VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #2

[dangrsmind]

So... that road is looking (and being described as, by police) pretty desolate in that spot. Maybe that's why Sam turned around there--he had found a good spot for dumping, in accordance with Plan A. Wrecks car--goes to Plan B.

Dumping the bodies but leaving all evidence at the house does not seem like a feasible plan, though. I suppose he may have thought he could clean up after, but it seems like he'd know more about blood, given his proclivities.

I was thinking about Leilah.... Sam doesn't seem like much of a sexual guy to me. I don't recall any of his lyrics as being overtly necrophiliac or even living-body sexual in nature. (Could be wrong there--I didn't read all that many.) Just a feeling, but I don't see him engaging in such.

Not all post-mortem manipulation of bodies is sexual in nature, sometimes the bodies are simply posed to demonstrate control or parts of them consumed by the murderer as two examples. There's a fairly wide variety of behaviors here reported in the literature despite this being a very rare thing generally.

 

[dangrsmind]

I'm a visual person too, that's why some benevolent creature(s) devised google maps for us. If you don't know already, you can drag the little orange man to the street and get a street view in any of these places.

http://tinyurl.com/sheetz-to-1st-ave
Google estimates that as a 36 minute walk, one way, if you know where you're going. He would have had to hustle, which doesn't seem to be his thing, and there's no reason why he would have rushed back for a leisurely meal at the Huddle house, which is just north of the Sheetz. He could very easily had a meal and then walked to the house, done anything he wanted to do, and then called a taxi. He didn't though. The loss of the car may explain that, but it seems to me he was done there. One random thought that pops into my head regarding that is that I'm surprised he didn't burn the place down.

By the way, on that map, the house where the murder's occurred, 505 1st Ave., isn't correctly identified. It's the one on the West side of 1St. Ave. at the South end of the ball field. Its isolation probably had something to do with no neighbors hearing or smelling anything.

http://tinyurl.com/poorhouse-site
I'm guessing the tow truck driver knew the area pretty well and/or had GPS. His route back to town would very likely have been West on 637, North on 630, and North West on 628, which would have brought them back to Rt. 15 very close to Sheetz.

I think McCroskey was lost on Poorhouse Road. Like I wrote before, it can be very difficult to turn around on a rural road without getting stuck. I've had to unstick myself more than once while trying to do that. Why that road it's hard to say, but the same could be said for choosing it as a dumping ground. 460 is the start of the way to the airport though.

There may have been more to his being on that road, but he's hardly fit, and I can't imagine him picking up one body let alone 4, especially when one seems to have been a fairly large man. I don't remember the car model, but I'm pretty sure it's a compact to mid-size import. That means one body per trip if they're in the trunk. I don't get the impression that he is brilliant at all, but he would have had to have given that at least a bit of thought.

On the topic of McCroskey's fitness, I'm surprised at the identification of a maul as the murder weapon. I've split my fair share of wood, and those are hard to swing, at least with any sort of accuracy. The heads are usually around 5-8 lbs. Once it's swung, you have to pick it back up which takes some effort, and I would expect it to be stuck as well, if you can pardon the image that conjures. It would be hard for a strong person to do that quickly and repeatedly. I wonder how a kid from another world, who (I'm guessing here) hasn't likely split a whole lot of firewood, could handle it so quickly and effectively. I can't imagine al three females sleeping in the same room, so he would have had to do it very quickly on the run or very quietly. An unweighted stick would be much quicker, which probably explains why that's what killed the pastor. I wonder if the maul might have been used to finish up a job he started with something else.

I agree with you but it is hard to judge the effects of adrenaline here. People have performed amazing feats under stress...

I was driving over on Geary Street the other day and I saw two guys exercising by hitting an old tire with a sledgehammer and it brought this issue to mind. I lived in a house that was heated with wood burning stoves for two years and I had to split my own wood. I used a wedge and a sledgehammer not a maul though. Very hard work.

 

[dangrsmind]

That's an interesting angle. Maybe the bodies were moved (out of bed) to get them closer to the door. And, that may be why the cops finally smelled the decay when they came by the house for the third (or is that fourth) time.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a public report about the location of the bodies. At least not one that I am remembering...

 

[dangrsmind]

So... that road is looking (and being described as, by police) pretty desolate in that spot. Maybe that's why Sam turned around there--he had found a good spot for dumping, in accordance with Plan A. Wrecks car--goes to Plan B.

Dumping the bodies but leaving all evidence at the house does not seem like a feasible plan, though. I suppose he may have thought he could clean up after, but it seems like he'd know more about blood, given his proclivities.

