Found Deceased VA - Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville, 17 Oct 2009 - #13

[PaulR]

Why would LE not even investigate Mrs. Pearson's allegation?

They did.

From the article:

According to police spokesperson Corinne Geller, police have “thoroughly vetted” Parson’s lead but have not found anything connecting it to Morgan’s disappearance.

Geller works for the Virginia State Police.

 

[SusanB]

PaulR, What did they do to the Pat Collins case?

 

[PaulR]

PaulR, What did they do to the Pat Collins case?

Pat was a UVa graduate student who went missing waaay back in 1986.

At the time, jurisdiction went to the University police, who basically said "yeah, he ran away" and didn't do much to investigate the case. I mean, they went through the motions, but there were a number of interesting details that the police never followed up on.

For example, he was last seen at one of the university buildings, but nobody is quite sure how he got there - his bikes and his car were both at home. There was a cigarette butt in the trash, though he didn't smoke. One of his neighbors, who was never interviewed by the police, said that she saw a frequent visitor to his apartment. So the police didn't follow that lead. Bunch of other stuff.

There is a good podcast on the subject by the reporter here:
http://www.cvillepodcast.com/2006/04/16/patrick-collins/. I still have my copies of the articles she wrote; it really got me into missing persons and cold cases, and this case has stuck with me.

 

[rickh]

it should also be remembered that the spolarick group was mistaken for MORGAN in several sightings.she was with three guys that night.

 

[Walker]

it should also be remembered that the spolarick group was mistaken for MORGAN in several sightings.she was with three guys that night.

DS was in the audience during the Metallica concert, though. She could not have been sighted at the RV lot during the time period when Metallica was playing.

 

[Walker]

The Hook is not associated with UVA. They are a town weekly.

Journalist could still have interests in UVA. If the place gets a rep for crime, money will be at stake.

Why? I'm guessing it was chilly. Why remove tights on the way to the Lawn?

Maybe she was inside somewhere for a few hours. Could be an innocent explanation: someone accidently spilled beer on them? Snagged on furniture? Or something like that?

Um, no. Nobody doubted seeing her outside of the Arena, or on Copeley Bridge which may as well be on University property.

Copeley Bridge is off-campus. They don't want a college girl to have come to a violent death as result of her presence at UVA --- because that's bad for business. Think of how much they charge in tuition and housing.

The article said she "fears that her status as a potential witness may have put her in danger as she makes her middle-of-the-night newspaper rounds." Then she goes and does an interview with a few newspapers and brags about how she can still recognize the guys who were allegedly with her.

Some people believe in going public as a defense strategy. Now if she comes to harm, the police will have a strong suspicion as to why. Maybe as to who as well.

That shouldn't stop us from speculating. There must be a reason, right?

Speculating isn't wrong in itself. We have a right to speculate when we are not given the facts. We should just not get mixed up between the two: fact and speculation. The arguments thrown against Parson are all equally speculative.

No, the other witness you quoted saw a woman matching her description with a group of men. They also said she was "wobbly"; I don't believe any of the other witnesses noted that.

MH is believed to have been drinking (JMO: she wasn't totally drunk); and she was on high heels (according to that particular witness).

Also note that one witness saw her with four guys, the other with three.

Yes. That is something to wonder about.

No offense, but I went to UVA for four years. VT is a few hours away and is the rival state college. JMU is closer, but there isn't that much socializing. The only time I saw students from JMU or VT was (a) during games and (b) if they were friends from back home.

Again, her brother had recently been graduated UVA.

I think if Morgan had friends at UVa, we would have heard about it.

She grew up in C'ville. Her parents had ties there. It would be amazing if she knew no one at all at UVA. Besides maybe she had met them just that night. Or from the internet.

Certainly the police would have interviewed them.

They probably did.

She's backtracking as far as heading away from where she ultimately wants to go. Heading towards Copeley makes sense because you are heading towards 250 which gets a decent amount of traffic, and eventually 29. Going to the Lawn? Why?

MH was probably heading to some party or beer place where there were lots of other students. Go east to one place, go west to another, go to the Lawn; all in 6 hours. Not unusual.

A girl who hasn't stepped forward? A girl she didn't know? (Otherwise she would have presumably come forward.)

