VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #3 *Arrests*

[IHAVENOCLUE]

If she has medical issues, then the jail is responsible to make sure she gets adequate care. Allergies, unless they produce anaphylaxis, probably won't be treated with desensitizing shots or allergy protection mattresses. If she has genuine gluten allergies, then I am sure they would provide her with gluten-free foods based on medical need. That said, I believe she might have a dust mite allergy that makes her congested but it is not something that needs accommodation. Additionally, she probably feels better gluten-free but has no documented medical documents that corroborate that she is made ill by gluten.

I would be destroyed if this were my child. And, I would damn sure make an effort to make a public statement to the family of my child's victim without jeopardizing my child's defense.

I hate that neither family has acknowledged Nicole's family.

BBM

Yes, THIS!!!

I wonder if/when/how the parents of the perps will address the poor victim's poor parents...

:waitasec:

 

[strawberry]

BIB :hilarious: I love you strawberry!

Hola Chiquita!!

 

[strawberry]

Honestly, though, high achiever? A 3.29 GPA isn't that good. Not at all. The fact that she was in the top 15% of her class with that GPA kind of astounds me. I'm from Northern Virginia and if you want to be in the top 15% you need to have a 3.8, minimum.

Same here. 3.25 is good but not even NHS qualifying. We have national merit kids going to MIT. They I would call brilliant. A long long time ago I had a 3.6 and I don't think I was even in the top 20%.

 

[wgram]

Sorry..I'm cathching up on this thread abd just freaking out over here...
Did NK's family give any type of statement expressing their condolences to Nicole's family?!!
Please tell they did and I just missed it...PLEASE!!

I know, right? I want to hear that too

 

[Skigirl]

Glad you brought it up, I didn't want to be the one. I was seriously surprised reading that NK only had a 3.29 GPA. And I admit my next thought was that her high school can't have been all that good if that put her in the top 15%. That GPA doesn't even land you in the top 50% at our high school here and that's just a regular ol' school.

My oldest is a senior in high school and headed to a pretty highly commended college, for aerospace engineering. The acceptance was for the actual school of engineering. You wouldn't even make it into the school of engineering there with that GPA. The university has other engineering programs but those go through the college of arts and sciences which you'd end up in with a 3.29. Then when you establish a good enough GPA at that college, you can request transfer to the school of engineering. I guess VT doesn't work that way? I'll have to check, I'm curious now.

I actually think that a school that has top 15% students with a 3.29 average is probably more -- not less -- rigorous (i.e., has less grade inflation) than one in which students have to have a 3.8. In a normal distribution, where mean = median = mode, half should be above the average and half should be below. Top 15% is 2.5 standard deviations above the mean, so a low GPA at that rank should mean that the average grade is lower and that the grading is stricter. Since grades are determined within a single school (generally) and not by some external, validated standard, what says more is a student's class standing. If she was in the top 15%, she was a good student, in my book. Most university admissions staffs at competitive schools are familiar with individual high schools and how inflated or not their grades are, so they take into account what school a student attended when they evaluate class standing, course difficulty, and GPA.

 

[Pseudonymph]

I don't understand why this is not first degreee murder for both.

Maybe she has an alibi.

 

[wgram]

This is what is most puzzling to me. No reports of any cars being seized, but I don't know if that is because VA is asking media to keep quiet on that while the investigation is ongoing?

Forgive me, but there was another poster from thread 2 that was extremely familiar with the area that said you would not need a car, but could walk from NL's apartment to DE's dorm. Perhaps they met somewhere inbetween on foot?

DE admitted to being there and said he gave her a side hug.. (yeah right) and then went to NK's dorm room. Where this girl lived is within walking distance but I doubt they walked. He had a Lexus and that was said to have been the mode of transport of the body.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I'm thinking that they sought this attention and are enjoying it JMO

That is how I am viewing this at the moment, too...


Considering they are revealing so much information...

keeping evidence in close proximity....

I feel like they secretly wished to be caught... consciously or not....

JMO...

