VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007
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In March, Cho bought a 9mm Glock 19 from a gun store in Roanoke, Va. A little over a month earlier, he had purchased a Walther .22-caliber from www.thegunsource.com, a Web site owned and operated by Green Bay-based TGSCOM Inc.
TGSCOM Inc. owner Eric Thompson said Cho ordered the handgun online Feb. 2 and picked it up at a pawn shop in Blacksburg, Va., on Feb 9.
"There was absolutely nothing at all remarkable about it," Thompson said.
Cho paid the $267.63 cost with a credit card and that was his first and only purchase through the Web site, Thompson said.
The Walther P22 is a low-powered handgun usually used for target practice or shooting squirrels, Thompson said.
Cho filled out the paperwork prior to the purchases and underwent federal and state background checks each time, both of which were initiated by the shops in Virginia. A native of South Korea who came to the United States as a child, Cho was a legal permanent resident, making him eligible to buy a gun.
Virginia State Police send information on prohibited buyers to the federal government. State police maintain the sales were legal under state law and would have been barred only if the special justice had committed Cho to a psychiatric hospital.
Campbell, the ATF agent, said it appeared that Cho may have lied on the gun sales forms that asked whether he had been determined to be mentally defective, but that lawyers were looking at whether the information should have shown up in a national database.
Meanwhile, Thompson, the owner of the Green Bay online gun shop, said his "heart goes out to the victims."
"I just feel completely terrible about this," he said.
Thompson's Web site linked Thursday to a site where donations could be made for the victims' families. Thompson said he has donated but declined to say how much.
He also said one of his employees late Thursday received a threatening phone call from a person angry about the gun sale.
Thompson, 34, launched the online shop in 1999. He said handgun sales make up about 30% of his business. He said the Virginia Tech shootings were tragic but would not shut down his company.
"There are 1,000 laws in place. Everybody did what was right from a legal standpoint," he said. "How can you ever know the mind of a madman?"
I tried to copy the link but it wouldn't let me!
This jerk from the www.gunsource.com has over 50 sites he sells from on the internet. Read that in another paper from Wis. Anyone know of a way we can shut him down??? Might be able to save some lives!!!! He is based here in Wis.
TGSCOM Inc. owner Eric Thompson said Cho ordered the handgun online Feb. 2 and picked it up at a pawn shop in Blacksburg, Va., on Feb 9.
"There was absolutely nothing at all remarkable about it," Thompson said.
Cho paid the $267.63 cost with a credit card and that was his first and only purchase through the Web site, Thompson said.
The Walther P22 is a low-powered handgun usually used for target practice or shooting squirrels, Thompson said.
Cho filled out the paperwork prior to the purchases and underwent federal and state background checks each time, both of which were initiated by the shops in Virginia. A native of South Korea who came to the United States as a child, Cho was a legal permanent resident, making him eligible to buy a gun.
Virginia State Police send information on prohibited buyers to the federal government. State police maintain the sales were legal under state law and would have been barred only if the special justice had committed Cho to a psychiatric hospital.
Campbell, the ATF agent, said it appeared that Cho may have lied on the gun sales forms that asked whether he had been determined to be mentally defective, but that lawyers were looking at whether the information should have shown up in a national database.
Meanwhile, Thompson, the owner of the Green Bay online gun shop, said his "heart goes out to the victims."
"I just feel completely terrible about this," he said.
Thompson's Web site linked Thursday to a site where donations could be made for the victims' families. Thompson said he has donated but declined to say how much.
He also said one of his employees late Thursday received a threatening phone call from a person angry about the gun sale.
Thompson, 34, launched the online shop in 1999. He said handgun sales make up about 30% of his business. He said the Virginia Tech shootings were tragic but would not shut down his company.
"There are 1,000 laws in place. Everybody did what was right from a legal standpoint," he said. "How can you ever know the mind of a madman?"
I tried to copy the link but it wouldn't let me!
