GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[Zantia]

Thanks for the insights, India. Would there be a drop-down ladder? I'm wondering if the reason they brought in another ladder was to lay it on the joists so as to avoid stepping on the ceiling.

I imagine that they brought in a step ladder so that the dog could go up there.

(Sorry if this has been posted before.....)

 

[Louvie]

I imagine that they brought in a step ladder so that the dog could go up there.

(Sorry if this has been posted before.....)

This. With the second reason being that the original ladder (if indeed the house had one) would obviously be considered evidence, so I presume the police would take in a ladder of their own rather than having a dozen officers/coroner/etc traipsing all over potentially useful fingerprints/fibre/DNA evidence..

 

[Jaccles]

This. With the second reason being that the original ladder (if indeed the house had one) would obviously be considered evidence, so I presume the police would take in a ladder of their own rather than having a dozen officers/coroner/etc traipsing all over potentially useful fingerprints/fibre/DNA evidence..

I'm assuming if the house had a ladder then it would have been seen my the media being removed from the property as evidence? Therefore I was working on the assumption there wasn't one in the house...unless anyone has seen this?

I'm guessing that the first search was done by standing on a chair.

 

[Jaccles]

Jaccles, great first post and :wagon:

Thank you, nice to find people with similar curious minds!

 

[graceholl]

Body confirmed by police as Tia's

 

[josie1986]

The initial reports said that she was in a black bag. They did not specify whether that bag was a plastic rubbish bag or perhaps something like a sports holdall.

just speculation on my part,bin liners are commonly known as "black bags" around here.not sure about anywhere else in the uk though.

I imagine that they brought in a step ladder so that the dog could go up there.

(Sorry if this has been posted before.....)

from the houses i have lived in and the many i have been in there isnt a "drop down" ladder to the loft unless it has been converted to a fully functioning room.

maybe there was a ladder in the house and the reason the police took their own is they didnt want to tamper with potential evidence or there wasn't a ladder and he used a dining room chair or something to that effect

 

[josie1986]

Body confirmed by police as Tia's

finally.....now i want to know why it took so long.:waitasec:

 

[josie1986]

I'm assuming if the house had a ladder then it would have been seen my the media being removed from the property as evidence? Therefore I was working on the assumption there wasn't one in the house...unless anyone has seen this?

I'm guessing that the first search was done by standing on a chair.

welcome to WS :welcome:

 

[graceholl]

finally.....now i want to know why it took so long.:waitasec:

Ditto!

Here is the link for anyone who wants to see it

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/...rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

not that it really matters but

It does matter... and thank you, India99! :seeya:

It also helps so much to get info. from the people who live(ed) around the area in question!

By the way...

:welcome::welcome4::Banane37::Banane09:
:welcome3::welcome5::Welcome1:

 

[soozieqtips]

Is it possible to resize the map at all? It's so big that I have to scroll to the right a long way to read a post. Makes it hard if you can't see the full post without scrolling.

Attaching a screenshot so you can see what I mean. Look at the scroll bar at the bottom.

Is anyone else having the same problem? If not, ignore me



Oh, hope that pic comes out bigger than it looks in the preview!

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

BBM


Agreed, that is how it sounded to me too and let's face it, it's true. But it's true also that this is a situation confronting any parent or primary carer of a missing child/individual. It comes with the territory, for good or ill. However, most contend with it, don't they? After all, their focus is on finding their missing loved-one and that concern, that focus, if genuine, obliterates everything in its path - and that single minded focus, that choked-throat concern on the part of the searching parent, is obvious to everyone around them. It would be a fool or very brave individual who attempted to divert a parent in that situation. So whilst there may be gawpers and the maudlin, they'd be blown to the kerb -- and are in most instances -- by the parent's desperate energy. As such, I still find it very strange that the mother chose to remain so low-key. It has been noted by many others, so I know I'm not alone in finding the mother's and even the step-father's minimal involvement and deference to SH to be 'unusual', shall we say

This is PURELY theoretical... and just a couple of thoughts...

