GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[laserdisc10]

It could be the loft was only a temporary hiding place and they did not realise how much media attention was going to be on the house.I would imagine all the houses are overlooked so they could have been spotted by neighbours moving a body out of the house.

Yes, I agree that once they'd raised the alarm, their options were severely curtailed from that point on. What do killers fear most though - loss of liberty (seeing there is no longer the death-penalty to worry about). They don't want to lose their liberty/be locked in prison for a few years

Once they've killed the victim, that victim becomes a symbol of impending arrest and loss of liberty, so as a rule they make an effort to put distance between themselves and the victim. And most killers would at least plan ahead at least as far as removing the victim from their immediate vicinity before raising the alarm

No wonder this crime is hard to get a handle on

 

[MobyBluff]

Thanks for the photos, India

Pleasant surprise. I was expecting boarded up shop-fronts, gangs of hoody wearers, burnt-out cars, graffiti and worse, based on comments about the region online

The lower photo is quite picturesque, isn't it. The upper photo doesn't seem as prosperous, but then as you say, it has strong competition quite close by so overheads would be kept to a minimum

Currently we live in a large city on the other side of the globe. We live in a residential complex of privately owned townhouses approx. 10 years old which probably isn't all that superior to the council estate townhouses in Linden and district. We're only a handful of kilometres from city central and as such, it's prime real estate, much in demand and the price on the townhouse we occupy wouldn't leave you much change from a million dollars (with, to be considered, mandatory $120 per week fees and levies for upkeep charged to all owners) AND the shopping district up the road isn't a patch on that in the lower (nicer) photo you've posted, lol and public transport here is virtually non-existent. Making me suspect the Daily Mail has been having us on, re: allegedly 'Broken Britain'

Trust me, although there is a lot of open space and respectful towns surrounding New Addington, New Addington is a world of it's own!

 

[India99]

I'd rather walk along that grassy road than through New Addington, to be fair, although I doubt that's the reason. More likely SH was having a beer a pub in the Addington Village area?

There's only one pub/restaurant there and i doubt they'd let him in looking like he does

 

[Cherwell]

Just in case anyone else has the same issues, I cannot see the map or photos in Firefox, although I can in Chrome. May be something to do with add-ons.

 

[Skigh]

There's only one pub/restaurant there and i doubt they'd let him in looking like he does

Would not many of the New Addington estate look similar to SH?

 

[India99]

Thanks for the photos, India

Pleasant surprise. I was expecting boarded up shop-fronts, gangs of hoody wearers, burnt-out cars, graffiti and worse, based on comments about the region online

The lower photo is quite picturesque, isn't it. The upper photo doesn't seem as prosperous, but then as you say, it has strong competition quite close by so overheads would be kept to a minimum

Currently we live in a large city on the other side of the globe. We live in a residential complex of privately owned townhouses approx. 10 years old which probably isn't all that superior to the council estate townhouses in Linden and district. We're only a handful of kilometres from city central and as such, it's prime real estate, much in demand and the price on the townhouse we occupy wouldn't leave you much change from a million dollars (with, to be considered, mandatory $120 per week fees and levies for upkeep charged to all owners) AND the shopping district up the road isn't a patch on that in the lower (nicer) photo you've posted, lol and public transport here is virtually non-existent. Making me suspect the Daily Mail has been having us on, re: allegedly 'Broken Britain'

the more run down shops are on an estate that has no council tenants at all, its all private, i used to live there too, my ex wife actually grew up there.

Its also riddled with car crime, even had one of my own cars stolen from there and you can guess where they usually find these cars if they are ever found (mine never was found even to this day lol)

One of my sons even had his bicycle stolen from the back garden one night, i heard something outside and went to look, saw nothing and thought nothing of it, then something made me look again, bike missing, jumped in my car (one they didnt steal lol) and had a drive round, drove towards new addington and saw it being ridden down an alleyway never to be seen again.

Its a well known fact that the reason New Addington kids steal from Forestdale (where the more run down shops are) is because the kids there have parents who have decent jobs etc and can afford to buy nice things.

Kids in New Addington are pretty much brought up to steal instead of buy.

I do have one friend who was born on that estate, his dad was a Policeman, he moved off of that estate about 20 years ago, he is now the CEO of a big company, owns a nice big house and drives a very nice car and his wife is gorgeous lol.

So there is hope for the very few.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Yes, I agree that once they'd raised the alarm, their options were severely curtailed from that point on. What do killers fear most though - loss of liberty (seeing there is no longer the death-penalty to worry about). They don't want to lose their liberty/be locked in prison for a few years

Once they've killed the victim, that victim becomes a symbol of impending arrest and loss of liberty, so as a rule they make an effort to put distance between themselves and the victim. And most killers would at least plan ahead at least as far as removing the victim from their immediate vicinity before raising the alarm

No wonder this crime is hard to get a handle on

It might have been a combination of not wanting to be seen by neighbours and the crime occurring not long before CS was due home from work.