This jerk from the www.gunsource.com has over 50 sites he sells from on the internet. Read that in another paper from Wis. Anyone know of a way we can shut him down??? Might be able to save some lives!!!! He is based here in Wis.
SieSie
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Thanks for the link - what a very moving and sincere statement that was. They are clearly devastated and did not see this coming. If he was so quiet and reserved, who'd have seen the rage boiling underneath? Very sad for everyone.
My heart goes out to them too.......
wow,, that is the best family statement i have ever read, for sure. it really does add a tremendous amount of insight from their point of view. and perhaps i am 110% wrong about there being violence inside the family... it now appears they are in shock as everyone else. hard to believe, but i suppose it is possible. it's looking more and more like a random mental illness that had nothing to do with how he was raised. still, that incredible hatred against the father (in that play)- and then killing him with a chainsaw.. where on earth did that come from?
the only thing i can think of that may come about in the future, to help prevent this kind of thing.. (since we can't 'know the mind of a madman' until he snaps.. and it's interesting what stephen king said <earlier post>)... is... there should be some sort of brain scan that can detect little abnormalities in the areas of impulse, anger, and judgement, etc... maybe scientists can fine-tune it to where they can predict with pretty high probablity that someone is capable of such an act of violence. when you have an anti-social loner like this, and mix with extreme anger, extreme detatchment, and a liking for video games where you go around shooing people.. etc.. well... even if they fit the high-risk profile 100%... i dunno,, what to do after that...? how do you remove someone from society who might be a danger? and what do you do with them? suppose you do, and then they are going to be more enraged than ever, as it reinforces the idea of what they are. (unless, you keep them locked up forever).
OK here's a fantasy.. that one day everyone in america will be able to have enough HEALTH CARE that brain scans will be mandatory for everyone. seriously!! why not?? at LEAST they could see if you have a tumor, a lesion, if there is a huge hole where your frontal lobe should be. hello, we DO have the technology!!!
in my opinion everyone should have psychological testing too... sounds big brother-ish, but so be it. if someone says that they want to kill everyone or something similar.. then at least SOMETHING could be done... (but i dunno what, exactly...)
i was reading the other night about kip kinkel, how they discovered these strange holes in his brain... didn't say much more but it got me to thinking. there has just GOT to be a way to predict this kind of thing better, somehow. and this is not to say that everyone who has brain abnormality is going to go ballistic, or vice-versa. but what if there's a pattern....?
i also have to wonder if what we've done to the environment is messing up young peoples' brains. well, of course it is, but i wonder if there is a connection with this specific issue. that, and of course, drugs... it would be interesting to see the history of the parents behind the murderers...
the only thing i can think of that may come about in the future, to help prevent this kind of thing.. (since we can't 'know the mind of a madman' until he snaps.. and it's interesting what stephen king said <earlier post>)... is... there should be some sort of brain scan that can detect little abnormalities in the areas of impulse, anger, and judgement, etc... maybe scientists can fine-tune it to where they can predict with pretty high probablity that someone is capable of such an act of violence. when you have an anti-social loner like this, and mix with extreme anger, extreme detatchment, and a liking for video games where you go around shooing people.. etc.. well... even if they fit the high-risk profile 100%... i dunno,, what to do after that...? how do you remove someone from society who might be a danger? and what do you do with them? suppose you do, and then they are going to be more enraged than ever, as it reinforces the idea of what they are. (unless, you keep them locked up forever).
