GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[Tallula.Belle]

Thinking out loud, I wonder if Noah liked TMNT ..could he have found the septic take lid and tried to pretend? Do we know what cartoons he was allegedly watching? (still catching up still unsure of opinion...) : View attachment 72418

But if it had been something like that, then why arrest the husband? He was at work. This little boy was so beautiful and I hope what I about to say comes out, like I mean. I just hope whatever happened to him that he wasn't alive when he ended up in the sewer. That would have been terrifying for him.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

The two most troubling facts in this case are that the mother admits she went to sleep and that the child was found in a septic tank. It is unrealistic to believe opinions will wait on more "facts."

BBM - right. This is what confuses me. This whole forum is about opinions, speculation, differing scenarios and possibilities. If people did not give opinions, and only talked about facts, then really there would be only one forum on WS and that would be the ones where the trial is in progress. :thinking: JMO of course.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

But if it had been something like that, then why arrest the husband? He was at work. This little boy was so beautiful and I hope what I about to say comes out, like I mean. I just hope whatever happened to him that he wasn't alive when he ended up in the sewer. That would have been terrifying for him.

And it wasn't only Noah that they were charged felony abuse and neglect of. As to your last part - yes I hope so too. I can't even entertain the thought of the alternative. JMO

 

[ANonyMs]

I agree. The whole thing that's strange is the date of offense on the booking. Dad was date of disappearance and Mom date of the arrest. I have to admit that peeks my curiosity a bit.

I wonder if that is accurate or an administrative error. I have wondered about that a lot. When they first were posting the booking info, I recall AW's was corrected. And they first only had PT's previous pic up and had to add the current booking photo.

But if it had been something like that, then why arrest the husband? He was at work. This little boy was so beautiful and I hope what I about to say comes out, like I mean. I just hope whatever happened to him that he wasn't alive when he ended up in the sewer. That would have been terrifying for him.

Just pure speculation here but to answer with a scenario of....if it were an accident (septic), why arrest the husband? I would think that if PT knew that AW would be sleeping or otherwise incapacitated, if the sleeping while Noah was awake thing was routine for them, he could be found as neglectful for allowing inadequate care of his children, allowing an unsafe situation to persist. Just a thought.

 

[ANonyMs]

BBM - right. This is what confuses me. This whole forum is about opinions, speculation, differing scenarios and possibilities. If people did not give opinions, and only talked about facts, then really there would be only one forum on WS and that would be the ones where the trial is in progress. :thinking: JMO of course.

I agree that people will form opinions on more than facts. I enjoy discussing the possibilities and scenarios. But there have been a lot of posts that flat out state, "The parents were on drugs" "They put him in the septic", etc. We do not know that, yet. Those are opinions based on conjecture, rumor, gut feelings, whatever. And those are valid discussions, but stating "They are junkies" as if it were a known fact is not productive. Then someone else comes along and reads it and thinks, "Did I miss a press conference? Did LE tell us they had drugs in the house?" and that person assumes from there forward that the parents were drug users. For me, it isn't about whether you choose to only bring facts in to your opinion making or other sources, it is how people are stating things here when they write them.

 

[SStarr33]

My response above that you quoted was more to do with members of the parents' community expressing to the media that they didn't even know there was a baby -- which I found odd, surely they'd have seen her loading a baby into a vehicle car seat?

Also...something else I've thought about. Past MSM articles indicated that Mom alleged she awoke from her long 'nap' at 10:30am, couldn't find Noah in the house, then reportedly immediately called 911. Myself and others found it strange that she would call 911 so quickly, why wouldn't she have gone around the neighborhood and knocked on doors of the neighbors he played with to see if they'd seen him or if perhaps he was inside one of their homes playing with their kids. Guess it makes sense she didn't bother searching outside of the home and putting on a big show, calling for him, knocking on doors, etc........if she knew exactly where he was/knew exactly that he was not out playing/at anyone's home, IMO.

