Found Deceased VA - Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville, 17 Oct 2009 - #13

[Walker]

MH did not seem to have had too much luck that night.

First, something seems to have gone wrong with the companions.

Secondly, she has a bad interaction with the middle-aged guy who claims he kicked her. Other bad interactions occurred.

Thirdly, group 1 (apparently) abandons her.

Fourth, group 2 offers no help.

Fifth, someone abducts and kills her.

That's at least 10 people.

 

[Calliope]

In the backpack.

It was a back-pack style purse. And from what I've gathered, not very big.

 

[LogicalMinds]

I think it was MH who kicked the "middle aged" guy right?

things went wrong for her that night..horribly wrong

however, I remain fixed on the simplest solution

she got outside (by mistake..or maybe to "buy" something)..she was "impaired", she was already angry perhaps about falling, cutting her face, angry that she coudl not get back in
she called the "friends" one time...they suggested various ways to get in, and maybe she tried these with no luck, she texted a friend and then ? nothing..cause

her battery was KNOWN to fall out..and I think it did, phone useless...she wanders around interacts with people and then

....I think she took a ride from someone who seemed "cool" to her, slightly known, knew people she knows, or places she goes....

and from there things went horribly wrong...the guy she met up with was a real creep, although he most likely looks nice and normal, probably "cute"

SO MANY OTHER THEORIES HERE REMIND ME OF RUBE GOLDBERG CARTOONS>..like the ones where these really complicated crazy machines do all these crazy things just for a simple task??

for instance...I think the idea that some one "stalked" or "targeted" Morgan is not practical...how would a stalker "know" that she would end up outside, away from her friends, why follow 60 miles to a large auditorium where even finding her at all would be ridiculous?? Just not happening for me

Morgan lived in an off campus apt, a stalker would have targeted her there

Again I strongly feel this was a series of bad luck, bad decisions and meeting up with a very very bad man

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Because "shorter" is a comparative term, it isn't clear unless the witness says "shorter" than whom? And we can't rule out the basketball players based on this statement; they don't necessarily move in a herd, for one thing, and for another, they almost certainly have friends who AREN'T players and may be short, tall and in between.

The basketball players are the one identifiable group involved, that is, the one group where LE has names and someone to interview. Do I understand correctly that they have been cleared? As a group? As individuals? Or not?

As to why a group might have just "left" her there, perhaps she approached them asking for something in particular. A ride? The group might not have had a vehicle or might have been going the wrong direction. Drugs or alcohol? If approached for something illegal or ill-advised (e.g., open containers in a parking lot or giving an intoxicated person more alcohol), either group might have passed on that. Certainly, the basketball players would lose their scholarship if caught doing something that stupid in public. Or maybe she was visibly upset or out of control, which can make people uncomfortable. Think of it this way: most sober women would not approach a group of men they didn't know. We would, in the usual situation, give a group of young men credit for not taking advantage of her. And she might have been too combative to "talk sense to." The first group might have "walked" her to the lot where she could look for friends to talk to or ride with. That she didn't leave with them (as with Natalee Holloway and Joran van der Sloot and his buddies) suggests that they were NOT "up to no good," at least at that point.

Face it: we just don't know what she talked to these people about or what she said. And LE does, at least in some cases.

 

[ThePhantom]

Excellent summation, LogicalMinds. I have always felt the same. There are many bad people who are always looking for just the right opportunity to seize their prey. Often times they are hiding in plain sight. BTK did it for 30 years, and Ted Bundy pulled it off for several years himself. No special talent necessary, just look for the chance to attack and take it. Young people are an expecially vulnerable population because they are so trusting and just can't believe the evil their parents told them about is true after all. A teenager I know rolls her eyes at me and says, "I know, I know -- nag, nag, nag." She has no idea what I'm talking about because it's hard when you're a young person to fathom exactly the kind of evil we're talking about. Sometimes it takes additional years of life experience to fully grasp the magnitude of darkness contained within life. The same qualities I love about our youth -- hope, optimism, invincibility, bravado -- are the same qualities that make them perfect targets for the many sick, ugly minded souls that roam our planet posing as humans.

