess is he did not. if the engine would have been warm, that would mean the car had been ditched there minutes earlier.

I don't know if this was done Lee does AS mention it . I often wonder how well the car was preserved when it was found I know the back shelf was lifted to see if suzy was in the boot . Which means the car was opened and a policeman or woman would have to get in back seat to do this .

Suzys car was two door so drivers seat would need to be adjusted for a person to access the back seat to kneel on seat and lift boot shelf . I think and it's my opinion only and speculation on my part that suzys seat was moved to far back unconsciously when seat was put back in upright position.

Does anyone know anything about old cars . In the early 2000 I had a 2 door navy fiesta ( I was learning to drive and I was too uncoordinated and didn't learn ) when I flipped the front seat forward using the lever on the side of the seat to get access to the back the seat moved forward so person could get in the back and the reverse happened when getting out . I don't know if this occurred in older models and prehaps my memory is not correct can anyone shed some light on that .

 

[Knitty]

This thread is closed. Please continue at Thread #7