VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #3

[blouAngel]

Sam sites so far
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...2352132&imageID=45392231#a=2352132&i=47094439
http://www.myspace.com/morbiddesigns.net
http://www.myspace.com/demosdarkblaze
http://www.myspace.com/sarahthizzleubz
http://www.youtube.com/user/piXYNectar420#p/a/u/1/jV6qRSvLmd8
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=25227&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://www.youtube.com/user/OMGitsSunshiine
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/014308.html
http://www.cafepress.com/imgoinsamonit
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache...dog&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
http://www.youtube.com/user/SkitzTheAutopsyQueen#p/u/0/l1Hr9D02mpA
http://sykosam.info/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Samuel_McCroskey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Berkowitz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Murder_Trial
http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/state...ccroskey_indicted_in_farmville_murders/59582/
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/crime/article/FARM041_20091104-001202/303559/
http://jesustoldmetodoit.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTempWhiteboy334#p/a/u/2/eFiWTwPirrM
http://www.xfire.com/profile/lildemondog/
http://www.myspaceprofiles.org/profiles/6231535.html

This may have been mentioned here before, but I don't recall seeing it. Another "interesting" angle on things, McCroskey as ritualistic Jewish murderer. Someone does step in and call that notion into question because of the obvious red hair and Irish name issue and the thread was ended. You ought to get a kick out of it dangrs, but I'd be kinda surprised if you haven't taken a peek already.
Rap Star Slaughters Family - Stormfront

 

[NativeGirl]

www.myspace.com/466497488 <---Chevelle Mccroskey sams mom myspace not much on it.

 

[dangrsmind]

This may have been mentioned here before, but I don't recall seeing it. Another "interesting" angle on things, McCroskey as ritualistic Jewish murderer. Someone does step in and call that notion into question because of the obvious red hair and Irish name issue and the thread was ended. You ought to get a kick out of it dangrs, but I'd be kinda surprised if you haven't taken a peek already.
Rap Star Slaughters Family - Stormfront

Yes I did see it. If you Google "ritual murder", you get a lot of stuff about supposed Jewish ritual murders FWIW.

The conversation there is a great example of how people's reality tunnels and prior belief systems impact their interpretation of new information. Thanks for posting it.

 

[dangrsmind]

McCroskey was a Juggalo....

Actually you&#8217;re wrong ninja!

I&#8217;m a good online friend of Sam&#8217;s and he is indeed a Juggalo.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/10/06/image5367341.jpg

theres a picture of him with a Twiztid shirt. I used to talk to the on my AIM sn (LILfreekyJUGGALO) and his was LiLdEmOnDoG. We would play runescape and WoW together occasionally and **** like that. He ****ed up though, and just because he&#8217;s a Juggalo and he killed people doesn&#8217;t mean Juggalos kill people.

I will admit that he does make Juggalos look bad but that was straight insane. It went way BEYOND the hatchet.. he dug further into the Horrocore realm and started to make his own **** and own ways. He&#8217;s ****ing sick as ****.

 

[maunsapt]

It really depends on what the judge will allow since state laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder.

GENERALLY speaking it only applies when the specific, intentional and rational decision is made to MURDER. The fantasies you suggest would not be admissable unless you have a very incompetent attorney.

It could be SECONDS or days or weeks but a rational and intentional decision would have had to have been made and this decision PROVEN in court, that this person was going to kill someone else.

If Sam's attorney is any good the jury will never hear about the songs he made. However, that does depend on what the judge will personally allow, I would argue to have it tossed as it is frankly irrelevant to the case and has nothing to do with the murder. There is no evidence to suggest he had any plans to kill anyone WHILE HE WAS MAKING THE SONG so therefore to introduce such would taint the jury and set Sam up for a nice appeal.
IF the maul was IN THE ROOM and an argument broke out and he grabbed it (weapon of opportunity) and killed whoever was in the room, that would likely not be premeditated murder but rather "heat of the passion." But once Sam made a rational and intentional decision to GO LOOK FOR A WEAPON to be used to kill Emma etc, he premeditated the murder.

