VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

[Detective Klimpt]

That brief google description of Intent to Defile posted so far is not detailed enough for clear interpretation.

Here, read this attorney description written by attorneys that specialize in this type of crime.

http://srislawyer.com/virginia-criminal-defense-lawyers/abduction-intent-defile-charges-virginia-fairfax-attorneys-violation-code-18-2-48/

When I think of 'Abduction', I've always thought it was taking someone against their will. According to this site, that is not what it means. Read it and judge for yourself.

But yeah, I do think Abduction with Intent to Defile is basically misleading a girl about your intent (which was sexual) and then having some sort of sex relations with her.

According to LE, they have video or witness of Hannah and Jesse leaving the bar together. They would know if she was staggering drunk or if she was being forced.

 

[kwash]

From the Washington Post:

"Matthew was charged with “abduction with intent to defile,” a felony that in Virginia indicates that the alleged attacker kidnapped the victim with an intent to have sex with the person."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e05ae2-436f-11e4-b437-1a7368204804_story.html

This wording just made me think that the charge fits a scenario where he has told someone he got her to go with him thinking he would have sex with her (could be consensual, but the video and eyewitness accounts might indicate she wasn't in condition to give consent), and then 'something' happened (she was sick? Seizure? Unresponsive?) and he 'let her go'.

 

[Perplexed 123]

Thanks. And sorry, I missed those posts. What makes the cctv footage more significant?

because the news footage was recorded after the fact. Even if it is JM's car, what does it show? JM bought something in the shop the same day the news was filmed?

There are lots of things confusing enough about this case without adding to it. Last night, not long after the LE released the wanted poster, another one was circulating here with the charges changed to include rape and many thought that was the "official" poster and charges (not you, but misinformation just confuses further)

 

[FruitTingles]

NBC29 @NBC29
Washington Post says Jesse Matthew has hired former Albemarle County Prosecutor Jim Camblos as his attorney. #HannahGraham
11:09pm - 24 Sep 14


Since when?! :waitasec:

 

[DavidC]

i am bothered by Jesse's "road rage" encounter with that lawyer some years back. Those were some pretty serious charges Jesse was facing. Why would the prosecutor call the victim (lawyer) and ask if he would consider dropping the charges?

Then there is Jesse showing up at the police station asking for assistance in contacting a lawyer for himself. It was reported that Jesse was chatting cordially with one of the detectives while they waited for the lawyer to arrive.

These two head scratchers, taken together, lead me to wonder if Jesse was a police informant.

 

[skibaboo]

Deleted. NVM

 

[oceanblueeyes]

INTENT=INTEND?
Because you can=That you will?

That word bothers me. Intent to defile, like saying because he wants to be with her he will. idk Not saying he is or isn't guilty I just don't like it when the police can make up stuff to get or hold you. jmo idk

The police aren't making anything up. This is how the law statute reads.

What other motive would JM have for abducting Hannah? He was the last to be seen with Hannah and Hannah has not been seen alive since he abducted her (IMO).

IMO

 

[Hoosgirl]

Thanks to everyone who has been posting about the abduction/defile charges. Still trying to work out exactly what the charge is and speculate as to what evidence would have gotten the DA there. It doesn't appear to be a common charge.

Just heartbroken for Hannah and her family.

 

[Hiandmighty]

The comment about drunk and consent is correct. Drunk/inebriated/compromised people cant legally consent to sex.

 

[zapped]

This wording just made me think that the charge fits a scenario where he has told someone he got her to go with him thinking he would have sex with her (could be consensual, but the video and eyewitness accounts might indicate she wasn't in condition to give consent), and then 'something' happened (she was sick? Seizure? Unresponsive?) and he 'let her go'.

Or became enraged and struck out at her as hes done to others on at least two occasions prior to this. Given that hes been compared to Lenny in "Of Mice and Men" and the "doesnt know his own strength", it could have been far too late to make amends or apologize this time.

 

[jamicat]

It seems to me that the DA is very cautious and Longo was chomping at the bit before he could make his move on JM. Said so on MSM pretty much. So my guess is that the DA chose the charge v-e-r-y carefully as one he most probably could make stick. THat is a big concern with DAs. They have a high chance of losing their jobs if their win record is bad. So they do not like to make charges they cannot use. This is probably an underestimate of what the charges will end up being once all of the forensic reports are received, phone records analysed, more witnesses questioned (now that JM is definitely charged,friends, acquaintance will likely be more forthcoming). DAs often do up the charges as they get more evidence.

