VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #1

[Heroine]

Was it confirmed that he actually attended the show? Because I am having a hard time imagining what he's doing during it. Did he dance? Just stand there? Talk to people? This aspect is hard for me to understand.

I also agree it seems impossible that the show wouldn't be discussed on the way back. That's a long trip....

Possible the kids slept on the way back of course, especially after getting wasted at the event.

The images I've seen of him there, he didn't look very happy while he was standing alone, but while he was standing with a girl he seemed like he was having a good time. It wasn't emma. It was reported in some things that people have said that he seemed fine at the show and others have said he acted weird at the show, so it all depends on who you ask i guess.
If you look through this entire thread, you will find everything that is being discussed.
Edited to say: disregard this post I misunderstood who you were speaking of. I thought you were speaking of sam for some reason.

 

[gxm]

Too bad there aren't separate threads for the facts of the case, on-going criminal investigation, new updates, etc and the cultural aspects of the case.

It would be nice if the case got its own forum… but I guess there hasn't been enough interest? I'm not quite sure how that's decided.

 

[ziggy]

There's nothing wrong with speculation that is recognized and labeled as such. It's the speculation disguised as "truth" you need to watch out for.

I sat on the jury for an attempted murder trial two years ago and I got to meet the city's chief medical examiner who was one of the witnesses. She had a very precise manner of talking about what she knew and how she knew it that I have tried to emulate in my work. Speculation is fine, just keep the facts clearly separated from the guesses.

I think by now we are seasoned enough on the forum to easily communicate our speculations and what we feel are facts by linking documentation to back up stated facts. We've been doing just fine with our moderators in place and a great bunch of folks here at Websleuths.

We are not on the witness stand, we are speculating and brainstorming and putting the "what ifs" out there.

In the Danielle van Dam case that resulted in David Westerfield sitting on death row, the forum here was intrumental in the prosecution's case. The brainstorming and discussing possibilities on hair evidence - in other words, speculation by your standards - did not go unnoticed by the prosecution who had people infiltrating the boards and they used it to their benefit at trial.

 

[ziggy]

The images I've seen of him there, he didn't look very happy while he was standing alone, but while he was standing with a girl he seemed like he was having a good time. It wasn't emma. It was reported in some things that people have said that he seemed fine at the show and others have said he acted weird at the show, so it all depends on who you ask i guess.
If you look through this entire thread, you will find everything that is being discussed.

I think this was referencing whether Mark N. was at the concert - whether the parents were ever present at the event.

 

[gxm]

I'm not so sure that it was something as simple as wait for him, ambush him, rob him, and steal his car to make the escape, but it could have been just that.

I would be curious to know if the mother had a car (assuming she did) and if it was at the home at the time of the murders. If there was another car at his disposal, why didn't he just take off in it? The easy answer for this scenario would be he either needed money or he was hunting for a bigger trophy.

I've wondered that too. Maybe Sam couldn't find her keys? Or maybe her car was low on gas and he was trying to get to Richmond without the funds to fuel up.

I'm haunted by Atlantica's comment that Sam had really done a number on the pastor. It sounded like he was killed in a different manner and that he'd been viciously attacked. Perhaps I'm reading too much into her comment but that's how it sounded to me.

 

[ziggy]

It sounded that way to me too - like there was apparently more rage in the infliction of the fatalaties when it came to Mark. Interesting if that is the case, because you'd think there had been a cooling off period - laying in wait, very premeditated - why would he be MORE angry and enraged with him?

There is a video of where Sick says "you can call me Jesus Christ". Any significance to Sam's utterance?

 

[Heroine]

I think this was referencing whether Mark N. was at the concert - whether the parents were ever present at the event.

oh...now that i can't answer that because I never seen the parents there. All I know is they took them, but noone ever mentions if they stayed. I did hear someone say that emmas mom gave Raz some food she had brought somewhere.

 

[Heroine]

I've wondered that too. Maybe Sam couldn't find her keys? Or maybe her car was low on gas and he was trying to get to Richmond without the funds to fuel up.

I'm haunted by Atlantica's comment that Sam had really done a number on the pastor. It sounded like he was killed in a different manner and that he'd been viciously attacked. Perhaps I'm reading too much into her comment but that's how it sounded to me.

Where was this comment again? I missed that somehow.

 

[Heroine]

It sounded that way to me too - like there was apparently more rage in the infliction of the fatalaties when it came to Mark. Interesting if that is the case, because you'd think there had been a cooling off period - laying in wait, very premeditated - why would he be MORE angry and enraged with him?

There is a video of where Sick says "you can call me Jesus Christ". Any significance to Sam's utterance?

That video is also in this thread....somewhere.

 

[ziggy]

Here's what I saw in that video - the guys that looked a bit out of place there.

[/IMG]

 

[rainbow]

"Just because when you drive by and you don't see men corralling the teens with tasers and mag lights does not mean there is no security. If you had maybe taken the time to step inside this terrible, terrible den of iniquity, you would have seen more often then not several adults wearing black shirts with "SECURITY" written across their chests and backs."
http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2009/10/03/news/doc4ac781e750d3a486186110.txt

This is from an article regarding "The Modern Exchange", the venue used for the concert/s. This could explain who the men in black shirts were in the pics.

