VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[Salah11]

The FBI and police can be wrong about things. If they were 100% correct about everything, forums like this would not exist.

There was obviously no evidence she fell overboard and considering she was a great swimmer and the boat was docked then the likelihood was low. Thats before you add in the weird behavior of the crew on board.

 

[benowens]

There was obviously no evidence she fell overboard and considering she was a great swimmer and the boat was docked then the likelihood was low. Thats before you add in the weird behavior of the crew on board.

-No evidence she fell overboard does not equal evidence that she didn't
-Great swimmers can still drown. IIRC some Olympic swimmers have died from drowning
-Docks are far from foolproof
-People act weirdly all the time

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

People have been know to fall overboard on boats though. Planes are made so they don't crash, schools are not designed to be shot up, houses are built so they don't burn down, but these things still happen regardless.

Most people who fall overboard are either jumping or engaging in reckless behavior that causes them to fall. Ships are designed so that passengers who are doing all the right things don't just "fall" into the ocean.

My perspective is that the FBI knows more than we do, has access to information/witnesses we don't, has a lot more experience than most of us do, and they do not believe she fell overboard. Therefore, I do not believe she fell overboard.

MOO

 

[benowens]

Most people who fall overboard are either jumping or engaging in reckless behavior that causes them to fall. Ships are designed so that passengers who are doing all the right things don't just "fall" into the ocean.

My perspective is that the FBI knows more than we do, has access to information/witnesses we don't, has a lot more experience than most of us do, and they do not believe she fell overboard. Therefore, I do not believe she fell overboard.

MOO

Sounds pretty convincing TBH. Maybe she was accidentally pushed overboard? I think that would sound more reasonable than sex trafficking or the idea that she was intentionally pushed.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The FBI and police can be wrong about things. If they were 100% correct about everything, forums like this would not exist.

Of course, but IMO, they're a lot more conservative about calling something a crime unless they're sure. How often have we seen "no threat to the community" only for it to turn out to be a threat to the community or "no indication of foul play" only to later discover the person was murdered?

The reverse is very rare, IMO. I think they must be pretty sure something happened to this woman to be adamant about it for this long.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

-No evidence she fell overboard does not equal evidence that she didn't
-Great swimmers can still drown. IIRC some Olympic swimmers have died from drowning
-Docks are far from foolproof
-People act weirdly all the time

By the same token, no evidence she was abducted does not equal evidence she wasn't.

MOO

 

[benowens]

Of course, but IMO, they're a lot more conservative about calling something a crime unless they're sure. How often have we seen "no threat to the community" only for it to turn out to be a threat to the community or "no indication of foul play" only to later discover the person was murdered?

The reverse is very rare, IMO. I think they must be pretty sure something happened to this woman to be adamant about it for this long.

I feel as if the reverse is more common though. Most cases with no indication of foul play that I have followed or researched end with the police being proven right.

A few cases of the reverse (or at least where the reverse is highly suspected) include Ben Needham, William Tyrrell, Azaria Chamberlain, among others.

 

[benowens]

By the same token, no evidence she was abducted does not equal evidence she wasn't.

MOO

That is true.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I feel as if the reverse is more common though. Most cases with no indication of foul play that I have followed or researched end with the police being proven right.

Right, the police are proven right. That's kind of my point. The police don't say "there IS indication of foul play" unless they know there is. Usually, it's "no indication of foul play." so for them to say there IS indication in Amy's case makes me think there is.

A few cases of the reverse (or at least where the reverse is highly suspected) include Ben Needham, William Tyrrell, Azaria Chamberlain, among others.

We can't take cases that are unsolved and use them to support the hypothesis that LE is wrong. That's only speculation and not fact and really falls into confirmation bias.

MOO.

 

[benowens]

Right, the police are proven right. That's kind of my point. The police don't say "there IS indication of foul play" unless they know there is. Usually, it's "no indication of foul play." so for them to say there IS indication in Amy's case makes me think there is.



We can't take cases that are unsolved and use them to support the hypothesis that LE is wrong. That's only speculation and not fact and really falls into confirmation bias.

MOO.

Again I kinda agree with your points made here. However, what I said does not prove your point as I clearly stated that I was specifically referring to cases with no indication of foul play.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I have always found the chin and cheek bones so similar in these two photos. I have always believed Amy was a victim of sex trafficing. JMO

 

[branmuffin]

I've come back to this case because there are certain things that bother me about the narrative provided by the family and because there are important gaps in the information provided. For starters, I think it's really odd that we don't know what deck the Bradley family were on. (If someone can provide that information I'd appreciate it.) We don't know what cabin or deck they were on, starboard or port, or whether the kids, Brad and Amy were in a separate cabin or if the family were lucky enough to have a superior stateroom that had separate bedrooms from the main living area.