 

[Calliope]

I think it was MH who kicked the "middle aged" guy right?

things went wrong for her that night..horribly wrong

however, I remain fixed on the simplest solution

she got outside (by mistake..or maybe to "buy" something)..she was "impaired", she was already angry perhaps about falling, cutting her face, angry that she coudl not get back in
she called the "friends" one time...they suggested various ways to get in, and maybe she tried these with no luck, she texted a friend and then ? nothing..cause

her battery was KNOWN to fall out..and I think it did, phone useless...she wanders around interacts with people and then

....I think she took a ride from someone who seemed "cool" to her, slightly known, knew people she knows, or places she goes....

and from there things went horribly wrong...the guy she met up with was a real creep, although he most likely looks nice and normal, probably "cute"

SO MANY OTHER THEORIES HERE REMIND ME OF RUBE GOLDBERG CARTOONS>..like the ones where these really complicated crazy machines do all these crazy things just for a simple task??

for instance...I think the idea that some one "stalked" or "targeted" Morgan is not practical...how would a stalker "know" that she would end up outside, away from her friends, why follow 60 miles to a large auditorium where even finding her at all would be ridiculous?? Just not happening for me

Morgan lived in an off campus apt, a stalker would have targeted her there

Again I strongly feel this was a series of bad luck, bad decisions and meeting up with a very very bad man

How would he know that?

 

[Calliope]

Stalker or not, I think she was targeted at least in the sense that he went to the area looking for a victim. I don't believe it was a case of an "accident" of some sort and then the perp(s) panicking. I think his intention from the start was to rape and then murder (or incapacitate / leave for dead) his victim. As far as being a stalker, I think he's used online networking, chat groups, etc. to meet women; and at the very least he's been overly-persistent with women he's met online. I don't believe it's his first crime against women, and that he's escalated these acts to the point where Morgan may have been his first kill. But if he's not caught, she won't be his last.

Food for thought: http://www.harfordmedlegal.typepad.com/forensics_talk/profiling_rapists.html

 

[gnomony]

SO MANY OTHER THEORIES HERE REMIND ME OF RUBE GOLDBERG CARTOONS

Question: Why is LE looking the other way when Mr. Goldberg is so obviously involved? (Hint: could it have to do with protecting UVa's investments in African gold mines?)

LOL

 

[Calliope]

Ignoring possibilities because they're "complex" could well lead them to overlook something very important (whether the abduction/murder itself was complex).

 

[PaulR]

Think of it this way: most sober women would not approach a group of men they didn't know.

True. I'm curious to know if the basketball players were in their uniforms. If so - I can see why MH would feel more comfortable approaching them.

FYI - I was the one who mentioned the basketball players being "cleared." The Hook article mentions that they were talked to by police, and nothing has been mentioned as any of them being POI. They haven't been identified by name, even. By all accounts, the police are treating them as witnesses only.


One thing I want to come back to is the story about MH and the guy outside the Arena - first grabbing him and saying "let's go", then kicking him.

She may have kicked someone else, who did not appreciate being kicked.
She may have said "let's go" to the wrong person.

I'm not convinced that this wasn't a crime of opportunity. Had someone walked up to Ted Bundy and grabbed his arm like that, he would not have declined.

 

[Calliope]

True. I'm curious to know if the basketball players were in their uniforms. If so - I can see why MH would feel more comfortable approaching them.

FYI - I was the one who mentioned the basketball players being "cleared." The Hook article mentions that they were talked to by police, and nothing has been mentioned as any of them being POI. They haven't been identified by name, even. By all accounts, the police are treating them as witnesses only.


One thing I want to come back to is the story about MH and the guy outside the Arena - first grabbing him and saying "let's go", then kicking him.