Could have been a guy's jacket. And, yes, people lose a jacket or something all the time, and may not even notice. Also, at universities, there are lots of visitors: some travelling student could have loaned her a jacket, and then left & forgot about it. Or someone could have given her their roommates coat without asking. Also, she might have had a jacket in her pocketbook/backpack.

It has nothing to do with her being on UVA property because we already know she was on UVA property.

The bridge is off-campus though.

This "witness" has made some statements that make no sense. If she is enough of an artist to remember exactly what this girl looked like, she'd remember whether she had long/short hair, or that she couldn't tell. I think she threw in the bit about "being an artist" so that people would believe her; I'm betting none of the confirmed witnesses were artists, and that didn't stop them from remembering seeing her.

Parson may or may not be correct; but her statements were not senseless. Face it: MH probably did go off with some group of male UVA students who killed her.

The State Police vetted her story and apparently don't think this woman saw Morgan. The reporter didn't seem to believe her either, as you noted. There is a reason for this.

Again, LE made no statement either way. See the quote 2 pages back. Again, the reporter may be biased in the way she writes the story. Review the first post on this topic.

I'm a fan of Occam's Razor

I'm not. The simplest answer is not always best. Simple cases may have simple answers, but not every case is simple. If this case were simple, we would not be here. It would have been solved long ago.

(can you tell I was a Toolie?)

A what?

Having her get a jacket from a girl she doesn't know,

Not unusual.

getting rid of her hose,

Not unusual.

appearing with four/three guys on the other side of the campus hours later,

After being sighted with such a group earlier is not unusual. College students tend to stay out late.

with no confirmed witnesses,

Maybe LE had ten. They just don't tell the media everything.

the police and local paper discarding her story - do you see what I mean?

The media discussed it at length; though The Hook sounded more than desperate to debunk it. LE made no such statement that the Parson's story was discarded.

You have to twist the story around a lot.

I just don't see any twisting. She could very well have been partying around UVA late that night.

I'm not defending UVa

These places aren't what they used to be. Violent crime is on the rise at most colleges & universities.

 

[nostoneunturned]

just been lurking and reading the last few pages..I was hoping some new news..but I see the discussion of the sightings.
Virginia has a serial killer..I have no police posters or warnings to back this up but I know we have way too many girls reported missing and later found dead.
The newspaper person,insisted on calling attention to herself,and that worries me about her statement....many people reported seeing MH but none seemed to want the attention that this person seems to be demanding...her statements seems to be clearer now, than when she first reported the sighting.I wish she had thought about the danger involved by going to the paper and letting them report her name.....I would have reported what I saw to LE and let it go at that...I believe, she contacted the paper, stating that LE had not taken her serious and wanted a line up...she could be in real danger...
I believe ,we have a duty when we see a crime or witness some offense, to go to the authorities ..well matter of fact..if you witness an offense and don't report it ..you can be charged with accessory ...but I don't believe she should have allowed her name to be spoken so common.If we know her name,I am sure the person,struggling to not be discovered, knows her name..and that is a scary thought........
I stated long ago,my thoughts about the entities involved...reputations involved.(Campuses, towns,students,farm area,etc )The total lack of information, the most simplest information taking days and weeks to come out...really make me wonder if the people involved will ever stand trial..and sadden me with the realization that there will be no Justice for Morgan.
Evil ,truly is lurking about, seeking whom it may devour...

I still think my idea about using death row prisoners as fresh organ transplants, needs to be a law...that way ,those on death row,there time would be up, when they were cross matched with someone who deserves a chance to live with a new kidney,etc...let the convicted killer repay society with the ultimate sacrifice...it would cut down on over crowding...it would have eliminated Charles Manson...many,many years ago...
we got to find a new way to handle SO and repeat offenders and "kill" the people we put on death row!!!!
How much money has it cost to house Charles Manson?
Why,are we still paying for him...he should have been given a chance to "give back" a long time ago...
NOT Lethal Injection but Automatic Organ Donation...
all kidding aside..what are we going to do? so many deaths look at the threads on this website and these are only a few cases discussed..what about all the other ,senseless silent murders? God,Help us .. ,

 

[rickh]

DS was in the audience during the Metallica concert, though. She could not have been sighted at the RV lot during the time period when Metallica was playing.

thanks walker good point but the group was mistaken after the concert i was just making a broad band statement.that witnesses saw this group after the concert and possibly thought it was M.

