VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #3 *Arrests*

[strawberry]

I believe you meant NL? Not NK = Natalie Keepers?





You're right, it would have been a very bloody crime. I hope LE have found and collected DE's and NK's clothes. The car should yield a lot of evidence too unless he (or they) killed her outside of the car and then wrapped her in a plastic sheet before putting her in the trunk.

I guess LE were looking for blood when they combed through the empty lot next to the shooting range.




bbm
Noticeable gas production during decomposition only occurs after days, if not weeks (if in a cold environment).


Another question: are verbatim court transcripts from NK's bond hearing to be made public?

Yes thanks


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[Inthedetails]

IMO -
Some theories.

IF NK had a boyfriend, and she was close to DE, is it plausible she tried to set him up with someone? Is it plausible she catfishes NL into meeting with DE? We have Instagram "evidence" that might point to DE and NL communicating in late November early December. Could NK set the two up, not knowing NL's real age? Hoping to find someone for DE so he would stop hitting on her? Maybe she didn't like him in terms of dating but enjoyed him as a friend and confidant.

Also - some ***rumors*** stating that NL was having relations with other students on campus. Is it possible that she told DE she might be pregnant and he then heeded the help of NK to murder NL so he wouldn't have to worry about if she was pregnant or not? If she was.. Might not have belonged to DE but he wasn't aware of her relations with other students so he assumed, by default, it was his? And had to do something about it?

Were the two suspects interested and fascinated with Making a murderer? Did they want to murder someone and try to beat the system?

This is all in my opinion only as I try to put together a stronger motive.

Time will tell.

I'm not going for the pregnancy angle with Nicole. While she "could" get pregnant, I suppose, she still was very young...and I'm thinking she might not even know if she were pregnant. It's not like 13 year olds necessarily have regular cycles and she just might not even be that in-tune to her body to know if she were pregnant until it was really noticeable. If she was noticeably pregnant in January, that puts the time of conception a few months ago. I don't think it fits the timeline.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think she was claiming to be PG.

If she were trying to expose the relationship with DE (which I am not really buying just yet), I think it was either she was excited to tell people about him - which he didn't want - or, he was asking her to do things she knew were inappropriate - like take photos perhaps or get together with NK.

At this point, however, I'm not thinking Nicole had any input into the relationship other than pure eagerness to be with DE. I don't think she was threatening anything. My thoughts are leaning that NK lured her in, not DE, and Nicole was completely innocent of knowing she was being cruelly played.

JMO at the moment, opinion subject to change as we learn more.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm not going for the pregnancy angle with Nicole. While she "could" get pregnant, I suppose, she still was very young...and I'm thinking she might not even know if she were pregnant. It's not like 13 year olds necessarily have regular cycles and she just might not even be that in-tune to her body to know if she were pregnant until it was really noticeable. If she was noticeably pregnant in January, that puts the time of conception a few months ago. I don't think it fits the timeline.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think she was claiming to be PG.

If she were trying to expose the relationship with DE (which I am not really buying just yet), I think it was either she was excited to tell people about him - which he didn't want - Or, he was asking her to do things she knew was inappropriate - like take photos perhaps or get together with NK.

At this point, however, I'm not thinking Nicole had any input into the relationship other than pure eagerness to be with DE. I don't think she was threatening anything. My thoughts are leaning that NK lured her in, not DE, and Nicole was completely innocent of knowing she was being cruelly played.

JMO at the moment, opinion subject to change as we learn more.

:goodpost: :tyou: What was with the description of the "side hug" DE gave Nicole? Kind of reminds me of the Duggars and you just do side-hugs while you're dating. Ugh! Anyway, I am giving Nicole the benefit of being really naïve and innocent. JMO!

 

[aspyingmachine]

She might not have been pregnant but maybe she mentioned it or the possibility. It's hard to say. IMO, of course.

 

[aspyingmachine]

I live in SWVA on the other side of Blacksburg. I drove by Craig Creek Rd just yesterday coming back from WV. There are two ways they could have went - 460 to 77 thru Princeton/Bluefield to end up in Wytheville or they could have taken 460 to 81 and 81 to Wytheville to make the I-77 connection. Christiansburg Walmart would be going the 460/81 way and not thru Princeton. Most is interstate if they went 81. It's a long stretch of road either way they went so they would have plenty of area to throw cell phones out the window. On my way to WV on Tuesday, I saw several police at various points of 460 right in front of VT canvassing the medians and sides of the road - likely looking for the phones.