As of today, there is one Royal suite 8500 that has one separate bedroom with a king size bed and a separate living room. It's huge. I count out the Royal Suite because the narrative of the father mentions seeing Amy's legs as she lay on a chaise on the balcony but makes no mention whatsoever of Brad and where he is. There is an ocean view two bedroom suite but that's discounted because even though it is the second largest stateroom on the ship, it has no balcony. There are four Grand Family Suites on the Rhapsody that have two bedrooms, one with a king sized bed and another bedroom with two twins that can be made up as a queen sized bed. It also has two pullman berths for additional passengers. All four staterooms are mid-ship on Decks 7 and 8, one above the other. There's also an Owner's suite, again it has one bedroom and a living area with a couch that could be converted to a queen bed. My experience is that couches aren't usually able to be converted to two twins, only doubles. So I've crossed this type of stateroom off my list because I doubt (hope) that Brad and Amy didn't have to share a bed. Here is the link I used to the deck plans for the RH.

https://www.icruise.com/cabins/royal-caribbean-cruises-rhapsody-of-the-seas-cabin-8000.html

I presume with the ship being over 25 years old it's gone in several times for refurbishment and the rooms listed above did not exist at the time of the Bradley family's sailing and that their family cabin was actually two staterooms with a door between them. Usually the decks still have a partition but it's possible the family asked the partition to be taken down to enlarge the balcony space. Being an earlier ship, the ratio of cabins with decks compared to ocean view was quite small. If this has already been verified I'd appreciate someone letting me know.

 

[Mica]

I've come back to this case because there are certain things that bother me about the narrative provided by the family and because there are important gaps in the information provided. For starters, I think it's really odd that we don't know what deck the Bradley family were on. (If someone can provide that information I'd appreciate it.) We don't know what cabin or deck they were on, starboard or port, or whether the kids, Brad and Amy were in a separate cabin or if the family were lucky enough to have a superior stateroom that had separate bedrooms from the main living area.

As of today, there is one Royal suite 8500 that has one separate bedroom with a king size bed and a separate living room. It's huge. I count out the Royal Suite because the narrative of the father mentions seeing Amy's legs as she lay on a chaise on the balcony but makes no mention whatsoever of Brad and where he is. There is an ocean view two bedroom suite but that's discounted because even though it is the second largest stateroom on the ship, it has no balcony. There are four Grand Family Suites on the Rhapsody that have two bedrooms, one with a king sized bed and another bedroom with two twins that can be made up as a queen sized bed. It also has two pullman berths for additional passengers. All four staterooms are mid-ship on Decks 7 and 8, one above the other. There's also an Owner's suite, again it has one bedroom and a living area with a couch that could be converted to a queen bed. My experience is that couches aren't usually able to be converted to two twins, only doubles. So I've crossed this type of stateroom off my list because I doubt (hope) that Brad and Amy didn't have to share a bed. Here is the link I used to the deck plans for the RH.

https://www.icruise.com/cabins/royal-caribbean-cruises-rhapsody-of-the-seas-cabin-8000.html

I presume with the ship being over 25 years old it's gone in several times for refurbishment and the rooms listed above did not exist at the time of the Bradley family's sailing and that their family cabin was actually two staterooms with a door between them. Usually the decks still have a partition but it's possible the family asked the partition to be taken down to enlarge the balcony space. Being an earlier ship, the ratio of cabins with decks compared to ocean view was quite small. If this has already been verified I'd appreciate someone letting me know.

Deck 8, Cabin 8564, which is midship starboard..

[…]

On March 24, 1998, while on vacation with her mother, father and brother Brad, Amy Bradley vanished from the Royal Caribbean cruise ship Rhapsody of the Seas, which was preparing to dock in Curacao. Her father, Ron Bradley, was the last to see her as she sat on a deck chair on the balcony of cabin No. 8564, the family’s stateroom, at about 5:30 that morning.

Richmond.com / Amy Interrupted

Amy Interrupted - Amy Bradley disappeared from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship on March 24, 1998. Believing she’s been abducted, her family refuses to give up the search.

web.archive.org

 

[Mica]

Amy and Brad slept on the pullout sofa.

[…]

Finally, Brad opened the patio door and rolled into the sofa bed he was sharing with Amy during the trip. (Part 2 from my previous link)

https://m.icruise.com/cabins/royal-caribbean-cruises-rhapsody-of-the-seas-cabin-8564.html

 

[Salah11]

-No evidence she fell overboard does not equal evidence that she didn't
-Great swimmers can still drown. IIRC some Olympic swimmers have died from drowning
-Docks are far from foolproof
-People act weirdly all the time

She had a fear of heights so I don’t believe she went near that railing that morning.

Also if it was that easy to fall off a ship drunk then it would happen every day on cruises and clearly it doesn’t. You don’t simply fall off a ship into water without a trace. The railing would have been chest height so unless she deliberately climbed up onto the railing and with her fear of heights she wouldn’t have done that.

They were right off the shore of Curacao, not in the middle of the ocean so lack of a body also points to not falling in.


MOO

 

[fridaybaker]

Thanks Mica. I feel like we go over and over the same info on this thread!

 

[branmuffin]

Deck 8, Cabin 8564, which is midship starboard..