OK here's a fantasy.. that one day everyone in america will be able to have enough HEALTH CARE that brain scans will be mandatory for everyone. seriously!! why not?? at LEAST they could see if you have a tumor, a lesion, if there is a huge hole where your frontal lobe should be. hello, we DO have the technology!!!
in my opinion everyone should have psychological testing too... sounds big brother-ish, but so be it. if someone says that they want to kill everyone or something similar.. then at least SOMETHING could be done... (but i dunno what, exactly...)
i was reading the other night about kip kinkel, how they discovered these strange holes in his brain... didn't say much more but it got me to thinking. there has just GOT to be a way to predict this kind of thing better, somehow. and this is not to say that everyone who has brain abnormality is going to go ballistic, or vice-versa. but what if there's a pattern....?
i also have to wonder if what we've done to the environment is messing up young peoples' brains. well, of course it is, but i wonder if there is a connection with this specific issue. that, and of course, drugs... it would be interesting to see the history of the parents behind the murderers...
i was also gonna say.. (about the family statement)....WHY don't more families give statements like this? sometimes they don't even have the courtesy to say anything. this really shows a tremendous amount of empathy and respect for the victims & their families... and i'm sure the families & friends appreciate it very much. at this point, they need all the help they can to heal (of there is such a thing), and surely this is a huge part of taking the first step. i really commend his sister for making a point to name every single one of their names, and saying everything else she did. it's much more clear now that they are really as baffled as everyone else.
angelwngs
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Could you offer your opinions....please...?
Waco Texas, Oklahoma City Bombing, Columbine, Virginia Tech....
Why is it that the most horrific crimes of MALE DOMINATED, 'Americans' against 'Americans' seem to occur in April?
Some people in real life have answered my question saying "Spring Fever".
I wonder what Freud would say?
Could one of the elements that falls together with insanity, psychosis etc., actually be extreme sexual repression or sexual frustration that is triggered naturally in the 'Heat of Spring Fever'?
Ladies, during the Spring, when you are driving down the street...have you not noticed the way male strangers actually leer into your car as if it is an invitation to pull your cars over and 'get to know each other better'?
I do not mean to generalize sexually against males...
Seriously, and most sincerely, I have noticed this unusal habit which happens every single spring of my life, since I have had my own drivers permit...
Have any other females out there noticed this ODD phenomenon? :silenced:
Waco Texas, Oklahoma City Bombing, Columbine, Virginia Tech....
Why is it that the most horrific crimes of MALE DOMINATED, 'Americans' against 'Americans' seem to occur in April?
Some people in real life have answered my question saying "Spring Fever".
I wonder what Freud would say?
Could one of the elements that falls together with insanity, psychosis etc., actually be extreme sexual repression or sexual frustration that is triggered naturally in the 'Heat of Spring Fever'?
Ladies, during the Spring, when you are driving down the street...have you not noticed the way male strangers actually leer into your car as if it is an invitation to pull your cars over and 'get to know each other better'?
I do not mean to generalize sexually against males...
Seriously, and most sincerely, I have noticed this unusal habit which happens every single spring of my life, since I have had my own drivers permit...
Have any other females out there noticed this ODD phenomenon? :silenced:
Just off the top of my head, I would guess the perpetrator's time it to coincide with past horrific events. But I have no idea.
Or therapy. I think those who want to get help should be able to get it without paying through the nose for it. I'm not saying I'm messed up, but I always thought it would be theraputic and comforting to talk to someone about what's bothering me. I think having a non-judgemental person to listen to you is important in one's life.
englishleigh
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I have.
I think it's really true...everything is reawakening...all the strongest emotions
and desires in a person come alive when the weather is warming, the flowers are blooming, etc.
And yes, there is the copycat factor, too...
I tend to agree with you......people in the US can't afford therapy nor health care that covers any type of mental health. My step son is a counselor they charged $85.00 per hr 3 yrs ago not sure what it is now but totally ridiculous. Nobody can afford it.
Marthatex
New Member
Health insurance should certainly cover mental health care; it is needed more in today's society than ever.
But I believe mental health care is probably the least adequately covered form of care.
I wonder if Cho had health care coverage - perhaps that was a factor in releasing him to out-patient rather than inpatient care.
Did I read correctly that if they had admitted him to a mental hospital then records would have kept him from buying a gun? There are scads of people all over that should be hospitalized and are not - from either lack of coverage or unwillingness to undergo the stigma of hospitalization.