She may have kicked someone else, who did not appreciate being kicked.
She may have said "let's go" to the wrong person.

I'm not convinced that this wasn't a crime of opportunity. Had someone walked up to Ted Bundy and grabbed his arm like that, he would not have declined.

I don't know. I don't think a Ted Bundy type would relinquish any control to his victim.

 

[rickh]

[Qwere in their unifoUOTE=PaulR;4893638]True. I'm curious to know if the basketball players rms. If so - I can see why MH would feel more comfortable approaching them.

FYI - I was the one who mentioned the basketball players being "cleared." The Hook article mentions that they were talked to by police, and nothing has been mentioned as any of them being POI. They haven't been identified by name, even. By all accounts, the police are treating them as witnesses only.


One thing I want to come back to is the story about MH and the guy outside the Arena - first grabbing him and saying "let's go", then kicking him.

She may have kicked someone else, who did not appreciate being kicked.
She may have said "let's go" to the wrong person.

I'm not convinced that this wasn't a crime of opportunity. Had someone walked up to Ted Bundy and grabbed his arm like that, he would not have declined.[/QUOTE]it was said the basketball players were having practice at the old facility.with temps in the forties i would assume the would have had on sweats.etc.after leaving a practice.jmo

 

[Harmony 2]

It was a back-pack style purse. And from what I've gathered, not very big.

BBM
Where was her purse found? It appears that would be the point of contact and abduction... TIA

 

[Calliope]

BBM
Where was her purse found? It appears that would be the point of contact and abduction... TIA

Lannigan field lot.

http://www.roanoke.com/datasphere/wb/224154

Timeline and map.

 

[rickh]

well we have posted a lot of theories here and they all have been good ones.i just cant buy into this being a random abduction.the main reason being that she just wandered out of the arena.there was a reason she went outside.possibly from a preplanned meeting inside that her friends knew nothing about.i just believe she had interaction with her killer/s before the concert or before metallica came on.looking at the arena the doors are glass you can see outside unlike here at our civic center where a lot of one way exit doors are solid.she could have been coaxed outside by someone that was supposed to meet her inside.i also believe its not that hard to find someone at a concert if you know they are there i have done it many times.especially if i had an idea where they might be sitting.i think it would have been a good opp for someone that had a fixation on Morgan that maybe she didnt know about or did to carry out a plan.i can easily see this as being an old friend/murderer.

 

[PaulR]

well we have posted a lot of theories here and they all have been good ones.i just cant buy into this being a random abduction.the main reason being that she just wandered out of the arena.there was a reason she went outside.possibly from a preplanned meeting inside that her friends knew nothing about.i just believe she had interaction with her killer/s before the concert or before metallica came on.looking at the arena the doors are glass you can see outside unlike here at our civic center where a lot of one way exit doors are solid.she could have been coaxed outside by someone that was supposed to meet her inside.i also believe its not that hard to find someone at a concert if you know they are there i have done it many times.especially if i had an idea where they might be sitting.i think it would have been a good opp for someone that had a fixation on Morgan that maybe she didnt know about or did to carry out a plan.i can easily see this as being an old friend/murderer.

I don't think there is a reason she went outside - she either got lost or went to get some fresh air. She had no reason to believe she couldn't get back in, tried to get back in, and then called her friends about it. That she was probably somehow impaired didn't help matters.

I agree with LogicalMinds, if someone she knew wanted to abduct her, they would have done it back in her off-campus apartment.

I don't know. I don't think a Ted Bundy type would relinquish any control to his victim.

I don't mean him relinquishing control - I mean he'd think "victim" and soon would take control of the situation.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

True. I'm curious to know if the basketball players were in their uniforms. If so - I can see why MH would feel more comfortable approaching them.

1. Basketball players would not be wearing uniforms outside of their arena. However, they could have been wearing some kind of gear that identified them as players--jackets, team sweats, etc. I've spent most of my life around basketball players; they are not all that hard to identify, actually, even in regular clothes. It's not just their height; it's the way the move and walk. Someone who spent a lot of time on campus (students, etc.) might recognize the general demeanor.