But...

Could some of the adults surrounding Tia be heavily into drugs?

Would they "need" a drug runner to feed their habits/addictions?

Could SH have been this person? And, therefore, would the adults choose to stand by this guy, instead of noting the clues that he could have harmed Tia?

Post Tia's absence, was NS actually going through a type of detox that prevented her from reaching out to the public for help finding her daughter?

I have nothing to substantiate this... but I am envisioning a sub-culture where drugs/alcohol run rampant in the area where they live.

JMO and MOO

 

[Inge Jones]

Would help too if the map wasn't included in quotes posts

 

[Lurkio]

just like to say Hi to everyone
this looks like a great forum with very helpful and informed members

my username I chose as have been lurking and for fellow Brits who are fans of 'the Royle family' you will know Jim used to call Anthony this!
always makes me laugh

I have been following this case from the start with horror hoping this poor girl would be found safe
many of my thoughts a couple of days in unfortunately mirrored many members here as to where the case was going

I was going to post on the key day SH was arrested but took a day to authorise account here so lost momentum

a few thoughts I have a couple I think haven't been mentioned or fully explored...
(btw I have read every post on both 2 main threads so will try not to repeat past ideas and observations?)

when SH was picked up by Police (who inexplicably let him off their radar :banghead: and needed the help of an 11 year old girl and the public to spot him) he had cut off all his hair and shaved his goatee
if you look at the cctv of when he is in shop and when his head is being held down (by himself) no cuffs :banghead:

this to me indicates he knew game was up he had dragged it out as long as possible and left. in his mind I don't think even he knew what he could achieve but was a desperate man and had to go

I think he gave himself 2 options.

1/ try and disappear off and make into the night, which he nearlydid. dusk was drawing in, another hour it would have been a whole different story
plus we know going by raoul moat we would have needed sas and tornado jets and still not found him (roll eyes)

2/ top himself if things didn't go to plan

he had the baseball cap on too to help disguise himself
he probably took some leaflets too as a just in case alibi if he bottled out of the suicide

I think if he had nailed the whole bottle of vodka he may have had drugs too to go for the 'easy' suicide in the woods. an overdose

again just my thoughts
in the end guilt catching up and mentally losing plot over the enormous pressure of committing the worst possible crime there is he just started breaking down which led to his arrrest through the help of the public

now back to his 'haircut'
this is not a number 1 in haircutting terms.
this is a zero
i.e the haircut length you get if just using the metal cutters and no plastic attachment
the sort marines get or skinheads
same length when they shave animals before an operation
http://www.dee1063.com/tia-sharps-grandmother-is-murder-suspect/
here's a pic of him just after arrest

now on the cctv he looks clean shaven to me
[video=youtube;QUyKNgtAADg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyKNgtAADg[/video]

I know he has blond hair, and is hard to see but is way it looks to me

but then in the court drawing of him appearing via video link from police station, the goatee is back and the hair!
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/727669/thumbs/o-STUART-HAZELL-COURT-DRAWING-570.jpg?4

a very lazy court artist I think who perchance wasn't even there!

one thing I really wanted to mention was there are quite a few people suggesting it would be hard/impossible for a man to carry a young girl up a ladder on own
forget that thought. it would need a very unfit weak man NOT to be able to
I think it was only female posters suggesting this but difference of strength is huge imo between average man and women, even if same size

a firemans lift is very easy. try it on a friend, same size as you
you will amaze youself

a real firemans lift involves grabbing one arm, putting behind your head and shoulder, then bend knees leaning into body and other peson will fall across right shoulder and down back., then as stand up holding arm, bump them across shoulders so are laying across
(I was fireman for 15 years)
for a small child going up a small ladder same thing but for tight openings into the loft over one shoulder. or tbh over arms and walk up ladder, she was only small


lastly before I post back, thanks for the great discussion
everytime a case like this ends like this I think a piece of everyonme dies tbh
inside and some of our freedoms and childrens freedoms
I really don't know what the answer is , but the punishment will not be enough

he will know how the prison system works, fed and boarding for life
plus we like to think someone will get at him but look at Rose West
she can be seen laughing and joking with fellow inmates, doing theatre together etc
it's a disgrace
anywya, I talk too much :seeya:

 

[Distant Observer]

Lurkio, you're obviously under the age of 40 as Lurkio was originally the name of the Frankie Howerd character in Up Pompeii! Great name though

 

[Jaccles]

Hi Lurkio

Good point re the shaving, hadn't noticed that.