How do we know she didn't call any neighbors? I know for sure she called her relative who posts on the FB page.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

I agree that people will form opinions on more than facts. I enjoy discussing the possibilities and scenarios. But there have been a lot of posts that flat out state, "The parents were on drugs" "They put him in the septic", etc. We do not know that, yet. Those are opinions based on conjecture, rumor, gut feelings, whatever. And those are valid discussions, but stating "They are junkies" as if it were a known fact is not productive. Then someone else comes along and reads it and thinks, "Did I miss a press conference? Did LE tell us they had drugs in the house?" and that person assumes from there forward that the parents were drug users. For me, it isn't about whether you choose to only bring facts in to your opinion making or other sources, it is how people are stating things here when they write them.

Thank you for your very kind, informative and sensible answer. :seeya:

 

[ANonyMs]

Does anyone recall seeing/reading/hearing anything about whether AW and PT remained in the house the whole time the search was on? (Yes, I am aware of the FB rumors - will not discuss here). The discussion up thread (or last thread) about using the toilet in the home after the fact if they knew Noah was in the septic tank made me wonder.

I am not 100% certain, but usually in missing child cases, don't the parents usually remain lodging/living in the home the whole time? There wouldn't be any reason in a straight, above board, missing child case for the parents to stay elsewhere would there be?

Did LE state that they were monitoring or present at the home around the clock from the time of their first arrival at 1100 on Sunday? (I know they said they monitored the house but wasn't sure if it was constant from the get go). In typical missing child cases, is that normal to have someone there in the first few days in case the child comes home or a call comes in, etc?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you for answering my question. I would like to jump off your post and this is in no way directed to you.

I already knew the answer to my question. The parents have been arrested yes, but they have not been arrested for murder.

No where in MSM does it state they were doing anything with drugs. <modsnip>

We know they were arrested for neglect and abuse yes, but what does that mean? Does it mean one of the parents gave him drugs, he died and one of them put him in the septic tank? I think that would be a murder charge.

Does it mean Noah went out to play and no one was watching him and he fell in the septic tank because the lid was off while someone may have been checking to see the waste level, came back not knowing he'd fallen in and closed the lid?

Does it mean his sister had drugs in her system, dirty, dirty diapers, no food in the house, bruises or beaten?

And then there's the mug shots...compared to FB photos that were taken years ago. I've read the parents are Herion addicts because of their mug shots. And dad dyed his hair. No one knows this.

My point is, these parents have already been tried and convicted for murder here on WS, by way of what is considered rumors on a FB page. We do not know the truth. We only know a sweet innocent child is no longer with us, and his parents are in jail for abuse and neglect.

By the way, I am a mother and grandmother and I'd be one of the first to report abuse of a child if I suspected it, but I can't and won't try these parents for murder until more facts not rumors come out. JMO

I can understand the neglect charges being filed against them because even if Noah did fall into the septic tank (which I doubt) it is certain that neither one prevented that from happening.

But for the abuse charges to be against them both for not only their daughter but for Noah as well then that requires proof and substantial evidence to support it.

Imo, when the ME examined Noah's body he may have seen old injuries or even new ones but knew they were not death causing injuries. If he saw that Noah had been abused then that certainly explains the charges on both of them for abuse.

They also have to have evidence that the baby was not only being neglected but also abused. Neglect doesn't have to be a purposeful act but to me abuse does. In the baby's case CPS could have had her seen by a physician at a hospital. When blood is drawn in that setting the results of toxicology would have a much quicker turnaround. Or they simply could have seem physical signs of abuse on her body. Even if one didn't abuse the children and the other one did they both could be charged with it since the other one never reported it. imo.

You are absolutely correct though about the drugs. None of us really know for sure they were drug users since LE hasn't stated that. Until it is confirmed to be true by LE it is just a rumor or speculation. However; what else could be involved? If we remove the drug usage then does that possibly mean the one who harmed Noah did it with a purposeful intent? Did he die because of being abused? We know none of that at this point in time as to what really happened to Noah and how he died and how his little body came to be in the septic tank.

Since I really don't know the answers to all of those questions I cannot say with any surety just how it happened and from what. One thing that did strike me though and the Sheriff seemed to genuinely feel the parents showed they were devastated about the loss of Noah. And even if they had a hand in it they both still could regret that it happened. That is, if he didn't die from some type of abuse because everyone knows abuse can maim and injury a child severely and they were certainly old enough to know it too.