[…]

On March 24, 1998, while on vacation with her mother, father and brother Brad, Amy Bradley vanished from the Royal Caribbean cruise ship Rhapsody of the Seas, which was preparing to dock in Curacao. Her father, Ron Bradley, was the last to see her as she sat on a deck chair on the balcony of cabin No. 8564, the family’s stateroom, at about 5:30 that morning.

Richmond.com / Amy Interrupted

Amy Interrupted - Amy Bradley disappeared from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship on March 24, 1998. Believing she’s been abducted, her family refuses to give up the search.

web.archive.org

Thanks! I knew someone would be able to provide the info. That's just a regular cabin. I can't imagine 4 adults having to negotiate that space. And especially two grown children have to share a bed. Seems kind of icky to me.

 

[loveplace]

Thanks! I knew someone would be able to provide the info. That's just a regular cabin. I can't imagine 4 adults having to negotiate that space. And especially two grown children have to share a bed. Seems kind of icky to me.

I think it would depend very much on your sibling relationship whether or not it is actually "Icky". I have five siblings-- two of them I would happily share a bed with on vacation and the other 3? No thanks. I don't think we know enough about their relationship to judge the sleeping arrangements. Since they were both grown it's unlikely they "had" to share a bed and more likely that they were involved in the trip planning and were okay with it or they wouldn't have gone along in my opinion.

 

[branmuffin]

Amy and Brad slept on the pullout sofa.

[…]

Finally, Brad opened the patio door and rolled into the sofa bed he was sharing with Amy during the trip. (Part 2 from my previous link)

https://m.icruise.com/cabins/royal-caribbean-cruises-rhapsody-of-the-seas-cabin-8564.html

Nowhere in this account is the narrative that I've read; must be from a different report, is that Brad said Amy went up to the balcony deck to take pictures of the colourful houses that line the canal. It's very difficult to get an accurate timeline of what really happened that day/night because facts are interspersed with opinion, blank spaces and and accusations as to what happened to Amy.

The briefest timeline after some minor drama in the disco with Brad being confronted by another passenger for dancing with the guy's wife, seems to be:
1:00 am Amy was seen dancing with Alister Douglas aka Yellow, video taken by fellow passenger
3:35 am Brad's keycard recorded him entering the cabin. I presume both parents were in the cabin. Brad would have to walk by the bed his parents were sleeping in to get to the pull out couch.
3:40 am a keycard opened the door again and Amy entered. She also would have to walk by the bed her parents were in. Amy and Brad went out to the balcony and talked for a while. Brad went in and went to bed. There is an assumption that Amy stayed out on the balcony for an unknown period of time. There is an assumption that she fell asleep out there. Any narrative as to what Amy did after Brad went to bed is not verified with facts. Especially considering that many ships and hotels, only record key card entrances into a cabin or hotel room. They do not record when the door opens from the inside. A door could be open for someone to leave. Or letting someone else in. Or accepting a delivery from room service, etc.
5:15-5:30 am Ron got up to check on the status of the children. He mentions nothing about Brad but does say he saw Amy's legs through the balcony windows and assumed she slept out there and went back to sleep.

The timelines between 5:15 and 6:am are a little murky, imo. but there are reports that Ron got up around 6:00 am and found Amy missing from the cabin. Her camera, cigarettes and lighter were gone and she had left a yellow polo shirt behind. No mention of whether any other clothing was missing. Again no mention of Brad.
5:30-5:45 am Eyewitnesses testified to a Grand Jury that they saw Amy on the upper deck with "Yellow". At this time the RH had not docked. It had just gone under the Queen Juliana Bridge. The ship was docked, after having to back in to her allocated slip, by 6:am.

My problem with this narrative of Amy going up to the balcony deck to take pictures is this: Curacao because it is so close to the equator has more equal daylight and nighttime than it does in the northern hemisphere. Where I live in Ontario on March 24, 1998 sunrise was at 6:14 am. In Curacao on March 24, 1998 sunrise was 6:38 am nearly half an hour later. Not a good time to take pictures from the deck. It would have been dark when Amy was seen at 5:30 am on the balcony with Yellow so I think it's possible that the eyewitness was mistaken. I would have more comfort if the eyewitness report mentioned how close they were to the couple, whether they could identify what either of them were wearing and most importantly what the demeanor of both of them was. Were they arguing, laughing, what about body language suggestion?

And as cold blooded as it seems to many that the captain refused to halt passengers from leaving the ship try to put it in perspective. If you were in a hotel that had approx 2500 guests on the day you were leaving to catch a flight, or a bus, or a train, or going to an important meeting, or a wedding or a funeral, etc. how would you feel about being told no one was going anywhere until the hotel found someone who closed the bar the night before? That's basically what that request was.

 

[Bibi55]

Just because a passenger said she saw Amy with a bass band player on another deck does not make it so. So called eye-witness testimony is wrong at least half the time. She may believe she saw Amy or she actually may have seen Amy but I don't trust that she actually did see Amy. we hear about missing persons all the time, and people think they see that person all over the country-- when in fact that person is dead. I would like to think Amy is alive but I don't believe she is.

Well the witness said she was positive it was her and she was with Yellow