I think he could have carried her if he had a ladder but presumably if there was one it would have been removed as evidence and with all the media camped outside someone would have noticed this surely? IMO...

 

[Lurkio]

one of the things I have felt from outset which seems to vary a lot from many members here and other places online is that of DS
Tia's uncle

out of all the family I actually got the best vibe from him
I think he probably was the spokesman as although he was very close to Tia he was detached enough not to be in complete bits like her mum and stepdad
he looks pretty presentable and is pretty intelligent imo
I didn't get the impression he was coaching SH at all, more watching him closely

let's be honest, noone could possibly suspect anyone in their family or extended family of such a thing
if you had any proof it would be too late already
people don't walk around with signs on their heads and SH was an accomplished liar as he has proved
plus SH is older than him and when SH was with NS , DS would have been prob late teens , so impressionable

there was an extract of speech by PS, Tia's REAL Grandad
I know it's in 'The Scum' and everything has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt in that rag but worth mentioning:

Paul — due to take Tia on a caravan holiday this week — said his granddaughter will “burn like a candle in my heart until I die”.

He added: “It’s just horrible, terrible, heartbreaking. It’s killing me all this.”

Paul told how his son David, 28 — Tia’s uncle — was going to pick her up to join him at the caravan park he had booked. Danielle, his 12-year-old daughter by another partner, was looking forward to seeing Tia, her niece.

Paul said: “Now that’s all gone and I’m destroyed.”

Christine and Paul divorced 14 years ago. They had two children — David and Tia’s mum Natalie, 31. Paul said he will never forgive Christine for getting together with Hazell — who she knew had previously dated Natalie.

He said: “I don’t ever want to speak to her and I don’t even want to speak to my daughter. They have let that man back into their lives. Natalie got rid of him once and then Christine let him back in again. It’s disgusting and I don’t want to know.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4483154/Cops-say-sorry-as-Tia-gran-held.html#ixzz23XVVWiOn

The bolded part I find very telling and shocking.
bear in mind the person feeling the most gut wrenching emotions must be NS, Tia's mother
yet her dad refuses to even speak to her or comfort her!

there must be a lot of history and untold tales in poor Tia's life

the other thing is DS and PS were meant to be taking Tia on a caravan trip, so were good guys imo
taking her on a nice break with family
tragically she never got to enjoy the break and was no doubt really looking forward to it as all kids do
that I find utterly heartbreaking

 

[wfgodot]

Ah! the Currant Bun! Sun's done a fine job so far with this sad story, but that's to be expected really, true crime being a tabloid staple since day dot.

(Must read: "Stick It Up Your Punter! The Rise and Fall of The Sun")

 

[Lurkio]

if you think police investigations can't get worse or botched further
things are set to get a lot worse
you couldn't make it up

we really need to fight this. and at the ballot box, vote with your feet
police aren't perfect, but by God I will take them everytime over a private police force, or semi privatised parts

the private sector has been itching to get their hands on all this tax payer money in the public sector
obviously the right mp's have been lobbied and paid off
they've managed it in the 'arms' (killing) industry. oops, sorry, I mean 'defence' industry


sorry, back on topic...........

 

[TykeyTrouble]

Who in their right mind would be scared of any of those 3 lol

They tried too hard to look menacing and failed with flying colours lol[/QUOTE]

I thought the two henchmen looked kinda sweet if not a little surprised that they had ended up doing a media appeal for their mate's niece. Certainly the one on the right appeared uncomfortable but he was probably thinking "why am I here?. Shouldn't an actual family member be doing this?"