VA - Bethany Stephens, 21, mauled to death by her 2 dogs, Dec 2017

[LadyL]

how many of those 'statistics' were raised to fight, were born into abuse?
your stats don't specify that
I'm not going to tear you or anyone apart
everyone reading this thread already knows the truth but fear motivates these bans
chihuahuas are by far the most aggressive breed but because they're small, they don't do as much damage
did you want to ban chihuahuas too?

I thought I would get torn apart for my opinion if I posted it here, but it looks like most people here agree with me.

Pit bulls are dangerous. They just are.

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php

"34 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2015. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 82% (28) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6.6% of the total U.S. dog population."

This is not normal, for a dog to be so violent. Rottweilers are also violent (the 2nd most violent, after pit bulls), statistically, but there are more rottweilers than pit bulls in the US and they still kill less than pit bulls. So while I definitely would not own one, I would trust a rottweiler way more than a pit bull.

Pit bulls were bred to kill. People say "Well, it's all in how you raise them!" This has been shown time and time again to be false. Pit bulls raised by perfectly nice, normal owners snap and kill them in an instant.

 

[LadyL]

“In the 70s they blamed Dobermans, in the 80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the 90s they blamed Rottweilers. Now they blame the Pit Bull. When will they blame the humans?” Cesar Millan

 

[Jax49]

how many of those 'statistics' were raised to fight, were born into abuse?
your stats don't specify that
I'm not going to tear you or anyone apart
everyone reading this thread already knows the truth but fear motivates these bans
chihuahuas are by far the most aggressive breed but because they're small, they don't do as much damage
did you want to ban chihuahuas too?

Chihuahuas don't kill adult humans...

moo

 

[Jennifer17]

Any dog will nip or bite out of fear or as a warning, but some breeds of dogs attack, not just bite.

 

[paris_paris]

Any breed is capable of attacking someone, the thing is is that the media love to report these incidents when they involve pits, rotties and other large breeds. My 15 pound rat terrier went after my 8 year old grandson and needed I don't remember how many stitches on his face, I later found out that my grandson provoked her because he kept poking her face, she snarled at him with a warning and he kept doing it anyway. I also worked at our county's humane society for years and I feared of being hurt by most of the smaller breeds than anything. I've only read one article about Bethany and haven't come to my own conclusion of what I think happened but anything is possible.

You're blaming your grandson?

 

[lonetraveler]

May be right about the breed. Although from images it looks like a pit.

Snip
whom Agnew described as petite, 5-foot-1 and 125 pounds

Agnew said it took deputies hours to wrangle the dogs, which he estimated each weighed as much as Stephens.


http://www.richmond.com/news/local/...cle_ca98bbc2-3676-5121-b337-cdcfbc875293.html

Male 15.8–27.2 kg (35–60 lb)
Female 13.6–22.6 kg (30–50 lb)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier


Males have a standard desirable height range of 23 to 26 inches (58 to 66 cm)[5] at the withers, with a minimum weight at maturity of 100 pounds (45 kg)[5] and a maximum weight of 65 kilograms (143 lb).[4] Females have a standard desirable height between 22 to 25 inches (56 to 64 cm)[5] at the withers, with a minimum weight at maturity of 85 pounds (39 kg)[5] and a maximum weight of 120 pounds (55 kg).[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perro_de_Presa_Canario

These dogs were way too large to be pit bulls. Pitt Bulls are usually about 50 lbs. max. However, American Bull Dogs who resemble Pitt bulls but are much, much larger, around 125lbs. to 140 lbs. are also used for fighting and have similar behavior traits. This woman's wounds as well as the clothing torn from her body totally resemble an attack from her dogs, Unfortunately, the dogs are usually totally loving, tame and gentle dogs until they aren't. No warning, no signs up until the attack. Very unpredictable and can be just as loving, gentle after the attack as before. It is very common for the dogs to aggressively protect their kill afterwards. I feel so bad for the family and loved ones.

Another case this week involved a pittbull.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/12/11/woman-77-mauled-to-death-by-dog-in-alsip/amp/

 

[lonetraveler]

“In the 70s they blamed Dobermans, in the 80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the 90s they blamed Rottweilers. Now they blame the Pit Bull. When will they blame the humans?” Cesar Millan

I really can't see where there is any mystery as to who attacked this defenseless woman and tore her throat out. It is clearly the dogs who did this. Ie., dogs who were loved and petted and who slept with the victim every night in her bed. No abused animals here. I think it is time that people actually just see the truth for the truth. I've been an animal lover for my entire life and have advocated for dogs but it is what it is and eventually people just have to accept the truth for what it is.

 

[bears10]

“In the 70s they blamed Dobermans, in the 80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the 90s they blamed Rottweilers. Now they blame the Pit Bull. When will they blame the humans?” Cesar Millan

Are you saying the young woman in this case is to blame? By all accounts she was a loving owner and experienced with animals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lonetraveler]

May be right about the breed. Although from images it looks like a pit.

