GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

[laserdisc10]

Perhaps because mobile phone usage tells its own story and they had to find what they thought was a plausable story for Tia to be missing for a while with out a mobile.They also might have needed time to make sure no incriminating DNA was left on her clothing.

Once TS was dead, they could have put her body in several places, either in the green-space near CS's place or down an embankment or any one of numerous locations. This could have been achieved manually(on foot) or using CS's vehicle

NS's phone (if in fact TS was in possession of it at the time) could have had the sim removed after which it could have been dumped anywhere at all -- from a vehicle, in a ditch, in a garbage bin in town, etc. Same could be said of TS's phone (if in fact it remained at NS's place as SH etc. claimed)

The question most difficult to formulate answers for is WHY (if their story was a pack of lies) they elected to notify police of TS's alleged disappearance as early as they did (if we accept, that is, authorities' claims that decomposition had become as advanced as it reportedly was in the space of one week)

Edit: really struggling with this site tonight. Taken me five minutes to post the above

 

[Adorabella]

Morning All!

Just sitting here thinking what do we actually know for sure?

Perhaps if we make a list of all the actual facts and a separate list of what we know to be lies, perhaps somewhere in the midst of that something will be come clear.

As in - a few of us read the DN interview which states that he expected TS home on the Thursday at 6pm - that appears not to be fact because others here feel that it's a mishmash of info and interviews. Not sure I believe that but for now it would be great to get a comprehensive list of what is and isn't true as my brain really is losing and gaining info by the second!

I'll start with:
TS seen on Co-op CCTV at c. 4pm Thursday 3rd
TS wearing yellow vest top and carrying hand bag
TS reported missing Friday 4th
Pizza found in oven
TS's body was found in the loft at SH/ G'ma's house
SH arrested for murder
CS arrested on suspicion of murder
PM arrested for assisting an offender * btw is G'ma also considered and offender?

Would appreciate anything you can add and amend till we have the full list.

Thank you.

 

[Alyce]

Sorry to bang on about this but I really think the BIB should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Dont think you are Clio, is a very reasonable point you are making.

Having read so many conflicting quotes/stories I am , today, of the opinion that much of what has been reported can be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

The flip flops story is another one that is getting double quotes, with both DN and SH saying that TS told them she was going to buy flip flops.
May be nothing or may be more indication of a story being created and various people getting their parts muddled up

 

[Alyce]

The question most difficult to formulate answers for is WHY (if their story was a pack of lies) they elected to notify police of TS's alleged disappearance as early as they did (if we accept, that is, authorities' claims that decomposition had become as advanced as it reportedly was in the space of one week)

Edit: [/I]

My thought on this is that it was the phone that presented the problem.
An explanation could - just about - be given for no usage of the phone from Thursday evening until Friday midday
ie, Thursday playing on Xbox, Friday getting up late, getting ready to go out.....fairly weak excuses imo but still just about feasible.

But, after this time, there is no excuse for lack of phone usage, other than the one that was given - ie phone left on charge in the house.

So I think they could hardly wait until Saturday or beyond to report TS as missing, because first thing police likely to say is where you not concerned by Friday evening, 12 year old girl out without a phone, never been out late before etc...

 

[laserdisc10]

There's also a question mark hanging over reports that police speculated TS may have still been alive if initial searches had been more exhaustive - or words to that effect

Ok, they may be simply 'reports' of police speculation re: that issue. I don't have access to Brit tv news so am reliant upon whatever can be gleaned from internet and links provided by other sleuthers. If police have speculated TS may have been alive early in the investigation though, I'm finding it difficult to reconcile such police speculation with reports that dental records were necessary for identification because the body was in such advanced stage of decomposition, as I've said previously

The two do not go together: very advanced decomposition supposedly within one week compared with speculation TS might still have been alive early that same week

 

[laserdisc10]

My thought on this is that it was the phone that presented the problem.
An explanation could - just about - be given for no usage of the phone from Thursday evening until Friday midday
ie, Thursday playing on Xbox, Friday getting up late, getting ready to go out.....fairly weak excuses imo but still just about feasible.

But, after this time, there is no excuse for lack of phone usage, other than the one that was given - ie phone left on charge in the house.

So I think they could hardly wait until Saturday or beyond to report TS as missing, because first thing police likely to say is where you not concerned by Friday evening, 12 year old girl out without a phone, never been out late before etc...

I don't use mobile phones so may be incorrect in this, but is it not possible to remove the sim-card from phones, rendering them useless from an investigative point of view, apart from reliance upon 'ping-signals' which indicate when the phone/s last accessed the nearest towers?

