Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #5

[MassGuy]

This thread is moving so fast it's so hard to keep up but I was wondering, do we think the FBI is involved means they think she may have been transported over state lines?? Isn't that typically when we see the FBI step in? I'm not saying every.single.time. but typically isn't that why FBI gets involved with MP cases?

The FBI can be called in, regardless of if a crime crosses state lines.

They have a particular set of skills and tools, which can prove beneficial here (especially in regards to digital evidence).

They don’t have jurisdiction, and are merely providing assistance.

*Clarity

 

[gitana1]

Leaning toward consensual disappearance right now. Wanted to leave and did.
There is no evidence of foul play that has been shared.
Meeting someone could simply indicate that they left together.
If she did choose to leave, I pray it doesn't end in self harm.
But I don't feel this lady was in a very good mental state.
~~~

What's worrisome is the FBI is apparently now getting involved.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Finally caught up...!

I have tried very hard to read all of the posts but may have missed if these things were mentioned but they are all questions I would be asking her friends/family or our VI @yellowmoose if she can answer.

Did the SW include her apartment?

(You will need to forgive me for asking my next question, because I know that technology is the 'thing' today, but I am sometimes old school and go back to what I did in my early 20's (2o years ago!)
I am wondering if she had a personal calendar (the old fashioned kind with the big squares that you write on) that may have included any past or future meetings or appointments with people and their names. Any doodles with telephone #'s?

Is her passport at home?

Did she have any receipts or credit card transactions for a restaurant that she went to regularly on the same day each week? Can the waitstaff or any friends or schoolmates recall seeing her have lunch or dinner with the same person on a regular basis?

Did she visit her local or school library and study with any one person in particular on a regular basis. Are there any Professors or Teaching Assistants that she saw regularly for help sessions? What types of books did she take out from the library?

Did she mention a desire to travel after school ended to a specific destination?

Had she had any recent fights or disagreements with co-workers, friends or someone at school?

Was she upset about the wedding that just took place this past weekend? Were there going to be any ex-boyfriends or 'frenemies' there that she was dreading seeing?

Just thought I would throw these questions out there and hope that any one of these questions may lead to help finding out the reason why she has disappeared.

I really hope you find your friend yellowmoose.

All JMO and hoping to help by throwing out some new ideas.....

 

[Inthedetails]

If ML phone was indeed powered off at the time she was dropped off at the park. It's easy to come to the conclusion the intent was to stop a digital tracking of her. Just like that.

Right. So far we know:

1. Didn't pick her up from the airport, where there are a million cameras from every angle.

2. Met her at a park where the cameras didn't work (and even if they did work, would they capture car info in detail...I think not, to be honest)

3. Her phone turns off soon after meeting.

4. ML hasn't been seen or heard from since.

I know we are missing sooo much information, but looking at this, sure seems deliberate and planned to me.

jmo

 

[margarita25]

That is your perception of a lifestyle you probably don’t know much about. Considering an expert on the subject has made it clear that this is offbase, why is it still being harped on? There is zero evidence that ML was being paid for anything beyond her time. For all we know she was making crap up in the post saying she had two and never engaged in a contract with a SD at all.

Respectfully, just because someone is verified it doesn’t mean I have to agree with them. I’ve got my qualifications as well. Look at any panel whether it’s cNn, HLN, everyone doesn’t have to agree.

I never said Makenzie was participating in anything, did I? Read my posts.

I have EVeRY right to respond respectfully within TOS to any post. What’s the point of a professional post if nobody can respond? That’s not fair? One person gets to talk?

On any professional panel you are going to have folks talking about different possibilities.

I FIrMLy stand behind my posts and no violation. I’m trying to keep up here.

I don’t get to say I disagree with 70% of stats that these relationships are nonsexual? Or express my concern that young ladies may view this as “normalized”? Etc? Etc?

@poppydarling and I and others are having a fine discussion, thank you very much. We are communicating politely and respectfully.

If there’s no discussion to be had about the nature of these relationships, then don’t allow original posts about it.

Very disappointed, SuperTMo.