 

[rickh]

just been lurking and reading the last few pages..I was hoping some new news..but I see the discussion of the sightings.
Virginia has a serial killer..I have no police posters or warnings to back this up but I know we have way too many girls reported missing and later found dead.
The newspaper person,insisted on calling attention to herself,and that worries me about her statement....many people reported seeing MH but none seemed to want the attention that this person seems to be demanding...her statements seems to be clearer now, than when she first reported the sighting.I wish she had thought about the danger involved by going to the paper and letting them report her name.....I would have reported what I saw to LE and let it go at that...I believe, she contacted the paper, stating that LE had not taken her serious and wanted a line up...she could be in real danger...
I believe ,we have a duty when we see a crime or witness some offense, to go to the authorities ..well matter of fact..if you witness an offense and don't report it ..you can be charged with accessory ...but I don't believe she should have allowed her name to be spoken so common.If we know her name,I am sure the person,struggling to not be discovered, knows her name..and that is a scary thought........
I stated long ago,my thoughts about the entities involved...reputations involved.(Campuses, towns,students,farm area,etc )The total lack of information, the most simplest information taking days and weeks to come out...really make me wonder if the people involved will ever stand trial..and sadden me with the realization that there will be no Justice for Morgan.
Evil ,truly is lurking about, seeking whom it may devour...

I still think my idea about using death row prisoners as fresh organ transplants, needs to be a law...that way ,those on death row,there time would be up, when they were cross matched with someone who deserves a chance to live with a new kidney,etc...let the convicted killer repay society with the ultimate sacrifice...it would cut down on over crowding...it would have eliminated Charles Manson...many,many years ago...
we got to find a new way to handle SO and repeat offenders and "kill" the people we put on death row!!!!
How much money has it cost to house Charles Manson?
Why,are we still paying for him...he should have been given a chance to "give back" a long time ago...
NOT Lethal Injection but Automatic Organ Donation...
all kidding aside..what are we going to do? so many deaths look at the threads on this website and these are only a few cases discussed..what about all the other ,senseless silent murders? God,Help us .. ,

GREAT IDEA.a lot of people hopefully are getting behind the idea of lifetime tracking of violent criminals.we have the technology to do this.it is not enough to know where these sos,paroled murderers etc.live.it does not stop them from hunting elsewhere.the money spent would well be worth the lives saved.imagine being able to access a system and it shows a predator has been hanging around the local park.would you let your daughter go jogging there alone.NO you wouldnt.this system would also protect non repeating criminals.the best way to protect us from the lions in the jungle is to KNOW where they are and where they hang out.i also think it would be a great deterrent to future perps knowing that they are not going to get just a slap on the wrist then turned loose to repeat there crimes.jmo

 

[PaulR]

Journalist could still have interests in UVA. If the place gets a rep for crime, money will be at stake.

OK, so why did the journalist - in the same article you quoted - say this:

It wasn’t the last time the Richmond woman saw the young blonde. After she, her husband, and friend parked near U-Hall, she says, she saw the same group of five gathered around a vehicle in the RV Lot, or Lannigan Field overflow parking lot— the spot where Morgan’s purse and phone were found and one of the last places police have officially placed her.

Here the reporter IS placing her at UVA.

"The reporter doesn't want the crime associated with UVA and is helping to cover up the story" doesn't make sense.

Maybe she was inside somewhere for a few hours. Could be an innocent explanation: someone accidently spilled beer on them? Snagged on furniture? Or something like that?

I'm not sure if women would remove their hose for such a reason.

Copeley Bridge is off-campus. They don't want a college girl to have come to a violent death as result of her presence at UVA --- because that's bad for business. Think of how much they charge in tuition and housing.

And that is why the UVA police crime statistics page notes that there was a manslaughter case on grounds in 2007?

You really think the University of Virginia is going to cover up a murder because it is "bad for business"?

Some people believe in going public as a defense strategy. Now if she comes to harm, the police will have a strong suspicion as to why. Maybe as to who as well.

Or she's making it up.