In the case of SAM the premeditation would likely begin, legally speaking, the moment he decided to walk to the woodpile and pick up the maul.

i'm following your theory of the ifs. but, it's kind of a wonderment, since the autopsy report says that it appeared some of the victims were already asleep, an argument wouldnt have happened unless he was really into his 'fantasy' acting out his horrorcore stuff and percieved there was an argument. hope i dont sound confusing.

also, it's kind of interesting that he attacks the father too, had he known the father was coming to check on them? is there anything anywhere that says the father made contact with sam prior to going there? this is really a big wonderment on why did sam kill the dad too, unless, he was still in his 'fantasy-acting out' mode of thinking and attacked him as well....jmo

 

[dangrsmind]

i'm following your theory of the ifs. but, it's kind of a wonderment, since the autopsy report says that it appeared some of the victims were already asleep, an argument wouldnt have happened unless he was really into his 'fantasy' acting out his horrorcore stuff and percieved there was an argument. hope i dont sound confusing.

also, it's kind of interesting that he attacks the father too, had he known the father was coming to check on them? is there anything anywhere that says the father made contact with sam prior to going there? this is really a big wonderment on why did sam kill the dad too, unless, he was still in his 'fantasy-acting out' mode of thinking and attacked him as well....jmo

Autopsy reports? Link?

 

[ziggy]

I agree with your first statement. I feel the texts must have been something that either set him off or broke the camels back, so to speak.

You make a good point about the cooling off period. It's problematic. It's a wrench for the defense. But, if in order to get the death penalty, they would have to prove premeditation in at least two of the murders. Father and mother are probably the most likely. But if the defense can make it seem like he killed all three women in one rage . . .(Good job, applying crimlaw, btw, you're going to do great in your classes.)

Thanks I do have Torts and Crim same time and yes, it's slightly confusing but I'm able to distinguish them much easier as time goes on. This is my very first semester so I'm a complete newbie. Also have Contracts which makes me want to stick a sharp object in my eye.

Anyway, we could say heat of passion for Emma, no premeditation because he was set off by texts and romance gone sour. Premeditation for Mel and Debra because he had to cover his tracks - backed up by the fact they may have been killed in their sleep and there was no reason for him to be mad at Debra - I'm sure she had nothing to do with the texts and she was very nice to let him come and stay at the home.

Will be interesting to know what forensics can show that help determine who was killed first and where etc. He's getting the death penalty I'm thinkin' and fyi I want to go into criminal prosecution. (If I had to sit around and look at breach of contract cases I'd seriously hate life.)

 

[dangrsmind]

In 2007, Underground rap artist SickTanicK put out one of the most speculated upon (still to this day) Wicked**** albums of all time, Chapter One : Doctrines Of The Damned, the sequel to his 2005 Release "Premanitions".Chapter One : Doctrines Of The Damned,is considered to be a "Audio Grimoire" of Occult Knowledge & Esoteric Symbolism, the first album of its kind in Underground History.
Six Months after the initial release, Chapter 1 : Doctrines Of The Damned (Part 2) was to drop, but SickTanicK decided to wait & Sit on the Material Until the Time Was Right.

Now it is 2009, Chapter 1 : Doctrines Of The Damned has been released and distributed on a international level and is one of SKR's best selling records of all time, In Celebration Of his upcoming Release "Chapter 2 : In Nomine SickTanicK"(due to be released January 2010) SickTanicK Has decided to release this album in its entirety and let it be heard for the first time outside the walls of the Grotto.

Chapter 1 : Doctrines Of The Damned (Part 2) Features Collaborations with hand picked Artists on every track, Delivering their own spin on the Doctrines. Including Alternate Bonus Tracks (Including a Brand New Hate Magnet Song, and a Glimpse at Chapter 2) This album will be like hearing Chapter 1 forthe first time all over again for Deciples Of The Watch Worldwide.

