GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[Cherwell]

I would have thought if he did have a vehicle or access to one other than Granny's then it would have been seen collected for forensic investigation .

That is exactly why people assumed Tabak had no car. Goes to show that we don't get to hear about everything.

 

[India99]

It's quite possible that she went to the shops (rather than specifically the co-op) and therefore walked (?) the extra few hundred yards for the extra choice of shops available.

there are actually less shops available to a kid her age where she was seen on the thursday.

there are only about 10 shops there.

where the other CO-OP is theres a massive parade of shops which would have a lot more choice for a 12 yr old girl.

 

[laserdisc10]

there are actually less shops available to a kid her age where she was seen on the thursday.

there are only about 10 shops there.

where the other CO-OP is theres a massive parade of shops which would have a lot more choice for a 12 yr old girl.

Thank you

These are details of which non-locals have little to no knowledge

 

[Distant Observer]

In reply to questions regarding the loft access and drop-down ladders. Council housing generally has a very small hatch by which to access the loft. Normally not much bigger than 24 inches by 18 inches and maybe significantly smaller. The hatch is normally in the hall or as I think in this case in the 'box room' i.e. the third bedroom which is normally only 8ft by 6ft. Because the hatch is so small, loft ladders cannot normally be fitted and you need a stepladder to climb into the loft. Quite easy for someone nimble and wiry like SH but tricky for a strapping police constable.

I suspect the policeman did not go into the loft but merely shone a torch and therefore didn't see the black bag/sheet which may have also been behind the cold water tank - which is about 3ft x 3ft x 3ft. To pre-empt the question, these houses are built with the water tank in situ before the ceiling and roof are in place as obviously the tank is much bigger than the access hatch.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Latest from the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...veals-mothers-heartbreak-death-baby-girl.html

 

[Lola]

And an article that pretty much echoes what India has said -- http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/ti...ington-benighted-estate-tia-sharp-called-home

 

[India99]

Thank you

These are details of which non-locals have little to no knowledge

This should give you more of an idea

This is where she was seen on the Thursday

These are the shops on the estate she was visiting

And those shops stretch as far to the right this pic as you can see

 

[Lola]

A pathologist found no obvious major injuries to her body, leading to the theory that she was smothered or strangled

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...heartbreak-death-baby-girl.html#ixzz23Vvtz8Uw

 

[Cherwell]

I suspect the policeman did not go into the loft but merely shone a torch and therefore didn't see the black bag/sheet which may have also been behind the cold water tank

I doubt they expected to find a dead body in the house. I think they would have been checking to see that Tia wasn't trapped up there having possibly been exploring. Or hiding.

India 99
Is it possible for you to show where the local shops are on the map you posted?

Could someone give me a link to the map, please?

 

[India99]

In reply to questions regarding the loft access and drop-down ladders. Council housing generally has a very small hatch by which to access the loft. Normally not much bigger than 24 inches by 18 inches and maybe significantly smaller. The hatch is normally in the hall or as I think in this case in the 'box room' i.e. the third bedroom which is normally only 8ft by 6ft. Because the hatch is so small, loft ladders cannot normally be fitted and you need a stepladder to climb into the loft. Quite easy for someone nimble and wiry like SH but tricky for a strapping police constable.

I suspect the policeman did not go into the loft but merely shone a torch and therefore didn't see the black bag/sheet which may have also been behind the cold water tank - which is about 3ft x 3ft x 3ft. To pre-empt the question, these houses are built with the water tank in situ before the ceiling and roof are in place as obviously the tank is much bigger than the access hatch.

the loft hatch was actually at the top of the stairs in the one i lived in and you're nearly right about the sizes, hatch was about 36 inches square but there would be no way you could fit a loft ladder, i used to use a normal ladder and it actually blocked access to 2 rooms while the ladder was being used.

There would have been enough room for a copper with full kit on to get through that hatch but as i suspect that the loft had no flooring he wouldn't have gone further than putting his head through.

 

[laserdisc10]

there are actually less shops available to a kid her age where she was seen on the thursday.

there are only about 10 shops there.

where the other CO-OP is theres a massive parade of shops which would have a lot more choice for a 12 yr old girl.

In perusing the maps you've provided it becomes clear just how much green-space lies in close proximity to the CS-SH dwelling in the Lindens. Difficult to understand why the killer/s didn't deposit the child's remains there before raising the alarm

Obviously we're speaking of individual/s who're prepared to take a child's life to begin with, so maybe criticising their seeming lack of logic is an exercise in pointlessness, but seeing how we've strayed into discussing those who kill children and then live, eat, sleep mere feet beneath the body for a week, it's still curious as to why they didn't attempt to put distance between themselves and the body at the outset. Leaving it in their loft was a short-term solution and by day 7 approx., discovery was imminent. Yet all around that loft are seemingly acres of opportunity

 

[India99]

I doubt they expected to find a dead body in the house. I think they would have been checking to see that Tia wasn't trapped up there having possibly been exploring. Or hiding.