Snip
whom Agnew described as petite, 5-foot-1 and 125 pounds

Agnew said it took deputies hours to wrangle the dogs, which he estimated each weighed as much as Stephens.


http://www.richmond.com/news/local/...cle_ca98bbc2-3676-5121-b337-cdcfbc875293.html

Male 15.8–27.2 kg (35–60 lb)
Female 13.6–22.6 kg (30–50 lb)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier


Males have a standard desirable height range of 23 to 26 inches (58 to 66 cm)[5] at the withers, with a minimum weight at maturity of 100 pounds (45 kg)[5] and a maximum weight of 65 kilograms (143 lb).[4] Females have a standard desirable height between 22 to 25 inches (56 to 64 cm)[5] at the withers, with a minimum weight at maturity of 85 pounds (39 kg)[5] and a maximum weight of 120 pounds (55 kg).[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perro_de_Presa_Canario

These dogs were way too large to be pit bulls. Pitt Bulls are usually about 50 lbs. max. However, American Bull Dogs who resemble Pitt bulls but are much, much larger, around 125lbs. to 140 lbs. are also used for fighting and have similar behavior traits. This woman's wounds as well as the clothing torn from her body totally resemble an attack from her dogs, Unfortunately, the dogs are usually totally loving, tame and gentle dogs until they aren't. No warning, no signs up until the attack. Very unpredictable and can be just as loving, gentle after the attack as before. It is very common for the dogs to aggressively protect their kill afterwards. I feel so bad for the family and loved ones.

 

[Springrain]

how many of those 'statistics' were raised to fight, were born into abuse?
your stats don't specify that
I'm not going to tear you or anyone apart
everyone reading this thread already knows the truth but fear motivates these bans
chihuahuas are by far the most aggressive breed but because they're small, they don't do as much damage
did you want to ban chihuahuas too?

Look at the stories of the victims in the links I've posted. Lots of them were attacked randomly by dogs unknown to them. A fair amount of victims had owned the dog for an extended period of time, with the dog seeming normal before it killed them. This link: https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php has all the people who died as a result of dog attacks in 2015. Check "Relationship to dog" and "owner of dog". If a dog is killing random people, there's an issue.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Ok crazy thought here but what if.....

The person giving the now deceased death threats was her former lover or partner....and....

Wanted the dogs to maul her so they brought clothing with her sent and got the dogs trained and rewarded to rip her stuff apart. Maybe that’s why their cages were so mangled? Trained in their cages to attack her stuff while the perpetrator got them into a frenzy & finished his/her sessions by rewarding them with a big steak? Murder via canine?

Maybe the property is very rural & Dad didn’t notice anything?

Moo

 

[ttcRider]

...its like when people describe the guy next door after he's murdered a bunch of people. He was such a nice guy, quiet, kept to himself. He must have snapped. Well, maybe, just maybe the dogs snapped.

 

[proudfootz]

In my experience with breeds and aggression. Bully breeds are not any more aggressive than other breeds. In fact chihuahua's win that title. They get coddled and end up being growly and snappy...and then of course end up breaking the skin on bites.

One of the first thing we change in a home with an aggression incident or a dog that just doesn't listen to the client is to get the dog out of the bed and off the furniture. Sometimes doing just that solves and issue. The dog is clearly equal to us in his mind if he is sleeping with us and on our furniture. It said in the article that the dogs were sleeping in the bed with her. So there is that. Although one article did say she worked at a training center and knew dogs well.

There does seem to be details about waiting a day to look for her, the kennels being pried open and death threats that certainly need to be answered.

I am so sad for her, it must have been horribly violent.

BBM

The only dog bite I got that broke the skin was from some kind of chihuahua.

I owned a large dog that looked like it might have some pit bull in his ancestry, and if he was as aggressive as the little dog you'd have read about me being eaten by my dog.

Because he was big and strong I took special care to keep him under control on a leash at all times. Other dogs often seemed to have a problem with him - perhaps it was his body language. But lots of owners in my town let their dogs run around loose in the neighborhood, and these dogs would charge me and my dog and it was always up to me to prevent a fight since these other folks had zero control of their animals.

Once at a dog park a gang of other dogs piled on to my dog and the other owners did nothing to try and stop it. I (perhaps stupidly) waded into the fight to get my dog out before he was seriously injured. Maybe I'm lucky I wasn't bitten, though I was yelled at by the owners of the dog pack that targeted my dog. But I know that if the authorities got involved my dog would be blamed because of the way he looked rather than what happened.

I had to resort to walking my dog at odd hours of the night because my experience was that other dogs of all breeds could not be trusted.

This is all anecdotal, of course. And I fully agree that the owners must take responsibility for proper training and control of their animals, because they are animals and can't always be trusted to understand how humans wish they would behave under all circumstances.