I was thinking about Leilah.... Sam doesn't seem like much of a sexual guy to me. I don't recall any of his lyrics as being overtly necrophiliac or even living-body sexual in nature. (Could be wrong there--I didn't read all that many.) Just a feeling, but I don't see him engaging in such.

Another comment on this post...

He apparently read the Dexter books. Also its not like they never show the use of Luminol and UV light on TV. And of course most people are aware of the use of DNA evidence as well. I think this is all common knowledge these days.

It is not that easy to clean up a violent bloody crime scene. But maybe that's what he was doing in the house all that time?

 

[dangrsmind]

That's an interesting angle. Maybe the bodies were moved (out of bed) to get them closer to the door. And, that may be why the cops finally smelled the decay when they came by the house for the third (or is that fourth) time.

Seems to fit the facts. But why did he call the police to the house?

Possibly as others have suggested he wanted to turn himself in, then had second thoughts. Given his music etc. I find this sort of hard to believe, but maybe slightly less so than the theory that he was possessed by the Sumerian demon Pazuzu.

It is also possible this wasn't his first murder of course and serial killers sometimes do try to demonstrate control or superiority to the law enforcement people trying to catch them.

 

[dangrsmind]

Generally I don't care to defend myself against this sort of thing, but in the interest of explaining a bit more about what I was looking for in the jail house "walk of shame" video here it is.

Even on dark clothing a large amount of blood is sometimes visible as a discoloration or stain.

Here's a crime scene photograph from one of the Manson killings.

There is blood visible as a discoloration on both the dark areas of the pants and on the black areas of the zebra rug. You have to zoom in to see this, but it is there.

I looked on McCroskey's clothes for something similar and didn't find it. However the image quality is poor and of course a lot would depend on the specific material and color of the fabric. Some fabrics are more absorbent and would be difficult to clean with out laundering them, and a lot also depends on the specific color of the dye. For example a cotton hoodie might fall into this class of absorbent hard to clean items. Other fabrics are relatively easily cleaned although obviously careful examination by a forensic specialist would still reveal the presence of blood in many cases.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a similar discoloration in the image I examined but obviously this isn't conclusive since I can't see most of his shirt for example.

 

[magnaccia]

The fact he sounds like a complete shut in that spent vast amounts of time online and playing video games, he obviously doesn't have a great grip on reality, explains most of the pressing questions in the case.

Why he called police
Why he didn't seem concerned with his odor around others
Why he didn't sleep, change clothes, bathe
Why he stole the dad's car and eventually wrecked it
Why he stayed with the bodies after doing the deed

He had a crappy family, poor social surroundings and spent most of his time in a fantasy world of music and games. He probably felt like he'd get away, like he had one up on the law and knew what to do in order to get back to Cali and proceed with life as if nothing happened.

 

[dangrsmind]

The fact he sounds like a complete shut in that spent vast amounts of time online and playing video games, he obviously doesn't have a great grip on reality, explains most of the pressing questions in the case.

Why he called police
Why he didn't seem concerned with his odor around others
Why he didn't sleep, change clothes, bathe
Why he stole the dad's car and eventually wrecked it
Why he stayed with the bodies after doing the deed

He had a crappy family, poor social surroundings and spent most of his time in a fantasy world of music and games.

I don't see how this explains him calling the police, sorry.

I can imagine him possibly not understanding the consequences of his actions or the likelihood of being caught based on these factors, but calling the police was something he had to decide to do for a reason. And then he also had to actually place the call which he did.

What was his reason for making this call?

 

[AndresEscobar]

As far as his actions later and smelling and not caring.. sleep deprivation in itself can make one not think clearly. At that point maybe even a psychotic break. One thing for sure; he PLANNED it out if they were sleeping, at least to some extent. He stayed for days with the bodies, answered the phone, and eventually killed the father. That is not a poor lost kid that snapped. To me, its a psychopath.

Sorry to rebut your statement, I'd like to make a point. Several people have suggested that because the victims were sleeping, he DEFINITELY had the requisite intent for first degree murder. This is simply not true. While the fact that they were asleep suggests intent, it is not "for sure."

Example: McCroskey is awake while the women are asleep. Emma's phone goes off with a text message. He goes into a rage, kills them all or kills her, panic and kills the rest.

In this fact pattern, McCroskey does not have the requisite intent. He also certainly did not "plan' this.

If he, as is alleged, lied in wait for the father, he would have the requisite intent for first degree murder with regard to the father. But again, we don't know that.

 

[magnaccia]

I don't see how this explains him calling the police, sorry.