I will politely excuse myself from this thread so as to have NOTHING to do with the thread getting shutdown. I haven’t done a darn thing but respond to a post which have every right to do. I’m here from an academic standpoint and LE haaaas mentioned they are investigating the nature of her dating apps, etc.

I’m here for Mackenzie. And FYI may me more liberal than you think.

 

[PommyMommy]

This keeps being asked by myself as well as others, yet I've not seen it answered (or even simply discussed) in media, by LE, or by Kenzie's friends in their interviews or by our VI.

What made alarm bells not go off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday morning when MacKenzie was not around and not heard from?

There is a lot of overlapping not only in relation to the ways that people know MacKenzie but in relation to one another as well.

This isn't a case of "people at school noticed she wasn't in class and her social friends noticed she was unreachable by phone but neither parties overlap, so social friends didn't know she also wasnt in class and classmates didn't know her friends were unable to reach her by phone as well.

Some people know MacKenzie via at LEAST 3 different realms of life: School, Sorority AND friendship. I imagine there is also some additional overlapping with colleagues and/or roommates.

But no one local reported to Campus Police or SLC PD. There has to be a reason for this. Had she had a 3 day unexpected "off the radar" break in the past. Were friends she reportedly had daily contact with unaware of what day she was supposed to fly back? Were friends afraid a missing persons report may be overreacting or jumping the gun for some reason? Did she have set or loose posdible plans to go away after the funeral but was supposed to be back Wed night/Thurs morning?
Was there something about MacKenzie's life or actions the days/weeks prior that lead people to the conclusion that this wasn't actually surprising or as out of character for her as claimed?

ETA: In one interview, (I believe it was her BFF and sorority sister?) She commented that she reached out to MacKenzie offering support or to see if she needed anything over the weekend, while she was still out of state for the funeral. She received no reply. Yet MacKenzie was active on social media during that time? Is that odd: she already wasn't responding to her BFF prior to her disappearance, but was active on social media?

She may have simply told them she was going to her grandmother's funeral but she would be back for her exam(s), ie: no specific date given.

I'm glad you brought this up because I've been meaning to ask... @yellowmoose, please forgive me if this has already been answered but do you know what day her exam(s) were? TIA MOO

 

[PixieStix]

Phew! I went to work this morning and just got all caught up on the 24 pages of reading.

I was hoping for some new news, but it seems there isn't much changed since yesterday apart from the MSM talking about her SM accounts and "dating." This will be my last statement on the SD/SB lifestyle as I do not feel it makes a difference. There seems to be a lot of people that have the mentality that because she was engaging in that it somehow put her at risk for what is happening now. To me, that is victim blaming, and in reality, it is just as easy or common for women to "disappear" or worse be murdered by there spouses and boyfriends which is evident by the many cases where that was the case (Chris Watts for example.) The SD/SB thing seems to be made worse and sensualized by MSM.

The facts are ML met someone in a park at 3 AM. We don't know who or why and regardless of whether that person was associated with that lifestyle at this point is somewhat irrelevant to the extent of whether that put her at risk. That does nothing to help find her. While I do think who she met is the key to finding her and that might mean LE needs to pour through her SM accounts which I am sure she is doing debating whether she was at-risk seems moot at this point. I have a feeling there will be a snowball effect today, and tomorrow once warrants and subpoenas start rolling in, and LE really gets a chance to go deep into her communications and SM accounts. I don't expect to hear much about this though in the next few days because while the focus is finding Kenzie, the other flip side is also potentially building a case so they will need to be very careful what they let out to the media and public.

I am patiently waiting and hoping for the best!

 

[SoCalGirl]

I am with you on this one. The only scenario that I can think of that her phone would turned off like that immediately after she met this person and she is not voluntarily missing, is that once the Lyft driver left and the coast was clear, he/she killed her, turned off her phone, and from there, who knows where he/she went after that.

This is the only way that it makes sense, in a foul play situation.

But LE must think she left the park because they're not searching there at all. So, why was her phone turned off as soon as she got in the car?

 

[Curiousobserver]

