UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986

[Terryb808]

Ooh wow yes as a parent you never want such things published and as they were middle class as well they wanted their reputation intact. But it’s still super frustrating they got so much leeway with the police.


But as you rightly pointed out to me it was a completely different era and one that I have no idea about.

Slightly off topic but at the time I knew girls just like SJL, very free and enjoying life to the full. It didn’t bother me, it was just the way life was at the time. Old saying “work hard, play hard”.

 

[Henry B]

Ooh wow yes as a parent you never want such things published and as they were middle class as well they wanted their reputation intact. But it’s still super frustrating they got so much leeway with the police.


But as you rightly pointed out to me it was a completely different era and one that I have no idea about.

I think there was still a great hangover from the days of 'keeping things nice' in those circles in the 1980s - and in DL and PL's age group and it was a bit of a strait jacket. Nowadays, there seems to be a lot of that around when discussing things too. Say the wrong thing, even the wrong words (and I'm not talking about being aggressive or attempting to offend here, just something that's not approved of that week) and you explode a minefield. We seem to have gone backwards in some ways. Drawing room manners to the fore! But I'm sure it did impede the investigation and I don't think the censoring of the AS book was helpful.

 

[Henry B]

I personally would recommend DV's book but I won't say anything else about it as it's best to read it yourself and form your own opinion.

What I will say though is that DV does have his own theory on what happened to Suzy, and he has presented his findings to the Met.

Thanks - I have ordered it. I'm not sure I like DV's style at all - he's said various things about the SJL era historically in general that are rubbish (I'm talking about gender issues in the 1980s) and seems to miss the point that somebody who is obviously psychopathic - not just 'male' - is pretty obviously involved (unless this is organised crime), taking an 'aren't we men beasts?' approach, which many chivalrous men do - but internalised misandry and the Duluth Model have never appealed to me. I note the PoW mentions. I thought there was something highly odd there, with the apparently mislaid telephone number and info about the phone calls. I assume the police went into this at the time, but all the same...

 

[Henry B]

Slightly off topic but at the time I knew girls just like SJL, very free and enjoying life to the full. It didn’t bother me, it was just the way life was at the time. Old saying “work hard, play hard”.

Absolutely - it was ordinary, everyday life then. The pill and the end of National Service had sparked a youth revolution. As the AIDS era got underway, the attitude in my peer group was to continue to have 'fun' - but take extra precautions.

 

[Henry B]

I understood that SJL spoke to AL on her phone on the Sunday evening from her flat. But this Amazon review claims: 'She saw him briefly Sun afternoon but then side-lined him again and that evening went to another man’s flat, from which she rang him for a brief chat.' Does anybody know if there is a source for this information? I understood SJL was at a friend's 21st birthday party Saturday and windsurfing on Sunday and had told her parents she was 'knackered' when she paid them a visit that evening? At first, I was convinced…

 

[Crusader21]

I was a 17 year-old working with another 15 trainee sparks in 1986. None of us barely knew girls then, so the daily salacious tabloid stories from this case was avid reading each breaktime for us!

'Never believe what you read in the papers', but to a degree borrowing the AS book from the local library seemed to confirm / hint that what was reporting was true.

Personally I've often wondered, can you really have multiple, overlapping (sexual) partners without (a) being in some sort of organised arrangement (prostitution) and / or (b) setting yourself up for an almighty fall (blackmail, assault from jealous boyfriend etc).

I've often thought too, was SL suffering from some sort of (taboo) affliction? Did her strict and religious upbringing help lead her into a double life of rebellion / sexual liberation / lies? Creating a 'frankenstein' that see no longer could control?

 

[Henry B]

I was a 17 year-old working with another 15 trainee sparks in 1986. None of us barely knew girls then, so the daily salacious tabloid stories from this case was avid reading each breaktime for us!

'Never believe what you read in the papers', but to a degree borrowing the AS book from the local library seemed to confirm / hint that what was reporting was true.

Personally I've often wondered, can you really have multiple, overlapping (sexual) partners without (a) being in some sort of organised arrangement (prostitution) and / or (b) setting yourself up for an almighty fall (blackmail, assault from jealous boyfriend etc).