I can imagine him possibly not understanding the consequences of his actions or the likelihood of being caught based on these factors, but calling the police was something he had to decide to do for a reason. And then he also had to actually place the call which he did.

What was his reason for making this call?

The simplest answer is probably the easiest, he legitimately heard a noise and was freaked out, so he called them. He's in fantasy land, so what does he care if the police show up? They're coming because he called and he probably figured, as shown by his other actions, that he was above suspicion and took little precaution. Which is exactly what happened, they came to investigate the noise and left while being none the wiser to the massacre.

 

[dangrsmind]

The simplest answer is probably the easiest, he legitimately heard a noise and was freaked out, so he called them. He's in fantasy land, so what does he care if the police show up? They're coming because he called and he probably figured, as shown by his other actions, that he was above suspicion and took little precaution. Which is exactly what happened, they came to investigate the noise and left while being none the wiser to the massacre.

Hmm. Nope, I'm not convinced.

Anyone that has had prior experience with law enforcement knows that once they are involved things become unpredictable. While McCroskey had no prior criminal record, we know that he had previous interactions with the police, i.e. his sister had apparently called the cops on him for being too loud in their home (if I recall that story correctly). Reporting an intruder could have easily gone wrong and resulted in the police finding the bodies if they had decided to search the rest of the house. Why do this?

The most common scenario is that the murderer leaves the scene immediately. In other cases they try to hide the evidence including the bodies. I can't think of another case I've heard about where the murderer called the police to the scene while they were still there with the bodies and other evidence.

He's a fan of serial killers and has read about them on the Internet and possibly elsewhere. He's read stories about them getting away with murders and getting caught. His namesake David Berkowitz got away with a number of murders for example before eventually being caught. He didn't hang around the scene waiting to get caught, but he did send letters taunting the police. I can see that McCrosky might have imagined a similar scenario for himself.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Hmm. Nope, I'm not convinced.

Anyone that has had prior experience with law enforcement knows that once they are involved things become unpredictable. While McCroskey had no prior criminal record, we know that he had previous interactions with the police, i.e. his sister had apparently called the cops on him for being too loud in their home (if I recall that story correctly). Reporting an intruder could have easily gone wrong and resulted in the police finding the bodies if they had decided to search the rest of the house. Why do this?

The most common scenario is that the murderer leaves the scene immediately. In other cases they try to hide the evidence including the bodies. I can't think of another case I've heard about where the murderer called the police to the scene while they were still there with the bodies and other evidence.

He's a fan of serial killers and has read about them on the Internet and possibly elsewhere. He's read stories about them getting away with murders and getting caught. His namesake David Berkowitz got away with a number of murders for example before eventually being caught. He didn't hang around the scene waiting to get caught, but he did send letters taunting the police. I can see that McCrosky might have imagined a similar scenario for himself.

This may have already been asked/answered and if it has I apologize, I have read both threads, kept up to date, but I don't remember seeing...

is there a recording of what same told dispatchers when he called in for the police?

 

[tapu]

Generally I don't care to defend myself against this sort of thing, but in the interest of explaining a bit more about what I was looking for in the jail house "walk of shame" video here it is.

Even on dark clothing a large amount of blood is sometimes visible as a discoloration or stain.

Here's a crime scene photograph from one of the Manson killings.

There is blood visible as a discoloration on both the dark areas of the pants and on the black areas of the zebra rug. You have to zoom in to see this, but it is there.

I looked on McCroskey's clothes for something similar and didn't find it. However the image quality is poor and of course a lot would depend on the specific material and color of the fabric. Some fabrics are more absorbent and would be difficult to clean with out laundering them, and a lot also depends on the specific color of the dye. For example a cotton hoodie might fall into this class of absorbent hard to clean items. Other fabrics are relatively easily cleaned although obviously careful examination by a forensic specialist would still reveal the presence of blood in many cases.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a similar discoloration in the image I examined but obviously this isn't conclusive since I can't see most of his shirt for example.

The Tate crime scene photos would have been taken 6-10 hours after the killings; Sam's jail walk, several days later. Also, Sam is looking pretty layered in that shot. Could he have just had the shirt and pants on in the house, without the cover-up?

 

[gxm]

Sorry to rebut your statement, I'd like to make a point. Several people have suggested that because the victims were sleeping, he DEFINITELY had the requisite intent for first degree murder. This is simply not true. While the fact that they were asleep suggests intent, it is not "for sure."

Example: McCroskey is awake while the women are asleep. Emma's phone goes off with a text message. He goes into a rage, kills them all or kills her, panic and kills the rest.

