GUILTY VA - Tina Smith, 41, slain, 12yo daughter abducted, Salem, 2 Dec 2010 - #8

[hollyblue]

I know that BS is a victim and in my eyes could be nothing but a victim at age 12, but I thought that it would have been a law that when the detectives questioned her (as they apparently did in CA), a parent or attorney would have to be present.

It could be LE and the father decided it would be better if he didn't go or maybe child services talked to him? He's in LE too, so I think they kept her best interests at heart ....in consideration.

I had thoughts of this "consideration" upon seeing JE's latest mug shot posted. Doesn't look like he'd had much sleep and had been put through the rung of an old washer.

 

[Lysistrata]

Very great reply. However, I am very disturbed by her family. Dad doesn't say much. Then, she is found, and all news assumes that a family member will be flying out there immediately with the detectives. That is written. They did not make that initiative and I am concerned her entire family must be entirely clueless. If they thought she witnessed her mother's death, was abused, and forced across the country, ABSOLUTELY someone would fly out immediately..especially her father. You can say money was the issue, but if the family member did not have the money, it would have been easily acquired by anyone at this point.

My worry is, the family is clueless about what kind of help she will need. They most likely can't afford it and if they could, the effort to drive her so far would be too much trouble. (Since they could not could fly there)

Her dad didn't show up until after she was found. He is not bonded with her so it didn't affect him deeply.

Regardless of what her roll is (if any), let's pray she gets the help she needs, but it's very doubtful because her family can't even fly out to see her after she's found, and the Chief of Police states right after she is found that he assumes a family member will fly out. It did not occur. That has struck me as wrong against that family whining and crying to get her back. They do, and NOT one flies out.

These are my impressions, based on a bit of local hearsay, my past experience working with kids and courts, and a lot of reading of news reports and watching various news casts.

I got an email from someone who knows BS's father (and who has met BS more than once, with her dad) the day after this was discovered. It was very short and only said that TS had been killed, BS was missing and that dad, who adored BS, was beside himself with grief and worry. My friend asked me to say a prayer for the whole situation. That's all I've heard from that source...all I wanted to hear. Later news reports said that daddy was in Salem/Roanoke working and cooperating with the LE involved in the investigation. He was most definitely interested in what had happened and where his child was.

I don't understand your stmt that "her dad didn't show up until after she was found. He is not bonded with her so it didn't affect him deeply." Until she was found, he didn't know where to show up! And I've not seen one thing that indicates that he was not bonded with his daughter. Nothing. In fact, I've seen the opposite.

Because of the sensitive nature of the homicide and the abduction, it was imperative that no one from BS's family rush to her side, asking questions, putting thoughts in her mind, clouding her memory, protecting her from questioning, etc. The police needed her a bit afraid, tired, lonesome, worried, and completely unaffected by the presence of family members when they first questioned her. They needed information that was as fresh and unadulterated as possible. While she was in CA, BS's time was spent, most likely, talking to LE investigators (and possibly psychologists and/or social workers), getting a good medical exam, and sleeping and eating in protected custody. It was imperative that BS only be allowed to talk to those trained in the interrogation of children. However, according to news reports, she was definitely allowed to be in phone contact with her family though it was probably supervised.

I've seen some accounts that say she was accompanied home by detectives/investigators and others that have said her father accompanied her home. Either could be possible...I'm more than sure, though, that if the lead investigators thought his presence wouldn't interfere in any way, daddy was allowed to go to SF and accompany her home...and did just that. Until the LE was sure they had as much info as they could get, though, they needed BS unencumbered by overly-protective relatives. She was safe, she was protected, and she was in phone contact with family but she was also the victim of an abduction and possibly a witness to her mother's murder, both very serious. She had to be questioned thoroughly and professionally, both for the sake of the investigation and for her own well-being.