I've often thought too, was SL suffering from some sort of (taboo) affliction? Did her strict and religious upbringing help lead her into a double life of rebellion / sexual liberation / lies? Creating a 'frankenstein' that see no longer could control?

It's only conjecture, but I think SJL's upbringing led her into habits of secrecy. The AS book reveals that DL took determined action to break up SJL's relationship with somebody she deemed 'unsuitable' when SJL was in her teens, sending SJL abroad. I have a chum who is the son of a very religious couple. He rebelled left right and centre once he hit his teens. Another guy I know who is gay - and in his fifties. His parents have never been told.

 

[Crusader21]

It's only conjecture

Really?! Given what was initially daily being reported in the red tops and then backed by the AS book, plus reports of material being withdrawn - deemed unfit for publication in Stevens book.

Surely more than 'only conjecture'?

 

[Henry B]

Really?! Given what was initially daily being reported in the red tops and then backed by the AS book, plus reports of material being withdrawn - deemed unfit for publication in Stevens book.

Surely more than 'only conjecture'?

I must be honest - I'm completely at sea as to what SJL's motivations were. Which, ironically, leads us back to the secrecy thing.

 

[Crusader21]

No one likes to speak ill of the dead, and it may indeed have been hurful to the Lamplugh parents to learn of some of the habits of their daughter unbeknown to them.

But imo, the key to this case lies with unravelling / understanding the unorthodox behaviour of SL. A lifestyle which led her in to associations, relationships with certain individuals which (may well have) cost her her life ....

 

[Henry B]

No one likes to speak ill of the dead, and it may indeed have been hurful to the Lamplugh parents to learn of some of the habits of their daughter unbeknown to them.

But imo, the key to this case lies with unravelling / understanding the unorthodox behaviour of SL. A lifestyle which led her in to associations, relationships with certain individuals which (may well have) cost her her life ....

I have an old magazine here from 1988 in which two of the people she shared her flat with spoke of phone calls for SJL from people - and they had no idea who they were, though I think they knew her circle of friends - the 'Putney Set', etc. They recalled this in '88 - but it's not in the AS book.

 

[Crusader21]

I have an old magazine here from 1988 in which two of the people she shared her flat with spoke of phone calls for SJL from people - and they had no idea who they were, though I think they knew her circle of friends - the 'Putney Set', etc. They recalled this in '88 - but it's not in the AS book.

Did SL share the Disraeli Rd flat with someone other than lodger Nick B? I haven't saw or read reference anywhere to an additional person.

Also it was reported that SL had been avoiding a particular couple, not returning calls etc etc. All down to a proposed business venture that SL went cold on.

Was one of these the man that SLs uncle indicated 'was putting pressure on her'? And was the other the women who said that she was infact due to meet SL that Monday lunchtime (which was postponed)?

 

[Henry B]

Did SL share the Disraeli Rd flat with someone other than lodger Nick B? I haven't saw or read reference anywhere to an additional person.

Also it was reported that SL had been avoiding a particular couple, not returning calls etc etc. All down to a proposed business venture that SL went cold on.

Was one of these the man that SLs uncle indicated 'was putting pressure on her'? And was the other the women who said that she was infact due to meet SL that Monday lunchtime (which was postponed)?

According to the 1988 mag article, SJL shared her flat with a younger female before the guy. No idea about the 'putting pressure on' guy - SJL's family have added a lot of additional information over the years that I don't recall the press featuring at the time. DL alerted the police to certain people in SJL's life according to the AS book, but they all checked out OK. I'll find the '88 article.

 

[Henry B]

Quote from 1988 mag article article (I will leave the name out): Another former flatmate.......... is convinced SJL had a secret group of friends no one knew about - and only now has she voiced her belief. 'When I lived with SJL there were always people calling who had nothing to do with the Putney set or her work. Perhaps they were people from the QE2 where she worked for about nine months, or friends she made when she was a beautician at the Hilton. Whoever they were, they might know something which could be vitally important.'

 

[Henry B]

NB, SJL's later flatmate, quoted from 1988 article: 'For a few weeks before SJL went missing, the phone would ring but all I could hear was somebody just breathing for a few eerie moments before they rang off. I kept asking "Who's there, please?", but there was never any answer.'