Speculating isn't wrong in itself. We have a right to speculate when we are not given the facts. We should just not get mixed up between the two: fact and speculation. The arguments thrown against Parson are all equally speculative.

There is a difference between speculating and making stuff up.

You are "speculating" that a local newspaper and UVA are helping to cover up a murder based off... what? Usually when people speculate here, they do so based off facts. You are taking the claims of one woman, who may not have seen MH, and disparaging a number of organizations.

MH is believed to have been drinking (JMO: she wasn't totally drunk); and she was on high heels (according to that particular witness).

Drinking doesn't make one automatically wobbly. She'd have to be pretty sloshed.

Again, her brother had recently been graduated UVA.

So...?

She grew up in C'ville. Her parents had ties there. It would be amazing if she knew no one at all at UVA. Besides maybe she had met them just that night. Or from the internet.

Not really. I lived in C'ville years after graduation; the only people I knew at the University was my advisor and a few students who went to grad school. Townies don't tend to interact with students.

They probably did.

The article says the police did:

a neighboring student says police interviewed him and his neighbors following Parson’s tip.

Sounds like the police did their job to me...

MH was probably heading to some party or beer place where there were lots of other students. Go east to one place, go west to another, go to the Lawn; all in 6 hours. Not unusual.

If she wanted to party, you'd head towards Rugby Road, which is where the fraternities and sororities are.

A map of the area

She could take the Copeley Bridge to Ivy (aka 250), head down 250, and head up Rugby. Very straightforward.

The Lawn ain't exactly where you go to party.

But the last thing she told her friends was that she was going to find another way home. It's more likely that she tried to hitch a ride, no? Indeed, she was last seen with her thumb out, trying to hitch a ride.

I mean, if she was going to be around for - say another few hours - she'd call her friends and say "hey, I am still in town, give me a call when the concerts over and pick me up."

Could have been a guy's jacket. And, yes, people lose a jacket or something all the time, and may not even notice.

Whenever I see a woman wearing a men's jacket, the jacket is obviously too big, especially in the sleeves. Our witness - who is also an artist - would surely have noticed that. That would stick out like a sore thumb.

Also, at universities, there are lots of visitors: some travelling student could have loaned her a jacket, and then left & forgot about it. Or someone could have given her their roommates coat without asking. Also, she might have had a jacket in her pocketbook/backpack.

I'm not sure I'd forget about my lost jacket... and how do you squeeze a jacket in a pocketbook? If it was in a backpack, it'd probably be quite wrinkly, and again, I think the artist-witness would probably have noticed that.

The bridge is off-campus though.

Look at the map. The Copeley Bridge (it runs over the railroad tracks) is all University property directly north of the Bridge, and the University owns property to the south as well. Not to mention the students who live over there.

Parson may or may not be correct; but her statements were not senseless. Face it: MH probably did go off with some group of male UVA students who killed her.

No, that is speculation and not based off confirmed sightings.

Again, LE made no statement either way. See the quote 2 pages back. Again, the reporter may be biased in the way she writes the story. Review the first post on this topic.

They're not reliable because...? You don't believe them? That's not a good reason IMHO.

I'm not. The simplest answer is not always best. Simple cases may have simple answers, but not every case is simple. If this case were simple, we would not be here. It would have been solved long ago.

It may not be the best, but it makes far more sense that someone "gave her a lift" and abducted and killed her not long after. This takes into account that she was hitchhiking, and that she didn't call her friends later.

Finding that person, well, that is a pain because they probably aren't talking and nobody saw her being picked up.

A what?

A Toolie is UVa slang for an Engineer. That's pretty basic terminology at the University.
"My brother was a four-year toolie..."

You don't know C'ville and UVA very well if you don't know that. Technically, you aren't even using the correct terminology for the campus (UVA students/faculty refer to it as the Grounds.)

(Having her get a jacket from a girl she doesn't know...)Not unusual.

Really? When was the last time you borrowed a jacket from a complete stranger? When was the last time you gave a jacket to a complete stranger?

(getting rid of her hose...)Not unusual.

I'm not female, so I can't say how frequent this is.

After being sighted with such a group earlier is not unusual. College students tend to stay out late.

She was seen with some students before the last confirmed sighting of her alone on Copeley Bridge. And the sighting you are referring to her was not confirmed.