Could someone give me a link to the map, please?

post 939

 

[MobyBluff]

there are actually less shops available to a kid her age where she was seen on the thursday.

there are only about 10 shops there.

where the other CO-OP is theres a massive parade of shops which would have a lot more choice for a 12 yr old girl.

The co-op she was seen outside is close to Gravel Hill tram stop. She got off there and did some shopping with SH in the co-op and then went back. It's not much further than the other co-op and en-route as opposed to post-route.

 

[India99]

In perusing the maps you've provided it becomes clear just how much green-space lies in close proximity to the CS-SH dwelling in the Lindens. Difficult to understand why the killer/s didn't deposit the child's remains there before raising the alarm

Obviously we're speaking of individual/s who're prepared to take a child's life to begin with, so maybe criticising their seeming lack of logic is an exercise in pointlessness, but seeing how we've strayed into discussing those who kill children and then live, eat, sleep mere feet beneath the body for a week, it's still curious as to why they didn't attempt to put distance between themselves and the body at the outset. Leaving it in their loft was a short-term solution and by day 7 approx., discovery was imminent. Yet all around that loft are seemingly acres of opportunity

as soon as you go out of the top of that estate you have MILES of fields and woodland not acres.

and it wouldn't have been the first time somebody from New Addington had murdered a member of their own family and dumped the body in those miles of open countryside if they had done.

 

[India99]

The co-op she was seen outside is close to Gravel Hill tram stop. She got off there and did some shopping with SH in the co-op and then went back. It's not much further than the other co-op and en-route as opposed to post-route.

Not much further but why would anybody go shopping and then have to walk along a dual carriage way and up a hill to home instead of downhill along quiet local roads ?

I guess we'll never know to be honest, only SH knows why they went there.

 

[India99]

And an article that pretty much echoes what India has said -- http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/ti...ington-benighted-estate-tia-sharp-called-home

Over the years there have been many murders on that estate, quite a few shootings and even the stabbing to death of a Police Sgt who confronted some armed robbers who were robbing a post office there in Calley Down Crescent in 1994.

Sgt Derek Robertson, 39, was stabbed to death at New Addington, south London, as he investigated a robbery at a sub-post office in February 1994.

Sergeant Derek Robertson (warrant number 164954) was called to an armed robbery at New Addington, tackled a suspect, was stabbed to death and was awarded a Queen's Gallantry Medal in 1996

I can guarantee you that the local people didnt come out in their hundreds to help when that happened.

 

[laserdisc10]

Thanks for the photos, India

Pleasant surprise. I was expecting boarded up shop-fronts, gangs of hoody wearers, burnt-out cars, graffiti and worse, based on comments about the region online

The lower photo is quite picturesque, isn't it. The upper photo doesn't seem as prosperous, but then as you say, it has strong competition quite close by so overheads would be kept to a minimum

Currently we live in a large city on the other side of the globe. We live in a residential complex of privately owned townhouses approx. 10 years old which probably isn't all that superior to the council estate townhouses in Linden and district. We're only a handful of kilometres from city central and as such, it's prime real estate, much in demand and the price on the townhouse we occupy wouldn't leave you much change from a million dollars (with, to be considered, mandatory $120 per week fees and levies for upkeep charged to all owners) AND the shopping district up the road isn't a patch on that in the lower (nicer) photo you've posted, lol and public transport here is virtually non-existent. Making me suspect the Daily Mail has been having us on, re: allegedly 'Broken Britain'

 

[Clio]

Apologies if this has already been posted

Danny Shaw‏@DannyShawBBC

Serious case review launched following death of #Tia Sharp. It's standard procedure when a child dies & abuse or neglect is known/suspected

 

[Skigh]

In perusing the maps you've provided it becomes clear just how much green-space lies in close proximity to the CS-SH dwelling in the Lindens. Difficult to understand why the killer/s didn't deposit the child's remains there before raising the alarm

Obviously we're speaking of individual/s who're prepared to take a child's life to begin with, so maybe criticising their seeming lack of logic is an exercise in pointlessness, but seeing how we've strayed into discussing those who kill children and then live, eat, sleep mere feet beneath the body for a week, it's still curious as to why they didn't attempt to put distance between themselves and the body at the outset. Leaving it in their loft was a short-term solution and by day 7 approx., discovery was imminent. Yet all around that loft are seemingly acres of opportunity

It could be the loft was only a temporary hiding place and they did not realise how much media attention was going to be on the house.I would imagine all the houses are overlooked so they could have been spotted by neighbours moving a body out of the house.

 

[MobyBluff]

Not much further but why would anybody go shopping and then have to walk along a dual carriage way and up a hill to home instead of downhill along quiet local roads ?

I guess we'll never know to be honest, only SH knows why they went there.

I'd rather walk along that grassy road than through New Addington, to be fair, although I doubt that's the reason. More likely SH was having a beer a pub in the Addington Village area?