Tracklisting :

Intro
This Is My Story This Is My Life
Doctrines Of The Damned ft F2H
Watch Your Saviors Die ft Darkhalf & Razakel
Scream ft Razakel
I Hate This World So **** This World ft Mental Ward
Deciples Rise ft Shy One & KGP
Unholy Execution ft Scum
Beezulbubs Prophecy ft Kiltcha & Ignited
Ceremony In Flames ft Komatose & Two Clipz
My Flesh Is His Flesh (Thou Is Amoungst Us) ft Bloodshot & Cap One
SickTanicK ft Insane Poetry
Take The Devils Hand ft TC & Demonic
God Hates Me I Hate Him Too ft Red Dawn
You Live Forever Pt 2
The Reflecting God ft Guttamind
Welcome To Reality

Bonus Tracks :

Hate Magnet - Misery
1222010

Marketing Points :

This album will be promoted using various outlets of Online and Offline
sources, like, but not excluded to Killmusick.com, Myspace, Reverbnation,Itunes, Rhapsody, Napster, Street Teams & Select Retail Outlets & various Online and Offline Publications This is a Pro-Press Product.

Key Domestic Markets :
Detroit
Los Angeles
Albuquerque
Virginia
Pennsylvania
Massachusetts

Key International Markets :

Germany
Norway
Australia

Artist : SickTanicK Tha Souless
Title : Chapter 1 : Doctrines Of The Damned (Part 2)
Release Date : 11 - 30 - 2009
Pre Order Ship Date : 11 - 28 - 2009
Genre : Wicked**** / Occult Rap
Cat No : SKR0907
UPC : (TBAS)
Format : CD Audio

 

[ziggy]

Hmm I know a guy who actually lived in the home before them. I may ask him how he had it laid out. I think that Sam was on sofa supposed to be sleeping. He gets up kills the mother, then upstairs to the girls room. Father comes home invites him in hits him with ballping hammer. Not sure how he was found upstairs. Would be hard to drag him upstairs but not impossible. Wow how can anyone actually commit these crimes. Had to be planned out to a degree. No one goes in a rage and kills this many. Especially killing someone while they sleep. Not like they were having a arguement an you hit them. He waited planned and executed. I do believe he wanted to off a Officer also. Hence the basement call. But two officers showed. He played his song out the best he could. Did he call/text the friend thinking they would be amazed only to find out they were appalled. Then they called police.

Hey there welcome.

Can you give me some idea about the layout? The area to the left where the bodies were found, it extends deep toward the backyard. There was described, a front bedroom, as Emma's in the search warrant. How many bedrooms are in that section? There is an upstairs floor in that section too.

The main part of the house as I call it, is the part on the right side if you are facing the house, and it is larger than it looks in pics if you see the aerial on Google Earth it extends towards the backyard too. Living room, kitchen, den etc I'm assuming are in that part but was wondering about bedrooms and perhaps where Debra's was in relation to Emmas because they all ended up in Emmas room I think (which is creepy considering we've had a peek into her life there via internet).

 

[AndresEscobar]

I think I understand what you're saying, Andres, and tentatively I could agree with how you explain it in the context of this case, but how does this question bear upon it:

What if a guy writes poems, diary entries, songs explicitly about killing people en masse, and then one day he goes out and kills people en masse? Does only his intent as shown in getting a weapon or something like that count as premeditation, or can his longterm expression of his intent be brought in also? Wouldn't it be weird to say that proclaiming you're going to kill people before you do it doesn't count as evidence that you thought about it and decided to do it in advance??

Hey, sorry, just getting back to this threat. Whether you agree with it or not, that's how the law works. I don't necessarily agree with how mens rea works either. It's crazy. Frustrating. It's one of the reasons why law school is one of the most stressful, infuriating things i've ever done.

Here is my explanation: there are many answers to killing people en masse, and it depends on the state and their specific statutes. Also, we have to agree to a specific set of facts before I can explain because everything is fact sensitive.

First degree or premeditated murder is a crime in every state. It requires two elements: the mens rea and the actus reas. The actus reas (or, evil act) is easy. Someone has to cause the death of another.