Maybe LE had ten. They just don't tell the media everything.

We'd hear about the last confirmed sighting, though.

The media discussed it at length; though The Hook sounded more than desperate to debunk it. LE made no such statement that the Parson's story was discarded.

The Hook was won numerous awards from the state journalist association - including:

• 2006 Award for Journalistic Integrity and Community Service
• 2006 First place, in-depth or investigative reporting
• 2008 Award for Journalistic Integrity and Community Service
• Third place for general news writing (for this article on Harrington)

And the State Police DID say her story was investigated and discarded, in the very same story you criticized.

According to police spokesperson Corinne Geller, police have “thoroughly vetted” Parson’s lead but have not found anything connecting it to Morgan’s disappearance.

You are going beyond speculating, IMHO. You are spreading misleading and incorrect information about this case. You want to believe that the University is covering this up with the help of local newspaper, and apparently students as well, but I don't see any facts to support your speculation.

There are a lot of "coulds" and "maybes" in your posts. Yes, we always need a few to speculate. But your case is based entirely on "coulds" and "maybes."

Shall I summarize what you have speculated on so far?

• UVA police are covering up the case because it is "bad for business"
• Award-winning local newspaper is covering up the case for whatever motivation
• MH borrows a jacket from someone who hasn't stepped forward
• MH gets rid of her tights
• MH goes from trying to hitch a ride on Copeley Bridge, and telling her friends that she is going to find a way home, to deciding to party instead
• MH doesn't call her friends in the six hours between her last confirmed sighting on Copeley and her sighting on the Lawn
• MH knows someone at UVa who hasn't stepped forward
• MH got from Copeley Bridge all the way to the Lawn without a confirmed sighting of her

Yeah.

 

[gnomony]

Having done my share of investigative newspaper reporting over the years, I find it hard to believe that these reporters would discount a witness out of deference to UVa. If they were writing for a UVa publication, of course, the spin would be pro-UVa. No question. But for independent papers like The Hook (and I've managed a couple), controversy is MUCH better for business than deference is. If anything, a UVa connection would whet their appetites.

Was the bridge off Grounds? I don't think it matters much to UVa's reputation if something involving a student happens on Grounds or some yards (or hundreds of yards) away. It is still likely to be reported in the national media to have occurred "at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville."

Nor, frankly, will this crime do much damage to UVa's reputation at all, no matter what the outcome. I'm sure the UVa publicists all scramble to control damage, but I doubt very much that anything of this sort is going to materially affect UVa in a negative way.

 

[SusanB]

Thanks PaulR amd Walker for the banter. This is what I love about crimesleuthing!:applause:

 

[burbqueen]

PaulR, I just dont know what to say! Awesome indeed! I too don't believe this is some grand conspiracy by UVA, not to say that it has never happended at a college campus before, but IMO there isnt any proof.

I could say that MH did this or that, but its only speculation based on scant evidence or facts. If the UVA is guilty then doesnt that mean that everyone is in on it? I just don't see that kind of silence at a college campus with tons of young people who network and talk to each other and family and friends.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Walker's original reading of the Hook reporter's article was spot-on. (I'm a trained, professional reader, AKA a college English professor.) Certainly, the reporter clearly used language to indicate that the newspaper delivery person's eyewitness testimony should be taken with a grain of salt (to put it mildly).

What does that indicate? Perhaps that the reporter believes the LE version of the story, that Morgan was on the bridge, hitchhiking, and there must have met up with her killer. Perhaps that the reporter did the due diligence of reporting on the alleged sighting in the dorm by the newspaper delivery person but doesn't think the story hold water, based on what LE is saying.

But the reporter's skepticism is there for anyone to see.

 

[gnomony]

the reporter's skepticism is there for anyone to see.

Agreed, but there's a difference between skepticism and bias. In my experience, good investigative reporters approach everything with skepticism. Eventually they come to believe tried-and-true sources in law enforcement and elsewhere. But a good reporter knows that his or her best friend is skepticism and worst enemy is bias. If you tend to disbelieve elderly women, for example, or people of a certain race, or career military people, or people who drink alcohol -- whatever your bias, it never helps you get a story and often helps you wind up being wrong.