 

[Night-owl]

I actually think that a school that has top 15% students with a 3.29 average is probably more -- not less -- rigorous (i.e., has less grade inflation) than one in which students have to have a 3.8. In a normal distribution, where mean = median = mode, half should be above the average and half should be below. Top 15% is 2.5 standard deviations above the mean, so a low GPA at that rank should mean that the average grade is lower and that the grading is stricter. Since grades are determined within a single school (generally) and not by some external, validated standard, what says more is a student's class standing. If she was in the top 15%, she was a good student, in my book. Most university admissions staffs at competitive schools are familiar with individual high schools and how inflated or not their grades are, so they take into account what school a student attended when they evaluate class standing, course difficulty, and GPA.

Not sure what kind of weight would be placed on HS grades compared to SAT or other standardized scores. There certainly are some high schools where "everyone is above average".

 

[pappa rob]

Hola Chiquita!!

Let's not get fruity now..

 

[Deleted member 110058]

i don't think nk had a psychotic episode. Unless she planned it.

i agree!!

 

[fannybrice]

I actually think that a school that has top 15% students with a 3.29 average is probably more -- not less -- rigorous (i.e., has less grade inflation) than one in which students have to have a 3.8. In a normal distribution, where mean = median = mode, half should be above the average and half should be below. Top 15% is 2.5 standard deviations above the mean, so a low GPA at that rank should mean that the average grade is lower and that the grading is stricter. Since grades are determined within a single school (generally) and not by some external, validated standard, what says more is a student's class standing. If she was in the top 15%, she was a good student, in my book. Most university admissions staffs at competitive schools are familiar with individual high schools and how inflated or not their grades are, so they take into account what school a student attended when they evaluate class standing, course difficulty, and GPA.

Look at the test scores for her high school compared with some others...they aren't great

 

[wgram]

It was reported that her blanket was missing, but was it recovered? So little information.

Could that evening be the first NL meetup with DE, and DE discovered then that she was a little girl and rejected her. NL couldn't handle another rejection and storm off alone on foot and was abducted?

It was in NK's dorm room in a suitcase... she told the LE where it was

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Seems the cutting of the throat was symbolic. With these two sickos I see shades of 2 murders that involved male/female killers. One being Victoria Stafford and Noelle Paquette. There are threads here on both these victims. In both of these cases there was an online presence that went deeper. In the Noelle case Fetlife was where the 2 met and indulged in their sick fantasy. Cutting/rape/ violence was huge in that case. Stafford case involved a child. Noelle was a young adult. IMO there is much more to these 2 than we know.

I followed the Noelle case...

Now that you mention it...

I wonder if these two perps were on some type of fetish/dark website...

How ELSE does one find out that someone else has the same sick fantasies...

How does a convo like that even get started in a traditional social setting?

:dunno:

 

[Night-owl]

That is how I am viewing this at the moment, too...


Considering they are revealing so much information...

keeping evidence in close proximity....

I feel like they secretly wished to be caught... consciously or not....

JMO...

No idea. "Hey kids! Your lives are over, get used to being in a cage for the rest of your sorry lives!", is going to be sinking in real quick, if not already.

 

[imkeylime]

Sorry to reply to a quote from so much earlier in the thread but this is the first chance I've had to get on all day. And I am so deeply disturbed by this case that I'm having a hard time keeping my thoughts straight...
My point....
Regarding NK and the fact that she recently started taking Prozac. Often people do not get a true diagnosis for BPD until they put on SSRIs for "depression". It can send a person with BPD absolutely off the wall. It can induce psychotic behaviors, thoughts, aggression... I have to wonder if this could be part of what was going on with NK...

First of all, I agree that this is a terribly disturbing case. I've followed here for awhile (and post regularly on other WS cases). This case keeps me up at night. That said, I believe there's an alarming trend in this country of doctors prescribing SSRIs without determining if a person has unipolar or bipolar depression. And you're so right, an SSRI can send a person with BPD versus unipolar depression into mania, and that mania can manifest in outwardly violent versus innerly self-destructive behavior.

I'm coming to believe that BPD is becoming more and more prevalent in this country, for whatever reason. I personally know of a high-school student who had issues, was put on Prozac, and totally flipped out. He's now on lithium carbonate (gold standard for BPD) and doing great. In addition, both of my children are on the BP spectrum. I didn't see this coming, but we're learning how to deal with it.

None of that would make this case any easier to deal with, however. I cry for Nicole.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The Craig Creek Road location interests me. About 8 miles down that road is where the Childs/Metzler double-murder took place. They were also VT students and it's never been solved. Five years, now.