The mens rea (or evil mind) is harder. This is why the basic act of causing the death of another is graded into first degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter (and others, depending on the state). These grades are dependent on the level of intent.

The mens rea for first degree or premeditated murder is "malice aforethought", or basically premeditation. However, murder is a specific intent crime. Specific intent is pretty tricky. It can happen in only a couple moments, but there are also things that can erase that intent.

For instance, a husband comes home and sees his wife in bed with another man. He screams "I'm going to kill you" goes to the garage, grabs a gun, and shoots them both. In this instance, even though it looks premeditated, the intent probably isn't there for premeditated murder.

So, a person, lets call them Billy, commits a mass murder in a public location. Billy wrote poems, songs, drew pictures about killing people. This is not premeditation for his crime. However, if there were plans, hit lists, maps, bombs built, etc, that would be indicative of premeditation. The difference is specific intent. Bringing a weapon would be an instance of specific intent. Billy would have to specifically intend to go to the public area and kill people. He can't just go off in public, grab a mailbox and start beating people with it.

Also, in the instance of killing people en masse, there are probably statutes in most states defining a cime different from premeditated murder for these instances.

 

[AndresEscobar]

And I think you are misunderstanding the point that I'm trying to make. That point is that a jury (the folks who decide the case) may choose logic over legalese and decide that a man preoccupied with the thought (malice aforethought) of bludgeoning people to death is guilty of premeditation when he does in fact finally act on those impulses that he himself had publicly declared for a lengthy amount of time. It's going to be VERY HARD to convince a jury that the idea of bludgeoning Emma, Emma's parents and Mel just came to Sam all of a sudden in a split second.

No, i'm not. The jury can make whatever decision it wants. If he's sentenced to death, it's appealable. And it will be appealed. If the correct law was not applied (ie, the state did not prove premeditation) the jury verdict will be thrown out.

 

[AndresEscobar]

The specific intent IMO is the mode of murder. Wanting to feel the splatter of brains and blood (which IIRC is something Sam wrote about), enjoying the act of beating the life out of someone. That is the specific intent.

I think the absolute gruesomeness of the crimes cuts both ways. The fact that he took it to such insane levels might, therefore, allow him a defense to wipe away specific intent.

 

[AndresEscobar]

(respectfully snipped)

I will be SHOCKED if the defense allows the state to introduce the music Sam wrote. Any first year law student can write a motion to get that tossed. But I dont know VA law so its hard to say for sure, every state is different, thats why we have state bar exams, you have to know this stuff to try and case in any particular state.

Yeah, I agree too. The only way the music will really be allowed is if the defense somehow incorporates it into its strategy.

 

[gxm]

Hey, sorry, just getting back to this threat. Whether you agree with it or not, that's how the law works. I don't necessarily agree with how mens rea works either. It's crazy. Frustrating. It's one of the reasons why law school is one of the most stressful, infuriating things i've ever done.

Here is my explanation: there are many answers to killing people en masse, and it depends on the state and their specific statutes. Also, we have to agree to a specific set of facts before I can explain because everything is fact sensitive.

First degree or premeditated murder is a crime in every state. It requires two elements: the mens rea and the actus reas. The actus reas (or, evil act) is easy. Someone has to cause the death of another.

The mens rea (or evil mind) is harder. This is why the basic act of causing the death of another is graded into first degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter (and others, depending on the state). These grades are dependent on the level of intent.

The mens rea for first degree or premeditated murder is "malice aforethought", or basically premeditation. However, murder is a specific intent crime. Specific intent is pretty tricky. It can happen in only a couple moments, but there are also things that can erase that intent.

For instance, a husband comes home and sees his wife in bed with another man. He screams "I'm going to kill you" goes to the garage, grabs a gun, and shoots them both. In this instance, even though it looks premeditated, the intent probably isn't there for premeditated murder.