FWIW, I'm close to Kenzie's age and travel on Southwest often, and even for short weekend trips I always take a checked bag because it's free and more convenient. You drop your bag off as soon as you get to the airport and then don't worry about it again until you land. You don't have to worry about lugging it around and putting it in the overhead bin, and you can obviously pack more stuff that you might end up needing.

I don't think the size of the bag indicates anything at all.

What MIGHT indicate something is the fact that her phone was turned off immediately upon getting in the car at Hatch Park, with LE implying that it was turned off before it ever left that location. IMO, that's pretty quick for someone to incapacitate Kenzie and/or forcibly take her phone and turn it off.

IMO, this might actually mean that Kenzie turned her phone off willingly for whatever reason -- a pre-arranged agreement of no phones? not wanting friends to see her phone's location in a prominent neighborhood? actually planning to escape reality for a bit?

I'm 99% sure this is wishful thinking on my part, but the phone news seems to be more indicative of a possible runaway situation than the suitcase size, IMO. Sadly, it could also mean that Kenzie didn't stand a chance once she got in that car.

MOO

Given what police have said, it sounds like the best thing that friends can do to help locate Kenzie is to share with police all information they have about her online profiles. Her phone was turned off after she met with someone at the park. That tells us that either Kenzie or the driver wanted to eliminate the digital trail at that moment. My guess is that this was the driver's decision. Assuming that it was the driver, that suggests that the driver was very careful to avoid a digital footprint in all communication with Kenzie.

Did Kenzie mention using any new apps? Did she have a normal routine in terms of switching to a particular app after initial contact with someone? For example, I typically switch to WhatsApp after initial contact. The identity of the person she met is somewhere in her digital world.

If she had an iphone and an ipad or other Apple product, the devices are usually paired, so it's easy to see which apps are downloaded. Do you know whether she had an iphone? That would be too easy, but it might be the only hope of following the digital trail.

And for any of us/you to share the stuff we find (with the police) as well. Some of you are pretty damn good at beating the bushes...

 

[jdog17]

She supposedly got into the car willingly. If the driver intended to harm her (or even if it were in some way accidental), I'm thinking said driver would not immediately attack her. Wouldn't there continue to be some level of trust, at least during the drive? Possibly driver asked her to power it down and she complied. Or, she decided to shut it down herself, for whatever reason. I'm trying not to automatically assume she has been harmed.

I agree, it's all speculation as to why the phone got turned off but even in the most benign scenario - she somehow turns it off out of politeness, or he asked her to turn it off and she does - it's not normal. Why would he ask her to power down her phone? Can you remember once in your life when someone asked you to power down your phone, or when you did it in any circumstance that wasn't a movie, church, dinner, etc? This bit of information is concerning, as it's hard to come up with a plausible reason for the timing.

 

[yellowmoose]

@yellowmoose

In your opinion, would the details of her personal life becoming known to her parents/family have been extremely upsetting or no big deal? If she is voluntarily off the grid, could all these details coming out make her less likely to return? I’m going off the assumption that most of her friends/sisters were at least vaguely aware and accepting of her dating status but perhaps her parents were not?

I think it’s very unlikely this is voluntary but on the off chance she just wanted a few days away, the judgement and accusations being thrown around all over the media could make it very difficult for her to choose to go home.

This is a bit hard to answer because I do not personally know her parents. But what I do know is Kenzie hasn't been active in her family's church or really following their church's standards for living for a long time. And even with that, she still goes home to them. I don't see her continuing to visit them if they were disappointed greatly in her choices. I don't think it is surprising to her parents that she does things they might not necessarily want for her. I'm sure her parents would be concerned for her safety putting herself out there on dating sites and meeting strangers (SD or not, it's always a risk).

But to me she didn't go to great lengths to hide this lifestyle. You can see this pretty easily by her instagram. She didn't have that private account buried. In fact it was linked to her public. So I wouldn't be surprised if her parents were already aware of some of this to a degree. But I don't think it would prevent her from coming home. Sure it would be embarrassing to come back after you life is blasted all over, but I think she values what she has going for her enough here that she would come back still.

 

