VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[AndresEscobar]

AB also had the word "Woot" in her MS name, a term used commonly among ICP fans FWIW.

Woot is also a very common, semi ironic manner in expressing pleasure. Similar to "woo-hoo".

PAX, do you have AB's myspace link? can you PM me it if it's still up?

 

[thesaint]

Some have said Bowen is one of the best CD lawyers in the state of VA...

I'm glad to hear this. NOT because I think Sam isn't guilty or want him set free but because I generally don't like the death penalty but think that its major flaw is that people have been sentenced to death row who don't belong there (for that crime).

Sam's not innocent (as far as I can tell), but for every Sam in a high profile capital punishment trial, there are a 100 others who maybe were under-represented.

I'm hoping Cary Bowen is a top-flight trial attorney who gives Sam the best possible defense...and LOSES.

 

[piXy]

AB also had the word "Woot" in her MS name, a term used commonly among ICP fans FWIW.

Actually what is used it Woop Woop not woot =)

 

[AndresEscobar]

I'm glad to hear this. NOT because I think Sam isn't guilty or want him set free but because I generally don't like the death penalty but think that its major flaw is that people have been sentenced to death row who don't belong there (for that crime).

Sam's not innocent (as far as I can tell), but for every Sam in a high profile capital punishment trial, there are a 100 others who maybe were under-represented.

I'm hoping Cary Bowen is a top-flight trial attorney who gives Sam the best possible defense...and LOSES.

eh, I don't know. There is so much we don't know about this case. There may be some mitigating factors, who knows? these were weird people. While I agree it doesn't look good for Sam, I don't think he deserves the DP. Though, i doubt he'll ever get out of whereever he goes.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Woot is also a very common, semi ironic manner in expressing pleasure. Similar to "woo-hoo".

PAX, do you have AB's myspace link? can you PM me it if it's still up?

Its no longer up.

I had a buddy who was really into ICP and was always woot this and woot that so I figured there was some connection.

I do know a lot of Juggalos take issue and say it is whoop whoop, but I also see woot woot so I dont know, not my thing.

All I know is that on some Juggalo sites they have said AB was one of them because her MS name included the word woot.

 

[thesaint]

eh, I don't know. There is so much we don't know about this case. There may be some mitigating factors, who knows? these were weird people. While I agree it doesn't look good for Sam, I don't think he deserves the DP. Though, i doubt he'll ever get out of whereever he goes.

May I ask if you're against the DP in general or just not in favor of it in this case?
(feel free to ignore this question).

I'm generally against it, but in some extraordinary cases (John Wayne Gacy comes to mind) my principles gives way to wanting this person no longer walking around breathing the same air as the rest of us.

I completely agree there is a lot we don't know about this case. And I have this feeling that there's going to be a major curve ball introduced at trial (most likely involving the time of death of one or more of the 1st 3 victims (Debra, Emma, Melanie)) which is part of the reason I'd favor trying Mark's murder separately and first.

 

[PAXIMUS]

May I ask if you're against the DP in general or just not in favor of it in this case?
(feel free to ignore this question).

I'm generally against it, but in some extraordinary cases (John Wayne Gacy comes to mind) my principles gives way to wanting this person no longer walking around breathing the same air as the rest of us.

I completely agree there is a lot we don't know about this case. And I have this feeling that there's going to be a major curve ball introduced at trial (most likely involving the time of death of one or more of the 1st 3 victims (Debra, Emma, Melanie)) which is part of the reason I'd favor trying Mark's murder separately and first.

Always against.

 

[AndresEscobar]

May I ask if you're against the DP in general or just not in favor of it in this case?
(feel free to ignore this question).

I'm generally against it, but in some extraordinary cases (John Wayne Gacy comes to mind) my principles gives way to wanting this person no longer walking around breathing the same air as the rest of us.

I completely agree there is a lot we don't know about this case. And I have this feeling that there's going to be a major curve ball introduced at trial (most likely involving the time of death of one or more of the 1st 3 victims (Debra, Emma, Melanie)) which is part of the reason I'd favor trying Mark's murder separately and first.

I agree with it in certain instances. Mostly domestic terrorism. I would say serial killers such as Gacy as well, though I'm hesitant as there has been some debate as whether Sam was a serial killer. I don't think he is one. I'm against the DP as some sort of retribution to society. People deriving pleasure from another person's suffering (regardless of how loathsome that person is) disturbs me.

 

[thesaint]

Always against.

I was raised that way (in the first state to ban the death penalty) and continued to be until I was old enough to start following and reading about some of these cases and experiencing a little, tiny, tiny, microscopic, almost undetectable bit of the horror and despair that the families/friends of the victims experience.

I appreciate the families who ask that the death penalty not be imposed and hope their wishes are respected.

But I also can see that having the individual responsible for their loved one's horrific death still walking, breathing, looking at the same moon and stars each night as they do no longer able to intrude on their thoughts that way (what's he eating tonight? what's he reading? what tv show is he watching? oh, look, my child's killer just got married in prison)--especially where the victims were many and children-...well, there but for the grace of....