 

[Inthedetails]

FWIW, I have someone close to me who was attacked like this (and survived). It was a freak thing - I personally think my friend was attacked because she turned her back and was crouching - and that position triggered instinct to attack. I'm not sure if the attack was to injure her or to play....but motive doesn't matter when you're overpowered. Someone came along and distracted the animal - it's possible she would've been killed if someone wasn't there to intervene.

I think we humans, when dealing with powerful animals, forget that we need to remain "top dog" at all times. I AM NOT blaming the Bethany any more than I blame my friend....it's just a situation where animals and humans respond differently. In this case, maybe Bethany did something inadvertently - something as simple as bending over and looking vulnerable - that triggered the dogs to jump on her and bite her, or maybe they were doing something like chasing a squirrel and she got caught in their aggression. I think once one dog started, the other joined in.

I'm thinking this was not murder but a horrible, awful accident, unless, of course, forensics tell us something different.

jmo

 

[keeponsearching]

I think there will always be those who love the pit breed, and lets not forget to mention the mix breed. Because a huge majority of pits in the news are a mix of some type. And those who want them banned. I had a wonderful full breed pit, super sweet. People feared pits but once they met Chloe they wanted to bring her home. We never had any issues finding a sitter for her. And my children got to be raise a few years before Chloe passed away. But I will tell you when we went to get her as a puppy I had some fear, and once my kids came along, again some fear. I was bitten by a dog when I was 3, so it comes naturally to me to teach my kids how to respect a dog. But Chloe never once growled at the babies/children, even when she was old and sick. This is just my opinion, we will all have on this case. But try to remember that Pit references a huge majority of mix breeds.

I need more information to decide what happen to Bethany, did she sleep with them, or fight them. I have heard so many rumors. Now idea what is true.

 

[Vedder]

You're blaming your grandson?

She stated her grandson provoked the dog by poking her face and the adults present did nothing to stop him.

 

[enelram]

Do we have any verifiable info on what the breed of dogs was? A few pages back, it was mentioned they may be
Presa Canario aka Canary Mastiff. What do we know know?

 

[cobalt sky]

I am no dog expert, but I will share my experience from a previous job that I had. I worked as a Public Health Nurse for several years, and part of my rotation at the health department was to take Animal Bite reports for the county and do follow-ups as needed. I will categorize the "bites" in two groups: superficial bites, and deep bites/wounds that needed extensive medical care. The superficial bites, the stories behind those bites were almost always children playing with the dog and the dog either getting too excited or annoyed, or dogs that weren't used to having children around. The dogs that we got most of those calls on were...Yorkies and Labs! Especially labs. Of course, there were also many other dog breeds that we received superficial calls about as well, but the Yorkie and Lab calls definitely outnumbered all other breeds. Now, as for deep bites/wounds, there was a big difference. The stories behind those injuries was that the attack was almost always unprovoked, and almost all of the dogs were pitbulls and wolf hybrids.

So to sum up, yes, any dog can attack, any dog can bite. BUT...there are definitely different patterns for different breeds as far as what, if anything, provokes an attack, and the severity of the injury. The Yorkie/Lab group of dogs, usually provoked, and it was more like nipping, warning. The pits and wolf hybrids, they attacked with the intention of severely injuring or killing. And again, largely unprovoked.

I'm not saying that other circumstances aren't possible, I'm just sharing my observations as having dealt with this kind of thing in my job.

<modsnip>

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Ok crazy thought here but what if.....

The person giving the now deceased death threats was her former lover or partner....and....

Wanted the dogs to maul her so they brought clothing with her sent and got the dogs trained and rewarded to rip her stuff apart. Maybe that&#8217;s why their cages were so mangled? Trained in their cages to attack her stuff while the perpetrator got them into a frenzy & finished his/her sessions by rewarding them with a big steak? Murder via canine?

Maybe the property is very rural & Dad didn&#8217;t notice anything?

Moo

TBH that sounds like a film script rather than reality.

 

[Lilibet]

Do we have any verifiable info on what the breed of dogs was? A few pages back, it was mentioned they may be
Presa Canario aka Canary Mastiff. What do we know know?

I haven&#8217;t heard anything definitive except their weight (around 120 lbs), which is much higher than any &#8220;pitbull&#8221; type of dog. It&#8217;s more in line with a Presa Canario. They may be a mix, as their faces appear to be more like a pit.

This article about American Pit Bull Terriors says:

• The term &#8220;Pit Bull&#8221; is often applied indiscriminately to APBTs, American Staffordshire Terriers and sometimes Staffordshire Bull Terriers, a British breed. The term may also be used to label any dog who resembles those breeds, even if he is a Lab mix with little or no &#8220;Pit Bull&#8221; in his background.

http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/american-pit-bull-terrier