So, a person, lets call them Billy, commits a mass murder in a public location. Billy wrote poems, songs, drew pictures about killing people. This is not premeditation for his crime. However, if there were plans, hit lists, maps, bombs built, etc, that would be indicative of premeditation. The difference is specific intent. Bringing a weapon would be an instance of specific intent. Billy would have to specifically intend to go to the public area and kill people. He can't just go off in public, grab a mailbox and start beating people with it.

Also, in the instance of killing people en masse, there are probably statutes in most states defining a cime different from premeditated murder for these instances.

Sorry, but IMO since we are dealing with sequential murders over a period of days, it will be impossible for the defense to argue against premeditation. And since, as best we know, Sam used a signature murder method (bludgeoning each victim with the same maul) coupled with the flippant "Jesus made me do it" remark, it's going to be very easy for the prosecution to prove intent, deranged intent IMO but intent nonetheless.

Honestly, I think the best a defense attorney could do for Sam is to keep this case from going to trial.

 

[gxm]

I think the absolute gruesomeness of the crimes cuts both ways. The fact that he took it to such insane levels might, therefore, allow him a defense to wipe away specific intent.

The signature murder method is the specific intent. Sam enjoyed bashing people's heads in. The objective doesn't need to be person specific, the objective can be mode of murder specific.

Until we have more evidence to mull over, I'm currently of the mind that Sam was enjoying his murder spree. It was the culmination of years of fantasizing and that's why he stayed in the house and didn't run. He was having too much fun.

 

[tapu]

If there was staging, desecration, videotaping after the murders, what role would that have in Sam's trial, I wonder...?

 

[AndresEscobar]

i'm following your theory of the ifs. but, it's kind of a wonderment, since the autopsy report says that it appeared some of the victims were already asleep, an argument wouldnt have happened unless he was really into his 'fantasy' acting out his horrorcore stuff and percieved there was an argument. hope i dont sound confusing.

also, it's kind of interesting that he attacks the father too, had he known the father was coming to check on them? is there anything anywhere that says the father made contact with sam prior to going there? this is really a big wonderment on why did sam kill the dad too, unless, he was still in his 'fantasy-acting out' mode of thinking and attacked him as well....jmo

where did you read the autopsy report?

 

[AndresEscobar]

Thanks I do have Torts and Crim same time and yes, it's slightly confusing but I'm able to distinguish them much easier as time goes on. This is my very first semester so I'm a complete newbie. Also have Contracts which makes me want to stick a sharp object in my eye.

Anyway, we could say heat of passion for Emma, no premeditation because he was set off by texts and romance gone sour. Premeditation for Mel and Debra because he had to cover his tracks - backed up by the fact they may have been killed in their sleep and there was no reason for him to be mad at Debra - I'm sure she had nothing to do with the texts and she was very nice to let him come and stay at the home.

Will be interesting to know what forensics can show that help determine who was killed first and where etc. He's getting the death penalty I'm thinkin' and fyi I want to go into criminal prosecution. (If I had to sit around and look at breach of contract cases I'd seriously hate life.)

With each killing, the argument for premeditation becomes stronger. But, we still don't know the facts.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Sorry, but IMO since we are dealing with sequential murders over a period of days, it will be impossible for the defense to argue against premeditation. And since, as best we know, Sam used a signature murder method (bludgeoning each victim with the same maul) coupled with the flippant "Jesus made me do it" remark, it's going to be very easy for the prosecution to prove intent, deranged intent IMO but intent nonetheless.

Honestly, I think the best a defense attorney could do for Sam is to keep this case from going to trial.

Well, the defense will have to argue against premeditation to save Sam's life. And, while premeditation is strongest for the father, all they have to prove is he didn't premeditate three of the murders to save his life.

 

[PAXIMUS]

If there was staging, desecration, videotaping after the murders, what role would that have in Sam's trial, I wonder...?

Maybe thats why he stuck around a few days after, he was uploading videos to the whole horrorcore crowd.

Speculation of course.


Honestly I dont see a trial taking place unless they try insanity, any other defense would be irresponible if the prosecution is offering life for a confession. Of course we dont know all the facts either.