If her father did NOT go to SF, it was not because he didn't want to go or couldn't afford to go...the decision as to whether he (or any family member) were allowed to go was made by the VA and federal investigators, not by daddy. Perhaps dad was allowed to go out later...or met the plane somewhere and flew the last leg with them...I'm not clear on that because the news reports haven't been clear. But I am more than sure that if no family flew out to get her, it was LE's decision, not the family's.

As to whether the family is clueless about what BS needs, I'm not sure they're nearly that provincial and, if they are, someone will tell them. I hope that someone will give them names of therapists well-trained in trauma survival and help her and her dad make and access appointments. I have no doubt that the treatment will be expensive but, perhaps, with BS's social security from her mother, victim's compensation funds, and her dad's income and insurance, they'll be able to afford it.

I am convinced that the family is well-aware that the child will require therapy and lots of it. While there might not be anyone close by that's qualified, it's not an impossible drive to Raleigh, Durham, Richmond, etc. I'd lay money that they have access to reliable transportation.

I think we all share your hope that BS can get what she needs to heal. And I'm confident that her family cares enough to try to help make that happen.

 

[hollyblue]

imo we have not seen a murder indictment against him because the state has no incentive to file it at this time. He is not going anywhere, and once they file they start the clock ticking on his right to a speedy trial. Odds are he will waive that right and there will be delay after delay, but there is no reason to risk it and to get his high price death penalty attorney thrown into the mix.

Those charges are coming, when they are ready.

I don't think we will see any federal charges for kidnapping, the state will keep those on the docket as an aggravating factor. I don't believe we will see any sexual abuse charges because they don't need them. Death penalty for murder is about as much of a penalty as you can get, the details won't have to be poured over for the victim, etc....

I know people say they will file all of those charges and bury him with everything from the credit card use, to stealing from the house, etc..... but they have limited resources and aren't going to tie up the court hours when he will already face the maximum sentence possible, and criminal cases are largely strategic planning, they are not going to muddy the waters with anything they don't have to.

moo of course

Agree about the sole murder charge. In Alicia Debolt's case, they filed all the other charges as well and I still can't figure out why. He fled in one of his employer's vehicles in the wee hours of the morning after LE did a search of his home.

 

[Lysistrata]

imo we have not seen a murder indictment against him because the state has no incentive to file it at this time. He is not going anywhere, and once they file they start the clock ticking on his right to a speedy trial. Odds are he will waive that right and there will be delay after delay, but there is no reason to risk it and to get his high price death penalty attorney thrown into the mix.

Those charges are coming, when they are ready.

I don't think we will see any federal charges for kidnapping, the state will keep those on the docket as an aggravating factor. I don't believe we will see any sexual abuse charges because they don't need them. Death penalty for murder is about as much of a penalty as you can get, the details won't have to be poured over for the victim, etc....

I know people say they will file all of those charges and bury him with everything from the credit card use, to stealing from the house, etc..... but they have limited resources and aren't going to tie up the court hours when he will already face the maximum sentence possible, and criminal cases are largely strategic planning, they are not going to muddy the waters with anything they don't have to.

moo of course

You know? I've been thinking a lot too about all the possible charges that could be filed against JSE depending on the forensic evidence. Sometimes prosecutors just heap the charges on, one on top of another, until the warrants are stacked a foot high. I've seen that happen when they've got some strong evidence but also some evidence with holes in it. The prosecution has to make the defense aware of all exculpatory evidence but not holes. So they heap it on to scare the defendant into pleading to whatever he'll plead to. OTOH, when evidence is very strong on a couple of very major charges, the prosecution might threaten to bring the lesser charges but get a plea to a significant charge without ever filing the lesser charges or bringing federal charges.

I think we'll need to wait to see what the forensic evidence shows. Heaven knows, the prosecution doesn't want to put BS on the witness stand in a year or two, when this finally comes to trial, and make her relive it all. My guess is that they've got evidence of lots of things and will hold it over his head until he pleads to life without possibility of parole. It's a pretty sure bet that the defense will advise him to plead in order to avoid the death penalty. But if the evidence is so strong for the homicide case that it's a slam-dunk, the prosecutor might force things to trial and go for the death penalty.