Depending on the evidence, the DA may still have an uphill fight. That office has to prove beyond reasonable dout to a jury of peers that charges are valid with innocence presumed. JM is likely not to say a thing, and it's is right to stay mum. His attorney will speak for him, likely through any trial, and if he can spin plausible alternatives, a conviction may not happen despite the circumstantial evidence. In the case of Alexis Murphy which many bring up, where a murder 1 conviction was achieved without her body, the evidence that something violent occurred with the perp was overwhelming. Hard to believe anything happened other than violence at the perp's place with perp since there was so much commingled DNA. And hard to believe that Alexis decided to just disappear and is alive with the blood and other evidence of being harmed. Plus the perp talked and was outright lying, proof positve. We don't have that scenario with JM yet, and may not. FOr one, he spoke to an attorney early into this and it seems he has not given LE any statements. He has a good lawyer who knows the Charlottevillle courts well, who was on the case early and is likely following it and has inside sources of info as well. So the DA has good reason to proceed cautiously. He may have a tough legal fight ahead of him.

 

[skibaboo]

Where is Hannah Graham? Tracking the investigation so far

http://www.c-ville.com/hannah-graham-tracking-investigation-far/#.VCLFJPldWSp

 

[Skigirl]

The comment about drunk and consent is correct. Drunk/inebriated/compromised people cant legally consent to sex.

A lot of us and our spouses and partners are in trouble!

 

[mainemom]

I have a question for those of you who have followed other cases:

If LE determines that HG was under the influence of recreational drugs (ecstacy/mdma/etc), do you think they would release that information to the public, or would they potentially withhold it out of deference to her family... not wanting to sully her character by revealing she took drugs...?

I ask because I hope that, even in the worst case scenario for HG, this tragedy could at least have the positive outcome of broadening the discussion among college-age kids about the dangers of drinking to excess and taking drugs. As the a parent of a college-age daughter, and as someone who remembers that feeling of invulnerability at that age myself, I know that most kids just don't take these dangers seriously enough. But I wonder if they'd hush up any illegal drug use? Thoughts?

(And for those of you who think that "good", smart, successful college girls don't take these sorts of drugs, I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong about that. I know several 4.0 GPA kids who attend top-tier and ivy league schools who take recreational drugs of all kinds, not just weed. It's a lot more common that you may think.)

 

[FruitTingles]

As of Tuesday afternoon, the state lab was still analyzing evidence it has received from Charlottesville police, including nearly two dozen items and eight "known samples that we would use for comparison purposes," said Jeffrey Ban, director of the Department of Forensic Science's Central Laboratory in Richmond.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/man-cha...0e9-af23-5ac7-9f23-a482e41a4151.html?mode=jqm


BBM
Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmmmmm" :thinking:

 

[Perplexed 123]

NBC29 @NBC29
Washington Post says Jesse Matthew has hired former Albemarle County Prosecutor Jim Camblos as his attorney. #HannahGraham
11:09pm - 24 Sep 14


Since when?! :waitasec:

Since Saturday, I believe

 

[Suthrnqt]

The police aren't making anything up. This is how the law statute reads.

What other motive would JM have for abducting Hannah? He was the last to be seen with Hannah and Hannah has not been seen alive since he abducted her (IMO).

IMO

Thanks button was not enough. Glad to see you posting here, Ocean. I always enjoy your common sense approach to the many cases we follow. :seeya:

 

[zapped]

NBC29 @NBC29
Washington Post says Jesse Matthew has hired former Albemarle County Prosecutor Jim Camblos as his attorney. #HannahGraham
11:09pm - 24 Sep 14
Since when?! :waitasec:

We have several defense attorneys in Richmond who are similar to this guy. Respectable win record, penchant for taking on cases and defending people many lawyers would never touch.

Some of them have illustrious records working as a prosecuting attorney just like Camblos. Im sure I am not alone in wondering what causes someone like them to start defending the suspects they used to prosecute.

When you walk into the courtroom with one of these guys, people pretty much assume you are guilty but they are often good enough to get scum like this off, many times on a technicality....and for a price...of course.

Makes JLM look even more guilty...at least in my eyes.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I hope those who have negative things to say about his tactics and emotions, are never in the position of this family. My guess is, they would change their tunes. I think he's seen and read the criticisms of him. He's working so hard, and has to look the Graham's in the face.

Well said - I have to turn the TV off when they are on because their pain is so palpable.

 

[cady]

Does anyone know exactly how many different agencies are looking for JM? I just find it hard to believe that he has not been spotted or located. That car of his sister's is fairly old, so probably not a lot of them on the road. And the plate VAC...... would be very obvious, out of state. I hope that they aren't just watching him. If they have him, arrest him, already!!!! JMO