IF Noah was given illegal drugs and that is shown on the tox report I think they will up the charges to some type of homicide. I know we don't know for sure if they were drug users, but as I said before, then what else could it be where his body wound up hidden in a septic tank? I think it is logical speculation to think drugs were somehow involved.



IMO

 

[MyBelle]

Thinking out loud, I wonder if Noah liked TMNT ..could he have found the septic take lid and tried to pretend? Do we know what cartoons he was allegedly watching? (still catching up still unsure of opinion...) : View attachment 72418

I'm very doubtful that happened because as soon as he removed the lid, he would have been hit with a smell that would have had him running the other way. A septic tank stinks and it is not a pleasant smell. We have ours pumped every two years and believe me, nobody is outside except the guy doing the pumping.

JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

My response above that you quoted was more to do with members of the parents' community expressing to the media that they didn't even know there was a baby -- which I found odd, surely they'd have seen her loading a baby into a vehicle car seat?

Also...something else I've thought about. Past MSM articles indicated that Mom alleged she awoke from her long 'nap' at 10:30am, couldn't find Noah in the house, then reportedly immediately called 911. Myself and others found it strange that she would call 911 so quickly, why wouldn't she have gone around the neighborhood and knocked on doors of the neighbors he played with to see if they'd seen him or if perhaps he was inside one of their homes playing with their kids. Guess it makes sense she didn't bother searching outside of the home and putting on a big show, calling for him, knocking on doors, etc........if she knew exactly where he was/knew exactly that he was not out playing/at anyone's home, IMO.

BBM, I find this interesting, I have seen many criticizing how long it took AW to call 911, saying it shouldn't have taken 10 min to check the tiny trailer and the nearest neighbors.

In no way am I sticking up for AW or criticizing any posters, I just find it interesting how people view things.

I was watching some extra kiddos one day and when their dad came to pick them up my son disappeared. I was right there at the front door as they were leaving and didn't see him go out with them. I frantically searched the house, then the yard, then the house, then the yard, then the house, I was shaking and crying and had my phone in hand to call 911 when I did one more sweep of the house to find him quietly hiding under his dad's desk eating a snack that I'd told him he could have after his friends left. 5 minutes. 5 minutes I looked, in sheer panic, I was ready to call 911 after 5 minutes. We had a long discussion, that wasn't super effective since I've found him hiding there since then, but at least I know his go to hiding spot. So I guess my point is I think 30 minutes is plenty long to search, running through my mind would be how much further he'd be w/in those 30 minutes than if a call had been made 25 minutes prior. KWIM?

Think about how far a kiddo can walk in 5 minutes, or 10, or 30. In 5 minutes we can get downtown. In 30 minutes, that's at least 2 miles. It's barely 1 mile to the 2 interstates that run through our tiny town.

 

[vasportsmom]

Does anyone recall seeing/reading/hearing anything about whether AW and PT remained in the house the whole time the search was on? (Yes, I am aware of the FB rumors - will not discuss here). The discussion up thread (or last thread) about using the toilet in the home after the fact if they knew Noah was in the septic tank made me wonder.

I am not 100% certain, but usually in missing child cases, don't the parents usually remain lodging/living in the home the whole time? There wouldn't be any reason in a straight, above board, missing child case for the parents to stay elsewhere would there be?

Did LE state that they were monitoring or present at the home around the clock from the time of their first arrival at 1100 on Sunday? (I know they said they monitored the house but wasn't sure if it was constant from the get go). In typical missing child cases, is that normal to have someone there in the first few days in case the child comes home or a call comes in, etc?

I'm pretty sure that they stayed there the entire time. Noah's aunt, KI, made a comment about there coming a point where family was allowed to talk to P & A but not permitted to go up the driveway to the home and visit them. I'll go look for that post on the FMNT page and double check what day that change took place.

About Paul & Ashley having different offense dates; we have speculated that the kids may have been left home that morning when Ashley took him to work so is it possible that Paul's charges relate to his part in that specific incidence of neglect?




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[Tallula.Belle]

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

I suspect little Noah didn't end up where he did by his own doing, but I have no clue what really happened. None of us do, unless we were there. It may take awhile for this story to unfold.