The credit card charges have served their purpose. I think they're moot now. But, after the holidays, I think we'll begin hearing more and more about the abduction and, especially, the homicide. It will be interesting to see what charges the prosecutor decides to bring and what he holds up his sleeve. I think he'll try to avoid any sexual assault/rape charges for BS's sake...unless they're necessary to pressure him into pleading to something else or to put him behind bars for the rest of his natural life. I think it will all hinge on how strong the evidence against JSE is re: the homicide. I hope it's a slam-dunk.

 

[duckingoff]

Lost my patience this morning with the FB case discussion site. I'll probably get bumped off for my post. Couldn't take the comments of people speculating based on 10 seconds of video of a child at the celebration service. Everything from gum chewing to smiling was critized. Her own dad was chomping on gum; so how that small act of normalcy is an indicator of anything hinkey is beyond me. OK I'm sorry to get off topic....just thankful I found the WS group. :woohoo:

 

[burbqueen]

Welcome duckingoff!

I dunno, but JE not being charged with murder is kinda strange to me. I'll wait for LE to investigate and file charges. All I have to say is this. I cannot post my theories cause I know that they will probably get me a violation. So i'm gonna lurk for a while like some others out here. I have a strong feeling this is gonna get ugly with a capital U!! I've seen myspace and FB for JE and BS and heard bits and piece of rumors, but there is something...just something a bit off when you look at all the info that has come out so far.

 

[duckingoff]

Welcome duckingoff!

I dunno, but JE not being charged with murder is kinda strange to me. I'll wait for LE to investigate and file charges. All I have to say is this. I cannot post my theories cause I know that they will probably get me a violation. So i'm gonna lurk for a while like some others out here. I have a strong feeling this is gonna get ugly with a capital U!! I've seen myspace and FB for JE and BS and heard bits and piece of rumors, but there is something...just something a bit off when you look at all the info that has come out so far.

Please don't read my FB wall. You'll think I'm from a different planet LOL. I hear you but just wanted to put it out to the "other" group to tread lightly due to the fact there is a kid involved. Speculation is one thing but there is a right and wrong way to do things. It's hard holding back but it's the right thing to do until more information becomes available moo

 

[sherryk]

I have read a few comments on the father and family not going out to California and other questions or comments on the father and/or family.

I can tell you that when it involves a child that CPS has the child protected and the interview process is done by experts and everything is in the best interest of the child and making a case. The father most likley was instucted not to go due to it would be even more emotional for her. It could of brought out feelings of quilt in going with him regardless of why, it could of brought out feelings of happiness to see father therefore making her shut down emotions and details of the "reality" of things. I do believe that after what she had been through and the delicate way it was to be handled that the father was advised on if he should be there and what to ask or talk to her on the phone about.

I am a little bothered by the few words that she did speak at the celebration that was to be a vigil (until she was found safe) It seems to me that she is still not living in reality. The smiles she presented to me looks to be just as she is a child that really doesnt understant at this point how difficult this will be. Living in the moment of being home is great but it looks to me that she in no way is aware of the huge reality of this.

I hope that she will be able to be kept away from media and even the town celebrations due it seems that she needs just family and alone time and let these things come out on her own. I just hope that the attention doesnt delay her process of healing. It is only going to be natural for her to feel some quilt.. I hope that phase is short for her.

She is the child and a victem.

In short I think the father did just what he was told to do.
If there was a major investigation with a child I would do what experts advised me to do if it was in the best interest of my child, even if that meant waiting an extra few days for her to come home. He knew she was safe and being in LE I would think that he knows the process of an investigation and did the right thing.