 

[WestLondoner]

I was 22 in 1986 and as a male of that age I was mainly interested in music, cars, making money, and women. I remember the "moral" climate very well indeed. When I left school at 18 - not before - I acquired a girlfriend from among my social circle, which was much like SJL's although a bit more focused on university. Like my mates, I was disappointed but not entirely surprised to discover that she wouldn't sleep with me because she "didn't believe in it". This was commonplace - at that time you were actually quite fortunate to find a woman who would sleep with you.

There were exceptions; I knew a woman of my own age who had slept with 500 men by the time I last touch with here about 2000. But I recall going to parties, chatting with women and being taken aside by mates who would warn me that "she doesn't do the business". It didn't change at university; it was noted that women finally gave it up, if they did, in their fourth term, when they observed how young the freshers seemed to be. As late as the early 90s I had a 25-year-old girlfriend who wouldn't do this. Another girlfriend, who lived with her parents but stayed with me at weekends in my 1-bedroom flat, related that her mother thought we didn't sleep together because "he probably doesn't want to get into all that".

This was essentially a pre-1960s attitude to pre-marital sex that SJL's parents would have shared, and that they probably assumed SJL also shared. They probably liked to imagine she didn't sleep with her boyfriends, and she would certainly have managed carefully what they did know.

As we speculated previously, however, it could easily be that SJL had slept with 50 men so far that year, and several hundred in total (or something). This would only be one new one a week since the age of 20. Maybe she slept with women too. Given her looks, she could easily have managed this. She would have to have been nonchalant about her personal safety and perhaps prepared to sleep with married or spoken-for men to scratch her itch. Perhaps that's what in her diaries.

Any of this would have appalled her parents (actually, if she had slept with 10, they would probably have been appalled by that too). It seems clear that they imagined this to be shameful and wanted it suppressed in the interests of managing her reputation.

More pertinently, given that about 1% of people are psychopaths, she may have slept with two or three, and perhaps one or more took violent exception to the other strings to her bow. The wife of a married lover could have taken exception to her in a violent way.

Her parents' insistence on managing the public perception of SJL to protect her posthumous reputation thus did her a huge disservice. Whatever you think happened that day, it seems clear that she was taken and killed by someone she knew. Hence the focus needed to be on who she knew and what was afoot between her and that person. That this was not done properly has ensured that her killer got away with it.

 

[Crusader21]

NB, SJL's later flatmate, quoted from 1988 article: 'For a few weeks before SJL went missing, the phone would ring but all I could hear was somebody just breathing for a few eerie moments before they rang off. I kept asking "Who's there, please?", but there was never any answer.'

Thank you very much Henry for sharing the '88 article, it is very interesting indeed!

Something to ponder, when it was reported that certain leads 'checked out'. Did the police actually question people of interest, analyse their responces etc or was it that info was just dismissed by the Met as it did not fit in with their Kipper / Shorrolds and then JC narrative? .....

 

[WestLondoner]

Personally I've often wondered, can you really have multiple, overlapping (sexual) partners without (a) being in some sort of organised arrangement (prostitution) and / or (b) setting yourself up for an almighty fall (blackmail, assault from jealous boyfriend etc).

It was probably easier to do then than it is now, because you couldn't be stalked on social media. So SJL could cop off with someone at a party, sleep with him at his place, and leave him with a duff landline phone number. He would never be able to track her down. Today, if he knew her name, he could find place of work off LinkedIn, and so on.

Women I knew used who were trying to get rid of men would give them the phone number of the local police station, instead of their own number. Others would let a brother, husband or lodger answer the phone so that any man calling would suddenly realise they were spoken for.

But yes, everyone I know who tried to two-time found it didn't work because if you were with one, the other would always wonder why weren't you free on Saturday night. The solution was to date serially not in parallel - which would require some pretty brutal dismissals of Peter to make way for Paul. If the numbers are high enough, sooner or later SJL was likely to annoy a psychopath.

 

[asyousay]

Some great spots this morning


You can’t but help fear that Suzy’s secrets are the key to this . I still keep coming back to the pub and her items being taken and then turning up. I just don’t think that’s coincidental.


MOO

 

[Crusader21]

I don't even think it has to be a psycho.

A male who felt he was severely 'wronged' in some sort of way may have challenged SL on that Monday lunchtime. The ensuing arguement could have escalated, culminating in an attack and death. It's not too hard to envisage ....