2. Regarding someone just taking a woman's arm and walking off with her. Remember the video of Carly Brucia's kidnapping? That's exactly what happened.

 

[Tink56]

Not sure if anyone saw the blog update I mentioned

From Me To You - Then From You To Me -Jewelry

Note - minus the quote part, just putting the link back..

.

Thank you for linking the Find Morgan blog by mother. I'm wiping tears from my eyes as I type this. Although her pain is palpable so is her faith and love.

She must be an absolutely amazing individual. She has the qualities that I would love in a friend.

 

[rickh]

I don't think there is a reason she went outside - she either got lost or went to get some fresh air. She had no reason to believe she couldn't get back in, tried to get back in, and then called her friends about it. That she was probably somehow impaired didn't help matters.

I agree with LogicalMinds, if someone she knew wanted to abduct her, they would have done it back in her off-campus apartment.



I don't mean him relinquishing control - I mean he'd think "victim" and soon would take control of the situation.

thanks paulr i just find it hard to believe that someone would have tickets posted on the fridge for 6 months which i am assuming had printed on them NO REENTRY with same ticket or something similiar.i am assuming it would have been posted on the doors.and according to jpj patrons are told if they exit there is no readmission.so M waits 6 months for this concert drives 3 hrs to get there then just walks outside RIGHT before metallica to get fresh air or lost im sorry i dont buy it.unless she was REALLY out of it.i would like to add that maybe this old friend or whomever didnt plan an abduction or murder maybe it just ended that way.jmo

 

[part time prof]

thanks paulr i just find it hard to believe that someone would have tickets posted on the fridge for 6 months which i am assuming had printed on them NO REENTRY with same ticket or something similiar.i am assuming it would have been posted on the doors.and according to jpj patrons are told if they exit there is no readmission.so M waits 6 months for this concert drives 3 hrs to get there then just walks outside RIGHT before metallica to get fresh air or lost im sorry i dont buy it.unless she was REALLY out of it.i would like to add that maybe this old friend or whomever didnt plan an abduction or murder maybe it just ended that way.jmo

Here are some ways Morgan may have left JPJ inadvertently that would not be inconsistent with being a Metallica fan and awaiting the concert for months, ranked kind of by my estimation of how likely:

1. Misunderstood where the smoking area was (or, less likely, imho, where the restrooms were), maybe even mis-directed (or so she thought) by a security guard, or pointed outside to get cell phone reception..."you can only get reception outside," e.g. (with her subsequent anger being directed at having been so directed by an "official")

2. If an announcement was made to "go outside and get some fresh air" (as was reported for a more recent JPJ concert), and she didn't realize the no re-entry policy; again, anger could be at the "official announcement"

3. She needed to get outside quickly, due to nausea or other physical reaction (could have been caused by drinking, smoking for the first time in awhile, head injury, etc.), and ignored any posted or spoken warnings in her haste

4. Ignored posted or spoken warnings to go outside for whatever reason, and thought that she'd be able to get back in (note, I don't think she was getting anything from her car, if indeed the DD still had the keys, unless she forgot she didn't have them)

5. Was lured outside with some promise, and was told she'd get back in a different way (e.g., backstage pass to meet the band)

6. Left to meet someone, ignoring the Metallica show

In my own opinion, #5 and #6 are the least likely (though plausible), because she was reportedly not seen with anyone in particular right around the arena in the 8:20 - 8:48 time frame, and she tried to get back in fairly quickly, then went walking away from there.

If she was "stood up" in either scenario, then the walking may have been purposive, I agree, but why the interactions first with the four guys, then the basketball players, moving increasingly away from JPJ (and with no calls/texts to set up a meeting place)?

Of course, #5 and #6 more neatly point toward who might have done this than the happenstance of Morgan's getting barred by mistake from JPJ and then coming to harm.