But after a bit of careful listening and research, a good reporter might conclude that a witness to a fatal house fire, for example, is mistaken, or even confabulating -- making stuff up and really believing it. So what do you do with that conclusion? The story is about the fire, not about someone's cognitive problems. The solution often is to write a fairly respectful account of what the witness is saying, but to write it in such a way that what you believe to be the truth -- that the account should be view with skepticism -- comes through.

 

[Fiercemom]

Just throwing this out there about the possible removal of hose. Personally, when I have been drinking, I have to frequent the restroom often. Maybe Morgan just got tired of pulling them up & down -- especially stuck in a parking lot where only probably portapotty or a tree on the side to use. I have been @ wedding receptions & ditched mine throwing them in the trash.

 

[SusanB]

Just throwing this out there about the possible removal of hose. Personally, when I have been drinking, I have to frequent the restroom often. Maybe Morgan just got tired of pulling them up & down -- especially stuck in a parking lot where only probably portapotty or a tree on the side to use. I have been @ wedding receptions & ditched mine throwing them in the trash.

I agree, fierce. After awhile, pantyhose are a pain in the neck. Matter of fact, I despise them when drinking or something cause it is difficult to go to restroom and have to pull them up and down.
Another possible scenario (but I hate to think of this), they got torn either during sex or during a struggle for some reason.
When I tear my hose, they have to come off.

 

[PaulR]

I'm gonna post more

Imagine you are Morgan. You just got locked out of the concert where your friends are. It's cold (46 degrees average, low of 38) and it even rained a bit. Your friends aren't going to be leaving town for a few hours. You still have your purse and cell phone.

Why I think she didn't know another UVa student (or a townie):

She would have called them. Why not? Hang out with a friend for a few hours, then catch a ride home along with the friends you came to the concert with. Call them and ask them to pick you up later.

I also think this would have come out. If she called the friend, the police would have records. We'd probably have heard about some students that she knew being questioned. Maybe not, but it sounds like something that would have started on the rumor mill and filtered to the press by now.

Why I think she wasn't too familiar with Charlottesville:

OK, so she doesn't know anyone, but JPJ isn't that far from the Barracks Road shopping center; granted, there's probably not much happening at night, but there's a Buffalo Wild Wings that may be open late. Or just head on down to The Corner - there are bars that are open late, and the White Spot is open after the bars close, well past 2am. Same thing. If she was heading towards any of these places, I think she'd let her friends know before she lost her purse and phone in Lannigan, but who is to say.

(For reference, the Corner is actually not that far from the Lawn.)

If I was young and female, the last thing I'd want to do was to try to hitch a ride with a stranger. I'm not young, and I'm a guy, and no way would I hitchhike unless I had no other choice, like if I was literally in the middle of nowhere. She wasn't, she could have asked someone "hey, where can I hang out for two hours until my friends are ready to leave?" and I would have told her about the Italian Villa, or someplace where there were other students so she wouldn't be completely bored; at least she'd be warm.

Why I don't think the murderer was a student

Honestly, it comes down to where the body was located. When I was a student, I was familiar with the Grounds of course; the Corner which is where most of the shops and bars frequented by students were; the various neighborhoods immediately around campus where students rented apartments/houses; Rugby Road (where the fraternities were.) To a lesser extent, Downtown (which is a long walk) and 29 North, which is where most of the shopping and restaurants are.

There's not much south of town. Even the dorms on the south end of Campus were kind of looked down upon, because it was a long way to main campus and there wasn't much there. I don't see much reason for most students to be heading on 29 S unless they are heading somewhere (like Lynchburg, or VA Tech.)

The police think that the killer knew the area well, and I tend to agree with their reasoning. So I don't think it was a student.

Now, it could have been a townie who later became a student, but most college kids I know want to get away from their parents. I think I knew a few students whose parents lived in town, but not many. Most students came from Northern Virginia, near DC, about 2+ hours away on 29 N.


On the call for bicyclists:
Maybe this has been discussed already, but I know the FBI were asking bicyclists if they had seen anything, since there are apparently some biking areas nearby. I wonder if the police have a reason to think a bicyclist was involved?