 

[Quester]

Lost my patience this morning with the FB case discussion site. I'll probably get bumped off for my post. Couldn't take the comments of people speculating based on 10 seconds of video of a child at the celebration service. Everything from gum chewing to smiling was critized. Her own dad was chomping on gum; so how that small act of normalcy is an indicator of anything hinkey is beyond me. OK I'm sorry to get off topic....just thankful I found the WS group. :woohoo:

Regarding FB comments about BS and her father chewing gum, here’s a little chewing gum trivia. (Note: I’m not defending the comments on FB)
____________________________________________________________

Chewing gum decays teeth and promotes gum disease (exception: sugarless), is a “disgusting” habit (per Willy Wonka) and, depending on your location and mores, is a sign of being ill mannered and showing disrespect (especially in church, at a funeral, etc).

According to the following website (Canada) http://www.sv-luka.org/articles/howtobehave.htm, “It is unseeming to reverence the icons on the iconostasis while the service is in progress. Beware of talking and laughing in church, for by this one shows disrespect of God and disturbs others. Chewing gum, eating or drinking in church, before, after or during services, is impermissible and blasphemous.”

In Singapore, heed the following from http://www.ediplomat.com/np/cultural_etiquette/ce_sg.htm , “Singapore has strict regulations which carry stiff fines, possible jail sentences or even death. You should never do the following: jaywalk; smoke in public or in air-conditioned buildings (except country clubs); enter the country with drugs; litter, or import, manufacture, sell or use chewing gum.”

Be aware of the following according to http://www.joesclass.com/bits221/Gestures.htm:

France: “Some common gestures to be refrained from in public in France include: chewing gum, yawning, scratching, or having loud conversations. Also, do not rest your feet on a chair or table.”

Germay: “If you are talking with someone, do not chew gum. This is considered very rude. To do so would remind a German person of "a cow chewing on a cud".”

Poland: “Avoid chewing gum when you are talking with someone.”

Closer to home, in a church in Pennsyvania at http://www.sjy.org/Education/Articles/ProperDecorumforMassandotherServices.aspx: “Proper decorum means that food and drink, even for the purpose of placating babies, should not be taken into the Sanctuary. Chewing gum is particularly annoying and disrespectful toward the nature of the service and those who participate.”

And here’s the dialogue with Willy Wonka at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367594/quotes :

Veruca Salt: Will Violet always be a blueberry?
Willy Wonka: No. Maybe. I dunno. But that's what you get from chewing gum all day, it's just disgusting.
Mike Teavee: If you hate gum so much, why do you make it?
Willy Wonka: Once again you really shouldn't mumble, 'cause it's kinda starting to bum me out.

 

[burbqueen]

I really dont think the FB board is really that bad. I've read much worse on other sites.

I have a few Questions. How did BMS brother die and what charges have been filed against JE??

 

[duckingoff]

Regarding FB comments about BS and her father chewing gum, here’s a little chewing gum trivia. (Note: I’m not defending the comments on FB)
____________________________________________________________

Chewing gum decays teeth and promotes gum disease (exception: sugarless), is a “disgusting” habit (per Willy Wonka) and, depending on your location and mores, is a sign of being ill mannered and showing disrespect (especially in church, at a funeral, etc).

According to the following website (Canada) http://www.sv-luka.org/articles/howtobehave.htm, “It is unseeming to reverence the icons on the iconostasis while the service is in progress. Beware of talking and laughing in church, for by this one shows disrespect of God and disturbs others. Chewing gum, eating or drinking in church, before, after or during services, is impermissible and blasphemous.”

In Singapore, heed the following from http://www.ediplomat.com/np/cultural_etiquette/ce_sg.htm , “Singapore has strict regulations which carry stiff fines, possible jail sentences or even death. You should never do the following: jaywalk; smoke in public or in air-conditioned buildings (except country clubs); enter the country with drugs; litter, or import, manufacture, sell or use chewing gum.”