Remember the book, "The Sociopath Next Door?".
As for month of April - the second largest school shooting, Charles Whitman, was in August. When was the Amish school shooting?
Wikipedia's List of massacres:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres
They don't list the particular month, but it's there if someone is interested in looking further. Scroll down for current day massacres.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres
They don't list the particular month, but it's there if someone is interested in looking further. Scroll down for current day massacres.
There were no violent video games amongst Cho's belongings when the FBI went through his things. That nutcase, (Jack Thompson) who is always blathering on and on about video games brought up Counterstrike, but again NO VIDEO GAMES AT ALL IN CHO'S BELONGINGS!
A more level headed article, read both pages of it. Don't blame video games, blame untreated mental illness! As for how many he wounded and killed, HE USED POINT BLANK SHOTS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! He's actually incompetent because he took out so few! (Pardon the harshness of the words there please. I am not the only one to think this though. Also, I am glad, very very glad he was so incompetent for the record!)
MSNBC article said:
MSNBC said:
Adding, required reading for those trying to get inside Fred Phelps' head. Addicted to Hate Fred Phelps expose. Also, read the Wikipedia entries on his "church", Fred Phelps, and his children/followers. They have criminal histories, but with so many lawyers in the "clan" they have slid free from the grasp of Lady Justice time and time again. Not to mention that mysterious death of the beloved of one of Fred's sons... (It is thought by some that Daddy didn't like his son's choice for a wife, so did away with her.)
ETA: Despite the fact the ACLU has supported Fred Phelps in the past, I think they do more good, and that in the end Phelps will be given enough rope he will be left swaying in the breeze with no one to take up his cause. I believe in what the ACLU stands for, and will "forgive" them for supporting Phelps. (Mainly because I know it's just letting Phelps "take more rope".)
ETA: Despite the fact the ACLU has supported Fred Phelps in the past, I think they do more good, and that in the end Phelps will be given enough rope he will be left swaying in the breeze with no one to take up his cause. I believe in what the ACLU stands for, and will "forgive" them for supporting Phelps. (Mainly because I know it's just letting Phelps "take more rope".)
Marthatex
New Member
It looks like most of the massacres occur in warmer months - from April on. The Amish shooting was October 2nd.
I agree that lack of mental health care is more the problem than video game or other violence in our society per se; but I don't think it helps if you have an introverted child with a penchant for aggressive or violent behavior, or that seems to have emotional problems -guiding them away from violent video games and into sociobehavioral activities or therapies would be wise.
jilly
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I knew in my heart from the beginning that this family was grieving. I think the daughter has accurately described how they feel - "hopeless, helpless & lost". Imo they needed their daughter there to guide them. I understand they've received death threats and they may even lose their business because of this. Their life has been ruined and they have lost their son as well. They have been shamed.
I have known many Asian families and they are very private. They shun the spotlight, just want to work hard, be good citizens and have their children succeed and that brings me to my next point. I have personally observed some of the pressure these parents put on their kids to the point of emotional abuse. One teen, I knew, commit suicide.
Not saying that happened here but I think it's reasonable to assume that there may have been some of that in this family. Just saying this from my personal experiences. This is not to say there isn't some mental illness going on here as well.
As far as the video games, even though he didn't have any in his dorm doesn't mean he wasn't playing games which are available on the internet. We don't know yet what his computer history was.
NO ONE pointed to video games as the "root of all evil". what many people are saying (and, have been for a long time) is that these games are NOT HEALTHY FOR YOUR MENTAL STATE. *ESPECIALLY*... if you are already an angry, violent, anti-social male...!! it's no secret that for many of those young people, the fantasy world they are in becomes more important and more 'real' than the real world. it's about time these games are looked at.. and you better bet your life they are a factor in a lot of bad things happening today. however.... like with many things, there is much $money$ to be made off gaming... so nobody wants to mess with it.