Wondering how exactly they knew where to find NL. I don't think NK was that rehearsed with the area - they must have had some kind of tower pings or gps to follow their tracks.

Jmho.

 

[Bootsctr]

She might not have been pregnant but maybe she mentioned it or the possibility. It's hard to say. IMO, of course.

True, and Keepers may spill the beans if Nicole did say something about it.

 

[aspyingmachine]

I don't know if they would have went thru town to get to CBurg Walmart with NL's body in the trunk. I am thinking they went to CB Walmart first, which camera footage or atm transactions would show.. Then to NL's house, then to CCR, murder occurred, then immediately left CCR heading east on 460... Eventually ending up in 81?

For them to ride thru Blacksburg with NL in the trunk would take some serious courage because from CCR on 460 to the 460 bypass to 81 is risky. Makes me wonder if they went thru Princeton WV instead. It's so hard to say but footage from Walmart and atm card receipts will likely paint a better picture. Unless they used cash.. But Walmart will still have the footage.

 

[Kie green]

IMO -
Some theories.

IF NK had a boyfriend, and she was close to DE, is it plausible she tried to set him up with someone? Is it plausible she catfishes NL into meeting with DE? We have Instagram "evidence" that might point to DE and NL communicating in late November early December. Could NK set the two up, not knowing NL's real age? Hoping to find someone for DE so he would stop hitting on her? Maybe she didn't like him in terms of dating but enjoyed him as a friend and confidant.

Also - some ***rumors*** stating that NL was having relations with other students on campus. Is it possible that she told DE she might be pregnant and he then heeded the help of NK to murder NL so he wouldn't have to worry about if she was pregnant or not? If she was.. Might not have belonged to DE but he wasn't aware of her relations with other students so he assumed, by default, it was his? And had to do something about it?

Were the two suspects interested and fascinated with Making a murderer? Did they want to murder someone and try to beat the system?

This is all in my opinion only as I try to put together a stronger motive.

Time will tell.

Have one of my own...What if NK did have a boyfriend. DE has not said anything that has gone public. What if the statement DE made about "the truth will set me free" is really what he thinks will happen. What if there is a third person involved who actually committed the murder. Mean while NK is blaming DE. DE may blame her.

The making of a murderer is as good of a theory as any. What could cause two seeming good kids to snap? Trying to emulate how a perfect crime might play out by leaving the very person who committed the crime out of every scenario.

 

[aspyingmachine]

I don't think there is a third suspect.. Could be, but I'm not getting that vibe.

I'm wondering how NK remembered the location of the body. She isn't from the area and doesn't have family here. I also don't think Lowgap was their intended dump site. I think they panicked after having her in the car for so long. Maybe driving by LE performing a traffic stop spooked them.

 

[Kie green]

I'm thinking the little girl was looking for someone to hold hands with, a first kiss maybe. I seriously doubt she had aspirations to have sex. I certainly didn't at 13.

 

[JanetElaine]

About the talk of DE having only a public defender...it may be more of the case that his parents are searching for the best possible firm for him, which may take some time given the severity of the case. I personally would not know where to begin to find a capable, qualified attorney for a high profile serious charge as this. Lord, I hope I never have to be in their position.

I imagine they have a month before he has to go to court again? Did I read somewhere that his next court appearance is in March? I could be wrong.

You don't just get to say "oh hey, I'm going to need some time shopping for a great attorney, just do me a court appointed one for now". Only indigent people qualify for a court appointed attorney and from what I've read, Virginia is pretty strict with the financial guidelines.

The only link for Montgomery county I could find was from a commercial firm and I did not want to risk it being deleted, so I'm posting this info for Fairfax county instead. The information in it is the same as the info from the private firm about Montgomery county.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/courts/gdc/court-services/court-appointed-attorney-services.htm

So as of right now, DE's parents are not footing the bill. Either because they have chosen not to, or because they can't afford it.

The age of majority in Virginia is 18, so parental liability doesn't come into play and they're not obligated to pay for his legal counsel. If they do, and they might down the road if they so choose, it would be a favor from them to DE.

That said, the court appointed attorney DE has is apparently a very good one, as local posters here have said. So DE lucked out with that and he might not even want to switch.