I'm not sure I buy the reason for the FBI asking - if Morgan's body was dumped at night, no bicyclist would be around to see her or her killer. (I'm assuming she was killed pretty quickly.) Of course no bicyclist saw her body during the time it was on the farm, and even if they did, I'm not sure what it would add to the case; I'm assuming (again) that the body had been there since the murder, or very soon thereafter. Killers generally don't move bodies unless they have a very good reason to, for good reason ("You know cops tend to notice **** like you're driving a car drenched in ******* blood." - Pulp Fiction)

IMHO I think they have reason to believe that it was a bicyclist who had been in that area regularly and was comfortable enough with it to dump the body.

Many of us have speculated on a hunter doing it for similar reasons. But they haven't made a similar plea for hunters. Just bicyclists.

"You know, I don't bike in that area, but Bob does." Now you go find Bob and see if he has an alibi...

Just a thought.

 

[Walker]

If she wanted to party, you'd head towards Rugby Road, which is where the fraternities and sororities are.

A map of the area

She could take the Copeley Bridge to Ivy (aka 250), head down 250, and head up Rugby. Very straightforward.

The Lawn ain't exactly where you go to party.

Seems to me that maybe you are looking at MH too much in terms of the stereotype of a party girl. Then, you equate all partying to frats & sororities. And conclude that MH could not be on the Lawn at about 3:00 am because all party girls go to frats & (I guess) stay the whole night.

First, MH's parents describe her as having a quiet side, and her father said that she loved nothing more than to curl up with a book. Just because a place seems relatively quiet (like the Academical Village) does not mean that she would never go there. Secondly, surely C'ville has many places outside of frats to party and enjoy live music and a beer. Thirdly, college students often do silly things after partying like going for a long walk somewhere to watch the sun rise. Travelling across the Lawn is not far-fetched.

The map is interesting.

http://www.virginia.edu/webmap/academicalVillage.html

At UVA, what do they mean by Hotel? Is that just a fancy word for dorm? And, where exactly are the frats? Are there any weird frats? Would any of the frats make a point of wearing black on certain occasions?

 

[PaulR]

Seems to me that maybe you are looking at MH too much in terms of the stereotype of a party girl. Then, you equate all partying to frats & sororities. And conclude that MH could not be on the Lawn at about 3:00 am because all party girls go to frats & (I guess) stay the whole night.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not saying she is a party girl. I'm saying that if she was going to party, or even just find some people to hang out with on a Saturday night, that's where you'd go. Or the Corner which isn't that far.

First, MH's parents describe her as having a quiet side, and her father said that she loved nothing more than to curl up with a book. Just because a place seems relatively quiet (like the Academical Village) does not mean that she would never go there. Secondly, surely C'ville has many places outside of frats to party and enjoy live music and a beer. Thirdly, college students often do silly things after partying like going for a long walk somewhere to watch the sun rise. Travelling across the Lawn is not far-fetched.

Of course she could have tried going to the university library. Clemons (sort of the undergrad library) would have been open until midnight. You can see it on this map; it's marked as building 50. It's a decent sized library. If she could be entertained with a book, she could easily have spent time there to wait for her friends to be done with the concert. I spent way too many hours there

The map is interesting.

http://www.virginia.edu/webmap/academicalVillage.html

At UVA, what do they mean by Hotel? Is that just a fancy word for dorm?

They are offices. Actually, if you click on the name, there is a pop-up describing it.

The closest to "a dorm" in that map are the little strips of buildings that connect the Pavilions. That's "The Lawn" (if you are referring to where a student is living.) I've talked about who lives there, but generally it's fairly prestigious. They're actually not very nice rooms, but it's a huge honor to live there.

And, where exactly are the frats? Are there any weird frats? Would any of the frats make a point of wearing black on certain occasions?

The fraternities and soroties are on Rugby Road. If you look at the small map on the left, you'll see it - directly north-northwest of the Rotunda/Lawn area. The frat area proper starts a few blocks away.

There are a few that aren't there - there is (perhaps was, this was a while ago) one close to the southwest end of campus, not far from Scott Stadium, where football games are played. I also recall that the chemistry fraternity AXE wasn't on Rugby.

I don't remember any weird frats, but I never got into frat life. Some got into trouble (underage drinking, pranks, etc.) but that's normal. Honestly, I don't know, and if any wore black, I don't know either.