[otto]

A search warrant on her email provider may be their best hope of finding many of her apps.

Usually you need an email address to sign up for these things.

That's true - an email address, or a phone number. Still, wouldn't it be a bit of a reverse search? Police have to guess which apps she used, get warrants, and then ask the app provider whether they have a user with her email or phone number.

I suppose that's why police are asking about an alternate phone or phone number, as it's still possible that apps are not associated with her known phone number.

Hopefully the Lyft driver has some memory of the type of car at the park, and that CCTV in the area provides some information about the direction of the car.

 

[mfmfan77]

To add, with very little detail other than LE saying the LYFT driver has been cleared, we’re taking that as truth. I have been at least; however, what we know is the LYFT driver was the last person to see ML alive. Supposedly there was this person waiting at the park (I realize ML entered the destination and a park @ 3am is sketch no matter what) but that’s where the story kind of falls apart. Phone turned off. Luggage missing. No cameras capturing this mystery car. I know the park cams were fake but there are cameras everywhere— bus stops, red lights, on the interstate. This didn’t occur during rush hour; ie there were probably less than a dozen cars on the road without a few mile radius during that time frame. Of course all of this is JMO. I want to take “LYFT driver cleared” at face value but nothing, after 8 days, makes sense after she entered that LYFT ‍

I've been starting to wonder more and more about the Lyft story, too. I still don't think it's super likely that the driver is responsible, but the likelihood has been increasing with the recent details (no cameras, phone turned off, no description of the person/vehicle) -- it all makes you hope that LE has done their due diligence before they cleared the driver

 

[SuperTmo]

I imagine that in an established SB/SD relationship, a bond / friendship would develop. I think if that were the case with the person she was meeting, he may have been happy to see her and offer comfort for her loss no matter how she looked. OR......he took the opportunity of having her in a dark park in the middle of the night to harm her in some way.

Agreed, 100%. But my post was in response to someone who said it was likely a first time meet up. The reasons I listed are why I think it was someone she was very comfortable with, and probably not even an SD at all.

 

[SoCalGirl]

The reason I wondered about someone calling in for her was because of another missing person's case (Kierra Coles in Chicago). Kierra supposedly called in sick the day she disappeared, but it was later determined that it was probably not Kierra who called in because she worked for USPS and they apparently have an automated system where employees just enter their employee ID or something similar in the system and they don't actually have to talk to a live person or to their manager.

Obviously, I have no idea if the lab where Kenzie works requires voice contact with an actual person or if an email could be sent or something similar.

As far as we know, she didn't call in sick to work, just never showed up.

 

[Birmingplumb]

To add, with very little detail other than LE saying the LYFT driver has been cleared, we’re taking that as truth. I have been at least; however, what we know is the LYFT driver was the last person to see ML alive. Supposedly there was this person waiting at the park (I realize ML entered the destination and a park @ 3am is sketch no matter what) but that’s where the story kind of falls apart. Phone turned off. Luggage missing. No cameras capturing this mystery car. I know the park cams were fake but there are cameras everywhere— bus stops, red lights, on the interstate. This didn’t occur during rush hour; ie there were probably less than a dozen cars on the road without a few mile radius during that time frame. Of course all of this is JMO. I want to take “LYFT driver cleared” at face value but nothing, after 8 days, makes sense after she entered that LYFT ‍

I am all in on the driver. He could have texted ( on burner) accomplice "park" and instead of taking her to south end took her at setup north end of park, leaving sugar daddy out of picture. I say lie detector test .

 

[gipsypup]

Snipped


ML's mom or dad just lost a mom. They are a family in mourning already. Grief can be very heavy - you never know how people will react to it. Then, there is all the work of dealing with someone's estate, possessions, etc. Dealing with a death is WORK and it's not an easy time.

Right after burying a mother, ML's parent's find out their daughter is missing. They are now dealing with two tragedies.

Then, they find their beloved daughter's most intimate details are splashed all over the internet.

Then people wonder if their public presence isn't enough.

jmo