If it's possible, the killer/s could have removed the sim, couldn't they, and then tossed the phone anywhere at all. If so, even if the phone was discovered in grass or in a bin in town, it would not (if wiped clean) throw suspicion on the killer/s ?

Same could be done to NS's phone, which could have been explained away to investigators as having been stolen?

 

[Skigh]

Once TS was dead, they could have put her body in several places, either in the green-space near CS's place or down an embankment or any one of numerous locations. This could have been achieved manually(on foot) or using CS's vehicle

NS's phone (if in fact TS was in possession of it at the time) could have had the sim removed after which it could have been dumped anywhere at all -- from a vehicle, in a ditch, in a garbage bin in town, etc. Same could be said of TS's phone (if in fact it remained at NS's place as SH etc. claimed)

The question most difficult to formulate answers for is WHY (if their story was a pack of lies) they elected to notify police of TS's alleged disappearance as early as they did (if we accept, that is, authorities' claims that decomposition had become as advanced as it reportedly was in the space of one week)

Edit: really struggling with this site tonight. Taken me five minutes to post the above

Tia has to go missing from somewhere. The obvious place would be from where the last signals from her mobile were.
If she had been using her mobile on Wednesday evening and then the sim card was removed then that would be the police would start looking.
It is not the actual mobile its self that is the problem but the records it holds
Police tracked Jessica and Holly's mobile signal to Huntleys house but never found Jessica's phone.

 

[Why why why]

I'm still thinking further to the conversations on here in the last 48 hours, but I believe that SH did not act alone and whether the death of TS was accidental or not, DS, NS, CS and DN knew, either before or after the fact and attempted to assist SH in his story.

I believe the body was not in the loft all that time for reasons I stated in my first post on this forum, ie, I don't believe the police could have missed the body so many times. I believe that maybe SH and TS were not alone in the house all evening on Thursday since there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that other than SH's statement. TS could have died elsewhere and for reasons unknown, her body was taken back the the house to hide there.

That's where I am so far.

Just my opinion.

I also believe there was someone else (PM?) at the house with SH on Thursday evening and thats when whatever happened to little Tia happened.
In any case, at least one person in the "family" knew very well what had happened to Tia and that she hadn't just gone missing, (so hard to convince myself that the Grandmother didn't know/suspect anything at all), so there was plenty of time to make up stories till Friday when the police were called in - afterall she had only been "late" by an hour or two. And this family do not like the police. Very suspicious... JMO

 

[graceholl]

If NS had some suspected involvement in knowing what had happened, would the police have issued a statement apologising for not discovering the body? I reckon she's clear, at least as far as the police are concerned.

 

[Skigh]

I also believe there was someone else (PM?) at the house with SH on Thursday evening and thats when whatever happened to little Tia happened.
In any case, at least one person in the "family" knew very well what had happened to Tia and that she hadn't just gone missing, (so hard to convince myself that the Grandmother didn't know/suspect anything at all), so there was plenty of time to make up stories till Friday when the police were called in - afterall she had only been "late" by an hour or two. And this family do not like the police. Very suspicious... JMO

If something happened to Tia in the house ,DS I am sure would know of the connecting lofts he would he be checking the whole house if he had the slightest suspicion it could be SH.

If it was just SH and a non family member how would SH know he would have the family support he did get.

If SH put Tia in the loft on his own how on earth would he have a hope of removing it with out any one else in the family knowing.

 

[laserdisc10]

Tia has to go missing from somewhere. The obvious place would be from where the last signals from her mobile were.
If she had been using her mobile on Wednesday evening and then the sim card was removed then that would be the police would start looking.
It is not the actual mobile its self that is the problem but the records it holds
Police tracked Jessica and Holly's mobile signal to Huntleys house but never found Jessica's phone.

Ok, if we go with that for a moment and suppose TS was alive on Wednesday as you've used as example and used her mobile phone -- let's say at NS's house

So then, just for argument's sake, let's say TS died (no need here to speculate how)

Now the killer/s have a body. They don't want to be discovered. So what's to stop them from hopping on a bus or train to somewhere twenty miles distant, at which point they use TS's phone very briefly. It registers with the mobile tower 20K from NS's place

Then, onto another bus or train in another direction - use TS's phone again very briefly and it pings with another mobile tower. By this point, mobile records would register a triangle

Another train or bus that same day or the next - final use of TS's phone then remove the sim, toss the phone in a water-filled ditch. Child missing. Phone has no sim so no pings to any mobile towers and phone isn't discovered for six months and is in any case useless

Meanwhile, body has been removed to waste-land, whatever and is eventually discovered. If police have not discovered evidence in either NS's or CS's places and no other information has come to light - wouldn't the killer/s have a very good chance of evading discovery?