I used to think it was a black and white, bright-line issue and thought ppl who supported the DP were primitive heathens. But, as with many other of my youthful beliefs, I'm no longer so certain about that.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I was raised that way (in the first state to ban the death penalty) and continued to be until I was old enough to start following and reading about some of these cases and experiencing a little, tiny, tiny, microscopic, almost undetectable bit of the horror and despair that the families/friends or the victims experience.

I appreciate the families who ask that the death penalty not be imposed and hope their wishes are respected.

But I also can see that having the individual responsible for their loved one's horrific death still walking, breathing, looking at the same moon and stars each night as they do no longer able to intrude on their thoughts that way--especially where the victims were many and children-...well, there but for the grace of....

I used to think it was a black and white issue and thought ppl who supported the DP were primitive heathens. But, as with many other of my youthful beliefs, I'm no longer so certain about that.

I cant honestly say it is about protecting life for me since I am also pro choice and support a woman's right to choose, most against the DP on the basis of protecting life are also against abortion and I am not but I dont like abortion I just feel a woman has the right to choose and therefore it should remain safe and legal.

The reason I am against the DP is that I am simply unwilling to give the state that kind of authority and power. Deep inside I am an anarchist so I really dont have a lot of good things to say about government and therefore it is very difficult for me to argue in favor of the state taking someones life much less imprisoning them, however, we dont live in a perfect world and life isnt a utopian fantasy so I have come to accept that the way I would like things to be is much different than the way things really are.

 

[thesaint]

I do not personally favor abortion but I'm pretty much on the same page as you on it in general. I can't recall her exact words, but Hillary Clinton said something during last year's campaign about how no one really supports/likes/wants abortion. I thought she nailed it. Too bad she's not our President right now (sry for the politics, but I enjoyed the 90's : ) ) .

 

[AndresEscobar]

I'd also like to edit my comment on the DP that the frequency in which juries and the courts gets DP cases wrong makes me against it.

 

[thesaint]

I'd also like to edit my comment on the DP that the frequency in which juries and the courts gets DP cases wrong makes me against it.

Yeah, that's my major complaint with it from a procedural standpoint.

Also, I recall reading an extensive study of the use of the death penalty as a "stick" in interrogations by police and prosecutors in Texas (sry Texans) to get otherwise innocent (of that crime) people to take a plea to avoid the DP. Thereby allowing the police and prosecutors to clear more cases more quickly.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I do not personally favor abortion but I'm pretty much on the same page as you on it in general. I can't recall her exact words, but Hillary Clinton said something during last year's campaign about how no one really supports/likes/wants abortion. I thought she nailed it. Too bad she's not our President right now (sry for the politics, but I enjoyed the 90's : ) ) .

I supported Hillary too. Though, I've got nothing against Obama. Generally, when I vote for a president, I pick the most logical, reasonable person.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Yeah, that's my major complaint with it from a procedural standpoint.

Also, I recall reading an extensive study of the use of the death penalty as a "stick" in interrogations by police and prosecutors in Texas (sry Texans) to get otherwise innocent (of that crime) people to take a plea to avoid the DP. Thereby allowing the police and prosecutors to clear more cases more quickly.

Yes, this is true also. I think a lot of people that like to hang their hats on "confessions" as proof that someone should be punished severely have no idea what goes on in those interrogation rooms.

 

[claudicici]

my question is...what is the death penalty really intended for?
is it really supposed to "scare" others into not commiting a crime?
is it supposed to "get rid" of the useless criminal?
is it supposed to "make the criminal suffer"?
....i kind of don't get it.....whether it's a crime of passion or you're a calculating sociopath or whatever you're not gonna think "oh I can't do this,may get the death penalty",i always think it is so much more useful to society to study someone who commited the crimes so we can learn and try to prevent stuff in the future....and yes,there are definetely some cases where I would like to make the per. suffer the most horrible tortures myself ( like in the little shanya davis case).....but we just can't think that way ......

 

[dangrsmind]

Review of Don Rimer's Farmville Lecture:

http://neopaganmusings.blogspot.com/2009/11/don-rimer-lecture.html

Another one from the Longwood Rotunda:http://media.www.therotundaonline.c...iences.With.Ritual.Crimes-3835174-page2.shtml

 

[tapu]

Review of Don Rimer's Farmville Lecture:

http://neopaganmusings.blogspot.com/2009/11/don-rimer-lecture.html

Another one from the Longwood Rotunda:http://media.www.therotundaonline.c...iences.With.Ritual.Crimes-3835174-page2.shtml

Whoa! Scary bad writing in the latter. In particular, this: McCroskey was convicted two weeks ago with six counts of premeditated murder and a single count of grand larceny.

Uh, no, he wasn't.



Oh ha ha, but ya gotta love this: Rimer has a unique life in that he lives unlike any other member of society.

 

[AndresEscobar]

http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/03/the-return-of-don-rimer.html

This is a fairly strong argument about why Don Rimer is, for lack of a better word, a tool.

 

[tapu]

Idle thought: If any horrorcore types are called to testify, or even if they're just there in the court, will they be all horrorcore'd out, in make-up and costume and all? I suppose that the answer is very different depending on whether they're on the docket or not, and on who calls them. As court observers... can you get thrown out by the judge for dressing stupid? Would it be considered prejudicial to the defendent?