 

[rainbow]

Here's what I saw in that video - the guys that looked a bit out of place there.

[/IMG]

I agree. Maybe some locals who decided to check out the concert? The venue regularly holds concerts, not just horrorcore.

 

[4Kat]

It sounded that way to me too - like there was apparently more rage in the infliction of the fatalaties when it came to Mark. Interesting if that is the case, because you'd think there had been a cooling off period - laying in wait, very premeditated - why would he be MORE angry and enraged with him?

There is a video of where Sick says "you can call me Jesus Christ". Any significance to Sam's utterance?

Just speculation here, but is it possible that Mark fought back? I also imagine that he was a much larger and stronger man than Sam. If the girls were attacked while they slept, there was not much of a fight there.

 

[dangrsmind]

"Just because when you drive by and you don't see men corralling the teens with tasers and mag lights does not mean there is no security. If you had maybe taken the time to step inside this terrible, terrible den of iniquity, you would have seen more often then not several adults wearing black shirts with "SECURITY" written across their chests and backs."
http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2009/10/03/news/doc4ac781e750d3a486186110.txt

This is from an article regarding "The Modern Exchange", the venue used for the concert/s. This could explain who the men in black shirts were in the pics.

Good to hear there was security at the event, especially given it was an all ages show. I had wondered about that previously. Security at underground events is always pretty touchy. If the security is too loose you have trouble, and if it is too tight it kills the party. I know several people in the bay area that do security for underground events and venues and anyone that can manage this delicate balance is in high demand.

 

[ziggy]

Just speculation here, but is it possible that Mark fought back? I also imagine that he was a much larger and stronger man than Sam. If the girls were attacked while they slept, there was not much of a fight there.

Good point, he could have been the only one to see it coming.

Sam did have some scratches on his neck that did not look like the hickeys we saw in pics from the concert. Wonder if Sam had any wounds other than those? If Emma's Dad did fight, bless his heart. I feel so bad for them all and the families that they've left behind.

I do remember Atlantica (went to the funeral and knew the folks) saying he really did a number on Mark. I just went back and searched the thread and can't find it. Were some of her posts deleted?

I hope we hear more than the sound of crickets on this case soon.

 

[Heroine]

Good to hear there was security at the event, especially given it was an all ages show. I had wondered about that previously. Security at underground events is always pretty touchy. If the security is too loose you have trouble, and if it is too tight it kills the party. I know several people in the bay area that do security for underground events and venues and anyone that can manage this delicate balance is in high demand.

Some of the info in that article is a bit inaccurate, but good find all the same.
this is a bit off...
McCroskey reportedly had an Internet romance with Emma Niederbrock and planned to meet her at The Modern Exchange for the show.

After the show, he traveled to Virginia with the family. Later that week, the four were found dead in the Niederbrock-Kelley home. Police said the bodies were decomposing.

 

[eachandevery]

Forgive me for being dense, but I still don't understand how Sam was able to kill all three females, even if it were done while they slept. Wouldn't one wake up during an attack? And if so, wouldn't a lot of noise be made, thus waking up the others? It's just one of those things I can't get past.

 

[dangrsmind]

Some of the info in that article is a bit inaccurate, but good find all the same.
this is a bit off...
McCroskey reportedly had an Internet romance with Emma Niederbrock and planned to meet her at The Modern Exchange for the show.

After the show, he traveled to Virginia with the family. Later that week, the four were found dead in the Niederbrock-Kelley home. Police said the bodies were decomposing.

The comments are worth the price of admission. I note some of the people posting there describe the horrorcore audience as respectful and well behaved, and also think it is notable that there were no reports of violence or problems at the show itself.

 

[dangrsmind]

Good point, he could have been the only one to see it coming.

Sam did have some scratches on his neck that did not look like the hickeys we saw in pics from the concert. Wonder if Sam had any wounds other than those? If Emma's Dad did fight, bless his heart. I feel so bad for them all and the families that they've left behind.

I do remember Atlantica (went to the funeral and knew the folks) saying he really did a number on Mark. I just went back and searched the thread and can't find it. Were some of her posts deleted?

I hope we hear more than the sound of crickets on this case soon.

I don't remember seeing this posting FWIW.

 

[Heroine]

The comments are worth the price of admission. I note some of the people posting there describe the horrorcore audience as respectful and well behaved, and also think it is notable that there were no reports of violence or problems at the show itself.

Yeah well i also saw someone say that alcoholand drugs aren't allowed there too, but sick and raz had a bottle of jack Daniels or jim beam...(alcohol) on stage. So those comments mean just as much to me as that inaccurate information in the article. Not to mention, the place really has nothing to do with the murders anyway.
Edited to speak on the part of the article that says there isn't any violence. A man beating himself in the head, or beating his girlfriend on stage isn't any violence? Yeah just the kinda role models I want my kids to look up to and mimic.