(Ps: just for the record, I've never bought the 'Huntley guilty' story. Don't want to derail the thread or discuss it further - just not prepared to base my sleuthing of the TS case on anything emerging from that previous case. Not persuaded Tabak was anything other than a medicated patsy, either)

 

[MobyBluff]

Newspaper reports are secondary sources, and I do not regard them as accurate records.
But I'm going to leave it there, as only Clio seems to be on my wavelength in this matter.

I am also TOTALLY on your wavelength.

 

[Adorabella]

If NS had some suspected involvement in knowing what had happened, would the police have issued a statement apologising for not discovering the body? I reckon she's clear, at least as far as the police are concerned.

Even if they are all guilty, I think the police would still have to apologise for what they did wrong as a PR exercise. Everyone was wondering how they could possibly have missed finding the body after numerous searches, so something had to be said.

 

[Skigh]

If NS had some suspected involvement in knowing what had happened, would the police have issued a statement apologising for not discovering the body? I reckon she's clear, at least as far as the police are concerned.

Perhaps it is around about way of apologising to the residents on the estate.
If Tia's body was found on the Sunday then they would not have had all their lockups searched-I am sure a few of them had something to conceal .

The police had to continue working on the estate and would not want to deal with any backlash from residents.

Perhaps police wanted other members of the family to feel they were not under suspicion.

 

[MobyBluff]

Regardless, he says he met her at East Croydon, so there must be CCTV proof of that.

Where and when did SH say this? I don't remember this at all.

 

[Skigh]

Ok, if we go with that for a moment and suppose TS was alive on Wednesday as you've used as example and used her mobile phone -- let's say at NS's house

So then, just for argument's sake, let's say TS died (no need here to speculate how)

Now the killer/s have a body. They don't want to be discovered. So what's to stop them from hopping on a bus or train to somewhere twenty miles distant, at which point they use TS's phone very briefly. It registers with the mobile tower 20K from NS's place

Then, onto another bus or train in another direction - use TS's phone again very briefly and it pings with another mobile tower. By this point, mobile records would register a triangle

Another train or bus that same day or the next - final use of TS's phone then remove the sim, toss the phone in a water-filled ditch. Child missing. Phone has no sim so no pings to any mobile towers and phone isn't discovered for six months and is in any case useless

Meanwhile, body has been removed to waste-land, whatever and is eventually discovered. If police have not discovered evidence in either NS's or CS's places and no other information has come to light - wouldn't the killer/s have a very good chance of evading discovery?

(Ps: just for the record, I've never bought the 'Huntley guilty' story. Don't want to derail the thread or discuss it further - just not prepared to base my sleuthing of the TS case on anything emerging from that previous case. Not persuaded Tabak was anything other than a medicated patsy, either)

They would use cctv images to trace those journeys.

 

[Alyce]

I don't use mobile phones so may be incorrect in this, but is it not possible to remove the sim-card from phones, rendering them useless from an investigative point of view, apart from reliance upon 'ping-signals' which indicate when the phone/s last accessed the nearest towers?

If it's possible, the killer/s could have removed the sim, couldn't they, and then tossed the phone anywhere at all. If so, even if the phone was discovered in grass or in a bin in town, it would not (if wiped clean) throw suspicion on the killer/s ?

Same could be done to NS's phone, which could have been explained away to investigators as having been stolen?

But if they destroyed the sim the police would still have the phone providers records which would show the last place/area where the phone was used and last time calls were made from the phone

 

[laserdisc10]

They would use cctv images to trace those journeys.

Wigs. Baseball or other headwear. Dyed hair. Glasses etc

Searching for male? Or female?

Which transport would they elect to scrutinise ? Which routes would they elect to scrutinise ? Why would they elect to pore over public-transport cctv looking for --- whom? On which days/or nights ?

 

[Clio]

I posted, a few pages back, that my thought on this is......... by saying that TS had departed from the house in NA, they ( they being SH and whoever else may or may not have been part of the event ) thought that they were deflecting attention away from the house.
ie, the one place TS couldnt be was in that house, because defintely, positively, she had departed from the house.

Then he/they were very foolish. What's the golden rule in missing person case? Check, check and check again the last place they were seen. Clear the ground under your feet.....

I find it hard to believe he/they could be that stupid. It's not as if he hasn't had any dealings with with the police before. His drug dealing conviction was as a result of a gang and was quite complex I believe. And that was just one of 30 or so.

 

[MobyBluff]

Someone posted earlier that the Police are now saying no single officer to blame.....this article is really making me think....

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...p_body_find_failings_says_met_chief_1_1490956