Eisenhauer/Keepers would have entered that road at the western end. A short distance down the road is a shooting range:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...n+National+Forest+-+Blacksburg+Shooting+Range

Very bare bones type of place, I believe. Back in 2007, I believe this is where Seung-Hui Cho practiced with his guns before carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre. The first two murders of that crime took place in Ambler Johnston Hall. That is the same dorm that David Eisenhauer resided.

After the Cho murders, police searched the Duck Pond at Virginia Tech. I believe they were looking for his computer hard drive. After the Lovell murder, police search another pond on campus.

Since Keepers has said she was excited to be part of something secret and special, I wonder if the two were inspired and/or obsessed with the Cho massacre and the Childs/Metzler murders.

Google view of shooting range:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...0x884d950adc06dcc3:0x86ceb8ea4842da2d!6m1!1e1

StreetView of entrance:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.287...ydlCl9D_e5ELnfCamqw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1

Note it appears to have a simple chain type entrance. Or possibly not even a chain.

Our thread on Childs/Metzler:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Heidi-Childs-18-Montgomery-County-26-Aug-2009

I think you have brought up some very interesting points here..

perhaps they followed... Or learned about ... The other cases you described that happened at the college/dorms they attended...

:waitasec:

ETA.... Oh My!... Maybe they followed them here on WS? :wink:

 

[Ontario Mom]

Just read the updates in the news but haven't read through all the posts here yet so it may have already been mentioned but...

I can't get over the horrifically cruel irony that they chose to kill this poor kid, by slicing her throat. A girl who already had the very noticeable tracheotomy scar and who probably hated it as most 13 yr old girls hate having any kind of physical imperfection that makes them stand out. I know I read in earlier MSM articles that Nicole had been bullied and had her scars made fun of. So then these two evil pieces of human trash chose to give her one last, final, very noticeable scar.

May they rot in a cage for the rest of their natural lives.

 

[strawberry]

First of all, I agree that this is a terribly disturbing case. I've followed here for awhile (and post regularly on other WS cases). This case keeps me up at night. That said, I believe there's an alarming trend in this country of doctors prescribing SSRIs without determining if a person has unipolar or bipolar depression. And you're so right, an SSRI can send a person with BPD versus unipolar depression into mania, and that mania can manifest in outwardly violent versus innerly self-destructive behavior.

I'm coming to believe that BPD is becoming more and more prevalent in this country, for whatever reason. I personally know of a high-school student who had issues, was put on Prozac, and totally flipped out. He's now on lithium carbonate (gold standard for BPD) and doing great. In addition, both of my children are on the BP spectrum. I didn't see this coming, but we're learning how to deal with it.

None of that would make this case any easier to deal with, however. I cry for Nicole.

It is true that prozac prescribed for depression when it is actually bipolar depression can induce mania, but this just doesn't seem like mania to me. Seems more like a borderline/sociopath

 

[elmomom]

Sorry to reply to a quote from so much earlier in the thread but this is the first chance I've had to get on all day. And I am so deeply disturbed by this case that I'm having a hard time keeping my thoughts straight...
My point....
Regarding NK and the fact that she recently started taking Prozac. Often people do not get a true diagnosis for BPD until they put on SSRIs for "depression". It can send a person with BPD absolutely off the wall. It can induce psychotic behaviors, thoughts, aggression... I have to wonder if this could be part of what was going on with NK...

I have been thinking about this since I heard about the Prozac. I was hesitant to post, for fear that everyone will jump on me for sympathizing with the defendant. But, I agree. Giving an antidepressant to a bipolar person can send them into a super-mania phase where they do act irrationally. Many psychs miss the bipolar diagnosis at first, and she may have not been full-blown yet. So her school psych gives her Prozac and wham! The descriptions she gave to LE reminded me of someone in a manic stage, along with inappropriate laughter in court... Not to even mention being " excited" to participate in this murder planning... I truly believe that she is a psychopath, as in, has little or no ability to empathize and feel genuine emotions, but not all psychopaths become killers - many end up highly successful in business for example. I always look for an explanation of why people go astray, and I am never happy with "they are just evil". In her case, I do believe that she was out of control due to inappropriate meds. Do I think that excuses her actions? No. Do I think that should soften her punishment? no. But I am more satisfied with the universe that I can see some of the factors that went into this act of unbelievable horror.