 

[India99]

Would not many of the New Addington estate look similar to SH?

most do

 

[laserdisc10]

Would not many of the New Addington estate look similar to SH?

In his defence, he's always looked clean and cleanly dressed in the photos I've seen and whether or not the hair and goatee are to everyone's taste, he could be said to be well-groomed. At his arrest, for example, people online noted he'd very recently had a hair-cut

 

[India99]

It might have been a combination of not wanting to be seen by neighbours and the crime occurring not long before CS was due home from work.

I don't want to lose my liberty either, maybe that's why i don't kill people.

 

[India99]

In his defence, he's always looked clean and cleanly dressed in the photos I've seen and whether or not the hair and goatee are to everyone's taste, he could be said to be well-groomed. At his arrest, for example, people online noted he'd very recently had a hair-cut

He may have been clean etc but they all have that lived in look about them on that estate.

I'm no oil painting but at least my face doesn't look like a bag of spanners just yet lol, and i'm 42 before anybody asks.

 

[MobyBluff]

There's only one pub/restaurant there and i doubt they'd let him in looking like he does

If you're talking about the Pub opposite the co-op shops, it always look very uninviting when I drive past! The Beefeater is Addington Village has improved though..

 

[Cherwell]

Once they've killed the victim, that victim becomes a symbol of impending arrest and loss of liberty, so as a rule they make an effort to put distance between themselves and the victim. And most killers would at least plan ahead at least as far as removing the victim from their immediate vicinity before raising the alarm

Exactly - and this is why I imagine the police weren't expecting to find a body in the house.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

It could be the loft was only a temporary hiding place and they did not realise how much media attention was going to be on the house.I would imagine all the houses are overlooked so they could have been spotted by neighbours moving a body out of the house.

He might have thought that because of the area and Tia's age the police might not have taken it so seriously, and classed it as being a runaway situation. However, it was still going to prove difficult to move her afterwards, but perhaps he hadn't thought that far ahead.

 

[graceholl]

Harriet Tolputt ‏@skynewsgatherer
RT “@skymartinbrunt: #tiasharp Autopsy on body to resume on Thursday after being halted on Saturday for unexplained reasons”

 

[India99]

If you're talking about the Pub opposite the co-op shops, it always look very uninviting when I drive past! The Beefeater is Addington Village has improved though..

Yeah i wouldn't drink in the Forestdale Pub either lol

I've been in there once in my whole life and it was a bit too clicky for my liking.

Or is it called The Dale, been a while since i took much notice when driving up to Selsdon

 

[laserdisc10]

the more run down shops are on an estate that has no council tenants at all, its all private, i used to live there too, my ex wife actually grew up there.

Its also riddled with car crime, even had one of my own cars stolen from there and you can guess where they usually find these cars if they are ever found (mine never was found even to this day lol)

One of my sons even had his bicycle stolen from the back garden one night, i heard something outside and went to look, saw nothing and thought nothing of it, then something made me look again, bike missing, jumped in my car (one they didnt steal lol) and had a drive round, drove towards new addington and saw it being ridden down an alleyway never to be seen again.

Its a well known fact that the reason New Addington kids steal from Forestdale (where the more run down shops are) is because the kids there have parents who have decent jobs etc and can afford to buy nice things.

Kids in New Addington are pretty much brought up to steal instead of buy.

I do have one friend who was born on that estate, his dad was a Policeman, he moved off of that estate about 20 years ago, he is now the CEO of a big company, owns a nice big house and drives a very nice car and his wife is gorgeous lol.

So there is hope for the very few.

Thanks for all this information, it's interesting in addition to being relevant to the case

The situation you describe isn't dissimilar to the city in which we live currently, with the difference being, in this country there's very little public/council housing - hence the very expensive property prices

In the UK, despite it surely not being the intention of planners of public/social/council housing estates, there seems to be a concentration of lower-paid families interspersed with those reliant upon welfare within estates like Addington, for example. Here on the other hand, million dollar homes can be surrounded by similar ghetto-type environments, very often dominated by one or another ethnic groups who seem to take inspiration from US gang cultures. Formerly respectable working to middle-class suburbs are reduced to no-go areas within a decade as a result. It's a constant battle to urbanise and redevelop sectors and attract buyers whilst simultaneously driving out less desirable elements (who move on to destroy another suburb). In short, whereas the UK appears to localise these elements, in this country they're dispersed within the wider community. But there's crime here, such as you've described, although the media here tends to downplay it, whereas in the UK, the media delivers it warts and all, seemingly

 

[India99]

Exactly - and this is why I imagine the police weren't expecting to find a body in the house.

It amazes me he didn't try and do a runner or at least panic the first time they said they were going to search it.

 

[laserdisc10]

Exactly - and this is why I imagine the police weren't expecting to find a body in the house.

Ah well, this case will serve as an example for the future, no doubt

 

[laserdisc10]

It amazes me he didn't try and do a runner or at least panic the first time they said they were going to search it.

Ditto

Which is why there are so many conspiracy type theories doing the rounds