As a parent of two college age daughters, sorry but I would be in Utah in a heart beat. Wouldn't care about my job or anything and I'd be all over the media outlets . Maybe LE is telling them to stay in CA for some reason? Or the parents have more information or a better idea of where she may be and why? JMO.
I don't remember where I saw or heard that:
1) the parents aren't traveling to UT because they think she is not there
2) while she was in CA for the funeral the dad said she was texting someone new.
Maybe someone can find where this info was posted or discussed in MSM. ty!

 

[jdog17]

FWIW, I'm close to Kenzie's age and travel on Southwest often, and even for short weekend trips I always take a checked bag because it's free and more convenient. You drop your bag off as soon as you get to the airport and then don't worry about it again until you land. You don't have to worry about lugging it around and putting it in the overhead bin, and you can obviously pack more stuff that you might end up needing.

I don't think the size of the bag indicates anything at all.

What MIGHT indicate something is the fact that her phone was turned off immediately upon getting in the car at Hatch Park, with LE implying that it was turned off before it ever left that location. IMO, that's pretty quick for someone to incapacitate Kenzie and/or forcibly take her phone and turn it off.

IMO, this might actually mean that Kenzie turned her phone off willingly for whatever reason -- a pre-arranged agreement of no phones? not wanting friends to see her phone's location in a prominent neighborhood? actually planning to escape reality for a bit?

I'm 99% sure this is wishful thinking on my part, but the phone news seems to be more indicative of a possible runaway situation than the suitcase size, IMO. Sadly, it could also mean that Kenzie didn't stand a chance once she got in that car.

MOO

Good point -- she could have turned it off because she didn't want anyone else to know where she was. This is somewhat reassuring and seems possible.

 

[Inthedetails]

If as we are led to believe (by the Lyft driver) there was some familiarity with whom she met. Why didn't they arrange to pick her up from the airport?

I don't think we can assume familiarity. I think the description was she seemed happy to see the person, not that the person was a familiar person.

I happen to still think it was a first-time encounter, fwiw. I think they met online either that night or within the past few days but had never met in person. Total hunch and subject to abrupt change at any moment. He think he lured her for a specific reason that wasn't pampering.

jmo

 

[gingerbread]

This keeps being asked by myself as well as others, yet I've not seen it answered (or even simply discussed) in media, by LE, or by Kenzie's friends in their interviews or by our VI.

What made alarm bells not go off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday morning when MacKenzie was not around and not heard from?

There is a lot of overlapping not only in relation to the ways that people know MacKenzie but in relation to one another as well.

This isn't a case of "people at school noticed she wasn't in class and her social friends noticed she was unreachable by phone but neither parties overlap, so social friends didn't know she also wasnt in class and classmates didn't know her friends were unable to reach her by phone as well.

Some people know MacKenzie via at LEAST 3 different realms of life: School, Sorority AND friendship. I imagine there is also some additional overlapping with colleagues and/or roommates.

But no one local reported to Campus Police or SLC PD. There has to be a reason for this. Had she had a 3 day unexpected "off the radar" break in the past. Were friends she reportedly had daily contact with unaware of what day she was supposed to fly back? Were friends afraid a missing persons report may be overreacting or jumping the gun for some reason? Did she have set or loose posdible plans to go away after the funeral but was supposed to be back Wed night/Thurs morning?
Was there something about MacKenzie's life or actions the days/weeks prior that lead people to the conclusion that this wasn't actually surprising or as out of character for her as claimed?

ETA: In one interview, (I believe it was her BFF and sorority sister?) She commented that she reached out to MacKenzie offering support or to see if she needed anything over the weekend, while she was still out of state for the funeral. She received no reply. Yet MacKenzie was active on social media during that time? Is that odd?

I don’t know what kind of phone she had, but based on her friend’s interview that she kept checking her location to see if it would miraculously pop up, can it be assumed she has an iPhone? iPhone messages to other iPhones are in blue and show as “Delivered”. If texts repeatedly were being shown as “Sent as Text Message”, the phone is either without a signal, or off. I wonder if her friends were trying to give her some space to grieve. Her disappearance is like the “perfect storm” with all that has happened - no cameras, no phone activity, no description of person and/or vehicle, etc. It’s incredibly scary.