 

[aspyingmachine]

She was in middle school. She could have been having health class teaching sex Ed. Maybe she had a friend at school who had already engaged in that activity.. Maybe she thought that by allowing a guy to be romantically involved with her would make him give her the attention she was desperately seeking.. All in my opinion only.

 

[aspyingmachine]

If NL was using KIK.. It's unfortunately likely many men and prospects were communicating with her inappropriately. I think she was equating their behavior with attention and love.. And I think it took a horribly wrong turn for her.

May she truly rest in peace, eternally at thirteen.
This is such a tragedy.

 

[aspyingmachine]

I will say that I believe swift justice is coming for this girl. MontCo won't take this case lightly.

I'm thinking NK's charges will be upgraded.

 

[JanetElaine]

Thanks for posting, that was pretty interesting to me. It doesn't seem like they did anything to hide the body (why did they need a shovel). I wonder if they discovered the ground was too hard from all the cold weather and snow, and they just threw her out of the trunk. It also doesn't sound like they covered her with anything (no leaves, sticks, dirt, nothing), almost as if they wanted her to be found. And I agree with the sheriff, why not make a little more effort, walk 50 more feet and hide her down that hill???

bbm

That video was very enlightening. I personally think they got the shovel because they planned to bury Nicole and then indeed found out the ground was too hard - BUT I think they didn't try that at the spot where they eventually left Nicole.

I think they tried somewhere else, and when that didn't work they went on their little drive because DE remembered an area near his family that would be a good hiding place.

Possibly they hoped Nicole's body would roll further and go over the hill, but it didn't, and they wanted to get out of there asap so they hoped for the 'best' of her not being found...

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm thinking the little girl was looking for someone to hold hands with, a first kiss maybe. I seriously doubt she had aspirations to have sex. I certainly didn't at 13.

Yeah, that's what I think too. I can see her wanting to hold hands. She knew better than to send nude photos of herself, so I think she just wanted a boyfriend and someone to hold her hand. Her youth pastor was with Nicole's mother at the PC. He may have stressed abstinence and restraint (not that stressing abstinence is going to work), but surprisingly I do think some kids do choose to abstain from sex as long as possible. Lots of peer pressure to have sex! I do admire the kids who choose not to have sex.

 

[aspyingmachine]

Yeah, that's what I think too. I can see her wanting to hold hands. She knew better than to send nude photos of herself, so I think she just wanted a boyfriend and someone to hold her hand. Her youth pastor was with Nicole's mother at the PC. He may have stressed abstinence and restraint (not that stressing abstinence is going to work), but surprisingly I do think some kids do choose to abstain from sex as long as possible. Lots of peer pressure to have sex! I do admire the kids who choose not to have sex.

A lady who I used to work with, her son and NL were very close almost "boyfriend and girlfriend" for a while. She even mentions him on some of her old SM posts.

I think, unfortunately, she used the dark web to garner some sort of attention. She was in the FB group and I don't think she was in the group to look for someone to hold hands with.

This case is very disturbing and terribly sad.

 

[Gyppers]

That video was absolutely heart wrenching. Rest in peace Nicole. May your murderer's rot in the depths of hell.

 

[Bootsctr]

A lady who I used to work with, her son and NL were very close almost "boyfriend and girlfriend" for a while. She even mentions him on some of her old SM posts.

I think, unfortunately, she used the dark web to garner some sort of attention. She was in the FB group and I don't think she was in the group to look for someone to hold hands with.

This case is very disturbing and terribly sad.

Oh yes, that is very sad and with a very tragic ending. Just hoping Nicole's case makes kids and parents even more aware of how dangerous the internet can be in seeking attention.

 

[eucalyptuz]

So as of right now, DE's parents are not footing the bill. Either because they have chosen not to, or because they can't afford it.

The age of majority in Virginia is 18, so parental liability doesn't come into play and they're not obligated to pay for his legal counsel. If they do, and they might down the road if they so choose, it would be a favor from them to DE.

(...snipped with respect)

I think this is key. We saw DE's father in that clip about his track success - he was wearing a team jersey, perhaps a volunteer coach? I think this is a family that has had a rude awakening. And as DE is an adult in the eyes of the law, perhaps his family want him to stand on his own two feet. Are his parents obligated to foot the bill? Or is he judged as being eligible for a court-appointed lawyer based on his(and only his) income/ability to pay?
As it stands it looks like an attention-seeking lawyer has attached themselves to a high profile case, pro bono. Perhaps it's a hand well-played by the defense?