Be aware of the following according to http://www.joesclass.com/bits221/Gestures.htm:

France: “Some common gestures to be refrained from in public in France include: chewing gum, yawning, scratching, or having loud conversations. Also, do not rest your feet on a chair or table.”

Germay: “If you are talking with someone, do not chew gum. This is considered very rude. To do so would remind a German person of "a cow chewing on a cud".”

Poland: “Avoid chewing gum when you are talking with someone.”

Closer to home, in a church in Pennsyvania at http://www.sjy.org/Education/Articles/ProperDecorumforMassandotherServices.aspx: “Proper decorum means that food and drink, even for the purpose of placating babies, should not be taken into the Sanctuary. Chewing gum is particularly annoying and disrespectful toward the nature of the service and those who participate.”

And here’s the dialogue with Willy Wonka at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367594/quotes :

Veruca Salt: Will Violet always be a blueberry?
Willy Wonka: No. Maybe. I dunno. But that's what you get from chewing gum all day, it's just disgusting.
Mike Teavee: If you hate gum so much, why do you make it?
Willy Wonka: Once again you really shouldn't mumble, 'cause it's kinda starting to bum me out.

Thanks sweetie. I can vouch for the Germany one. My Oma smacked my mouth on many occassions for being the "cow". Actually, I think I recall it was a swine that she used in her terminology when taming of me. I failed etiquette school miserably while in Europe. Poor BS and her poppa LOL

 

[duckingoff]

I really dont think the FB board is really that bad. I've read much worse on other sites.

I have a few Questions. How did BMS brother die and what charges have been filed against JE??

WTM died from the choking game. You can google it. JSE charges of abduction and credit card fraud.
http://www.dailypress.com/topic/us/virginia/roanoke-county-PLGEO1001011105000000.topic

 

[duckingoff]

William Tyler Matherly died from the choking game. You can google it. JSE charges of abduction and credit card fraud.
http://www.dailypress.com/topic/us/virginia/roanoke-county-PLGEO1001011105000000.topic

The admin thankfully took the comment off the wall after I made a fuss. But did keep going on about HCB being something worthy of notice. I've made a fuss on another occassion in regards to FB & MS status that was on the photo archive. It was also removed because it was untrue and I had screen shots to back it up.

 

[Quester]

Thanks sweetie. I can vouch for the Germany one. My Oma smacked my mouth on many occassions for being the "cow". Actually, I think I recall it was a swine that she used in her terminology when taming of me. I failed etiquette school miserably while in Europe. Poor BS and her poppa LOL

O/T You're welcome. I received my severe retraining in France, home of the inventors of the guillotine. Haven't chewed gum since.

 

[passionflower]

O/T no gum for me & family........esp after seeing CA!!!

 

[hollyblue]

Maybe Singapore should focus on their human trafficking problem.....I'd even let them chew gum while solving it.

I'm just glad BS's alive and well enough to partake of that freedom.

 

[Lysistrata]

Okey...dokey...now we have a link to a FB page of a high school friend of Jeff's who will answer questions about him if you write to her. This is in addition to the Admin's offer to send questions to a 'source'. Think they're the same source? Has anyone ever been injured reaching too far for his/her 15 minutes of fame? Sheesh!

Remember those Magic 8 Balls or Crazy 8 Balls that told your fortune? You asked a question, turned the ball over and, out of some murky liquid, your answer appeared. Why does this FB page conjure that image for me?

 

[Pollywog]

I chew gum when I am nervous, not so much now but I used to. I was a radio DJ for a while years ago and I chewed gum just before I went on the air, never while on air, but before and after. After I got used to being on air, then I was not so nervous and no more gum. Maybe it is a nervous habit for them as well.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

O/T no gum for me & family........esp after seeing CA!!!

I used to chew gum to help keep my throat moist and help keep me from coughing, but to snip part of passionflower's post, [not] "after seeing CA!!!"

 

[Quester]

Texting phrase question: BS used get at tha device frequently on her MS page. What's the meaning?