In this fact pattern, McCroskey does not have the requisite intent. He also certainly did not "plan' this.

If he, as is alleged, lied in wait for the father, he would have the requisite intent for first degree murder with regard to the father. But again, we don't know that.

In that case, there would need to be a second text message. One in addition to the first one that he and Emma had already argued about.

Based on the little we know of the case, it looks to me that the murders were premeditated. Sam told the cab driver that he waited for Emma to go to sleep before he "left the house." I think he substituted "left the house" in place of "bludgeoning her death" because he was still trying to cover up his crimes.

"McCroskey said his girlfriend got angry when he confronted her about the message, accusing him of invading her privacy. He told Gibson he didn’t want to argue so he waited for her to go to sleep and left the house."

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/n...nted_girlfriend_over_text_message/295462/P10/

I still believe he called the police to investigate the basement because he wanted to use the non-existent intruder as an alibi. He called the cops to the house in the early morning hours of Friday, September 18. By 6:20 AM he was in the cab heading to the airport. In the cab he tells the driver that he had a fight with his girlfriend and left after she fell asleep. IMO, he was trying to create a suspect other than himself.

 

[dangrsmind]

This may have already been asked/answered and if it has I apologize, I have read both threads, kept up to date, but I don't remember seeing...

is there a recording of what same told dispatchers when he called in for the police?

The press stated that he reported hearing nosies in the basement, but no recordings were released to my knowledge. I would have been all over them

See http://www.wtvr.com/wtvr-timeline-farmville,0,6154563.story

I just also have to mention that someone hearing "sounds in the basement" is a horror movie cliche This also has an occult reference as well, indicating an unseen force or power present in the house.

 

[gxm]

The Tate crime scene photos would have been taken 6-10 hours after the killings; Sam's jail walk, several days later. Also, Sam is looking pretty layered in that shot. Could he have just had the shirt and pants on in the house, without the cover-up?

I agree. Also in the murder scene photo, it's the victim who is covered in blood and I'm guessing it's his own blood. Unless Sam rolled around in his victims' blood, he'd have splatter on him, not large areas of bleed out.

 

[dangrsmind]

In that case, there would need to be a second text message. One in addition to the first one that he and Emma had already argued about.

Based on the little we know of the case, it looks to me that the murders were premeditated. Sam told the cab driver that he waited for Emma to go to sleep before he "left the house." I think he substituted "left the house" in place of "bludgeoning her death" because he was still trying to cover up his crimes.

"McCroskey said his girlfriend got angry when he confronted her about the message, accusing him of invading her privacy. He told Gibson he didn’t want to argue so he waited for her to go to sleep and left the house."

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/n...nted_girlfriend_over_text_message/295462/P10/

I still believe he called the police to investigate the basement because he wanted to use the non-existent intruder as an alibi. He called the cops to the house in the early morning hours of Friday, September 18. By 6:20 AM he was in the cab heading to the airport. In the cab he tells the driver that he had a fight with his girlfriend and left after she fell asleep. IMO, he was trying to create a suspect other than himself.

Why the expedition to Poorhouse Road?

The main thing that bothers me about this theory is that usually an effective alibi would entail constructing a story where the person is somewhere else at the time of the murders rather than at the scene calling the police. But maybe he is just this stupid or out of reality. I don't know.

I guess we also still don't know if he had the murder weapons in the car or not. Perhaps he intended to stash them out there, then almost got caught and decided to get out of town.

 

[dangrsmind]

The Tate crime scene photos would have been taken 6-10 hours after the killings; Sam's jail walk, several days later. Also, Sam is looking pretty layered in that shot. Could he have just had the shirt and pants on in the house, without the cover-up?

As I said examination of these images is inconclusive. So there may or may not be blood stains you just can't say. The bright red stuff is not blood. I examined that and it is the shirt design which is made to look like blood.

Somewhat ironic or something.

 

[dangrsmind]

I agree. Also in the murder scene photo, it's the victim who is covered in blood and I'm guessing it's his own blood. Unless Sam rolled around in his victims' blood, he'd have splatter on him, not large areas of bleed out.

Have you ever examined a crime scene photo from a murder where someone was brutally bludgeoned to death? There is a lot of splatter. I posted a link yesterday from this same site couple of pages back. A lot would depend on the exact circumstances I imagine.

 

[tapu]

Is he wearing a jacket in that picture, that covers up all but a V-shaped upper area of his shirt? Maybe the jacket is over the soaked-in blood, making whatever's there really hard to see in that picture.