 

[ClockWatcher]

If the parents were using/smoking or even making meth in the home, both children would have been exposed to the residue left behind. There are quick swab tests that can be used to determine if there is meth residue on any surfaces that the children would come in contact with. Meth residue is highly toxic and can be absorbed by children through their skin, or ingested by touching contaminated surfaces and placing their fingers or toys in their mouths.

My best guess, is that when LE arrived, there was enough suspicion or some clues that there were drugs and drug activity in the home. That may have one of the factors in determining the removal of little A. and the charge of abuse for both children. I don't (at this time) believe that the kids were being physically abused. Exposed to drugs and neglected as to their basic needs, yes.

 

[AnnaGrace]

Does anyone recall seeing/reading/hearing anything about whether AW and PT remained in the house the whole time the search was on? (Yes, I am aware of the FB rumors - will not discuss here). The discussion up thread (or last thread) about using the toilet in the home after the fact if they knew Noah was in the septic tank made me wonder.

I am not 100% certain, but usually in missing child cases, don't the parents usually remain lodging/living in the home the whole time? There wouldn't be any reason in a straight, above board, missing child case for the parents to stay elsewhere would there be?

Did LE state that they were monitoring or present at the home around the clock from the time of their first arrival at 1100 on Sunday? (I know they said they monitored the house but wasn't sure if it was constant from the get go). In typical missing child cases, is that normal to have someone there in the first few days in case the child comes home or a call comes in, etc?

While the parents’ movements are not being restricted, they are being monitored, Akers said. It is unclear at this time whether the family has hired a lawyer, but Akers speculated that they had been read their Miranda rights as part of the questioning process.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...cle_86971938-fb24-5957-9562-89fb1f087864.html

 

[Dogface]

Could it be the dad was arrested on charges only pertaining to the daughter since he wasn't at the house when Noah went "missing" and that's why his charges are less?

 

[MyBelle]

Could it be the dad was arrested on charges only pertaining to the daughter since he wasn't at the house when Noah went "missing" and that's why his charges are less?

iirc, both parents are charged with two counts that represent both children. I think those are place holder charges and they are waiting for one to roll over on the other and admit what happened in exchange for a plea. It reminds me of the Elaina Steinfurth case.

JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

But if it had been something like that, then why arrest the husband? He was at work. This little boy was so beautiful and I hope what I about to say comes out, like I mean. I just hope whatever happened to him that he wasn't alive when he ended up in the sewer. That would have been terrifying for him.

Why arrest the husband, you ask? Well this is just my opinion here but no one as far as the MSM knows actually saw Noah Sunday at all. He is last seen on a video Saturday evening by the public and anything after that is per the parent's story. I haven't seen any statements or other evidence proving that Noah was actually with the mom and baby on the trip Sunday morning to take dad to work. What happened to Noah could have actually happened Saturday night, meaning that the dad was aware of and maybe even a part of what happened and maybe even have disposed of Noah in the septic tank. We just don't know, all we have are the stories that came out following the 911 call.

 

[BrownRice]

Why arrest the husband, you ask? Well this is just my opinion here but no one as far as the MSM knows actually saw Noah Sunday at all. He is last seen on a video Saturday evening by the public and anything after that is per the parent's story. I haven't seen any statements or other evidence proving that Noah was actually with the mom and baby on the trip Sunday morning to take dad to work. What happened to Noah could have actually happened Saturday night, meaning that the dad was aware of and maybe even a part of what happened and maybe even have disposed of Noah in the septic tank. We just don't know, all we have are the stories that came out following the 911 call.

I don't doubt any of this happened. However, they've apparently not been charged with anything related to Noah's death so I doubt his charges have anything to do with the septic tank yet?


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[vasportsmom]

iirc, both parents are charged with two counts that represent both children. I think those are place holder charges and they are waiting for one to roll over on the other and admit what happened in exchange for a plea. It reminds me of the Elaina Steinfurth case.

JMO

I agree. Ashley has left herself in a mess though since, by her own admission, Noah was alive and happy after Paul last saw him. What are the odds that after 5 days time of death could be nailed down to late Saturday vs early Sunday?


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