GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #2

[popsicle]

Did Rachel have her own medical insurance or was she somehow covered under Martin's? If she was covered under Martin's then he would have access to her medical files and since it has been made clear that he cares more about saving his own rear end instead of the well being of his children, then I could see him giving that information to his defense team to use against Rachel.

MOO

No she has to sign a waiver for medical info to be passed to him.

 

[seattlechiquita]

While I agree that Alexis may have influenced Ada, the truth is that children often recall troubling events as time progresses. A young child has a built-in protection against very troubling recollections which may return over time as the child (and psyche) matures.

Case in point is Elizabeth Smart's young sister. She was unable to describe the man who kidnapped her sister until several months after the event occurred.

While the judge cited a great deal of prior case law, I think he seriously erred in his conclusion. If Ada's direct testimony is inaccurate, it should be impugned during the trial thru redirect.

Another incredibly horrifying case that proves this was when Susan Powell's children started recalling "mom was in the trunk". Their "father" murdered them weeks after their recollections began

 

[TorisMom003]

No she has to sign a waiver for medical info to be passed to him.

She would have to sign a waiver only once, correct? And she could have done that years before when they were still on good terms. Also, if she were on his policy then he would get the EOBs sent to his address.

 

[Zuri]

I am also confused. IMO, defense brought up the ER visit to make Rachel look crazy. DA did not even read the real dx. I used to code medical records. Delusions can be drug induced. I would think if the DA wanted to bring in that ER visit, they would have the ER doc. testify. The questioning made me mad.

Zuri, you are a nurse aren't you? So you would know what I am talking about.

Yes I have been an RN for over 30 years working critical care, mostly ER. For example, When my son was treated in the ER where I worked, knew all the docs, etc, they would not tell me why he had been seen nor any other info. Only that he had been there. He was 18 at the time. This is the norm. No info is given out unless it is on the HIPAA form that you are allowed to talk to the treating physicians.

So either Rachel gave permission, or if that info was given as hearsay by someone else and the defense followed up on it, the breach of confidentiality by the ER physician would be grounds for a huge lawsuit. The way I understood it yesterday is very alarming. Again, I am probably misunderstanding something.

 

[popsicle]

Rachel self-reported delusions and psychosis. It was stated she went to the ER with her father iirc. I do not think the def has Rachel's medical files... jmo

 

[Ina Cognito]

You guys are bringing up very valid points

 

[popsicle]

She would have to sign a waiver only once, correct? And she could have done that years before when they were still on good terms. Also, if she were on his policy then he would get the EOBs sent to his address.

For each doctors office/hospital that treats her.

 

[Ina Cognito]

Rachel self-reported delusions and psychosis. It was stated she went to the ER with her father iirc. I do not think the def has Rachel's medical files... jmo

I could be wrong but I believe the defense had the medical report from that ER visit. They referenced it multiple times.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

There was a motion about her medical records from the defense, I think... Don't know what came from it. It's on the WAT site, IIRC.

 

[TorisMom003]

Another thought, since Martin was Michele's "doctor" was he also considered the children's "doctor"? If so then he would be able to call any other doctor or hospital to get medical information on Michele or any of the children?

 

[popsicle]

I could be wrong but I believe the defense had the medical report from that ER visit. They referenced it multiple times.

I think she looked at her papers and made it appear she had the records, hoping Rachel would say something good. jmo

 

[Leilei]

She would have to sign a waiver only once, correct? And she could have done that years before when they were still on good terms. Also, if she were on his policy then he would get the EOBs sent to his address.

I have had to sign medical information releases for my own health issues, for disability insurance and FMLA. The releases that I signed required that I write down a beginning and ending date, and state the reason why I was granting permission for the release. I suppose that you could put down an open-ended date in some cases?

That whole line of questioning yesterday was super uncomfortable. I think I'm most upset that the DA was insinuating that all bipolar folks suffer from delusions and paranoia... not the case at all. Plus, delusions and paranoia are symptoms, not a diagnosis, IMO.

 

[Ina Cognito]

This is why toxicology tests take so long, they send them to this guy lol

 

[popsicle]

Another thought, since Martin was Michele's "doctor" was he also considered the children's "doctor"? If so then he would be able to call any other doctor or hospital to get medical information on Michele or any of the children?

I am not so sure. Medical personnel cannot give out info on a patient without that patient's permission, unless the dr requesting is treating the patient. I am not sure he can just get hospital records because he claims to be her dr. idk

 

[TorisMom003]

This is why toxicology tests take so long they send them to this guy lol

One plus for me with this man's testimony........the blonde defense lawyer and Martin both look completely bored listening to him. It also makes it clear to Martin that he is NOT the smartest man in the room.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

Just tuning in. Still reading posts.

I think that was actually a great ruling by the judge on Ada's testimony. A perfect way to handle it.

What witness are we on?

 

[TorisMom003]

Just tuning in. Still reading posts.

I think that was actually a great ruling by the judge on Ada's testimony. A perfect way to handle it.

What witness are we on?

Toxicology expert

 

[TorisMom003]

I am not so sure. Medical personnel cannot give out info on a patient without that patient's permission, unless the dr requesting is treating the patient. I am not sure he can just get hospital records because he claims to be her dr. idk

With Martin's history of fraud it would not surprise me in the least to find out that he had notified the hospital that he was Rachel's doctor and needed the information so that he could use it to his own benefit during his trial or as blackmail, depending on which would better help him.

MOO

 

[Zuri]

I have had to sign medical information releases for my own health issues, for disability insurance and FMLA. The releases that I signed required that I write down a beginning and ending date, and state the reason why I was granting permission for the release. I suppose that you could put down an open-ended date in some cases?

That whole line of questioning yesterday was super uncomfortable. I think I'm most upset that the DA was insinuating that all bipolar folks suffer from delusions and paranoia... not the case at all. Plus, delusions and paranoia are symptoms, not a diagnosis, IMO.

My husband is a physician. He treats a number of our friends. Unless they tell me they saw my husband and for what, I have no clue they were even there or the reason why. That is how it should be. My best friend had a cancer work up and I had no clue. I found out 2 years later when she mentioned it to me. My husband was her referring physician and had all the reports and spoke to all her doctors. No clue.

Although Martin MacNeill is a physician, he is bound by the same ethics my husband is. That info is off limits. Rachel's medical records were IMO off limits just as your and mine should be. MacNeill is a . And yes, that is my personal and professional opinion....

 

[minor4th]

Another incredibly horrifying case that proves this was when Susan Powell's children started recalling "mom was in the trunk". Their "father" murdered them weeks after their recollections began

The Powell children started talking about and drawing "mom in the trunk" very soon after she went missing, I believe. It just wasn't made public until much later