Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[slowsleuthy]

Who said that Smich was sick? If that came from Smich, it is not credible due to the fact that his story does not match the evidence.

AM said he was sick, no?

 

[otto]

And that is where I have always viewed things. The only thing that set MS apart from others, is he was there.
SS and AM had very similar knowledge, (AM was actually arrested in the beginning for the murder), the only difference, they just weren't there. MOO

I get the impression that although Millard and Smich both enjoyed criminal activities, because Millard had money (from murdering his father) and Smich didn't, Smich should be excused for his part in the murder. Is that the view that some have with Smich?

 

[otto]

AM said he was sick, no?

I don't know. Is the story that they decided to abandon the plan to murder Igor because Smich was sick? Igor didn't mention anything about a sick man coming to test drive the vehicle.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Who said that Smich was sick? If that came from Smich, it is not credible due to the fact that his story does not match the evidence.

MS did say he was sick (hungover and shoulder problems) during his testimony, but he also sent text messages about being sick to DM which were introduced at the trial. And MM also testified that MS was sick on the day of the test drive with Igor. Not disagreeing with you ... Just wanted to point that out.


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[Londoneye]

AM testified that DM said MS was sick and thats why they didn't take the truck. He testified this was stated in MS presence. I believe this is the case, if I'm wrong someone please correct me.

 

[Miranda16]

Possible. But then the incinerator texts between DM and MS was a full year before in 2012.

I think that's a somewhat different situation but I'm not a lawyer. Evidence which ties directly to a weapon purchased for other murders seems to be inadmissible (the Iisho text which might have been due to timing), but evidence that MS was involved in incinerator selection relates to his role in preparing for a murder coverup in general. The incinerator was clearly central to the TB case, but the particular gun referred to in the Iisho text was not?

 

[canadiangirl]

Evidence relates to one gun. Speculation plays no part in a murder conviction.

If the passenger in the back seat pulled a gun, Igor may have used the passenger in the front seat as a shield.

Smich is either a rather unlucky fellow to be charged with not one, but two, murders, or he is a murderer with no respect for others or the law. Was the hope that Smich would be found guilty of manslaughter even though he participated in a carjacking and murder of a 32 year old family man? If so, why? Does he seem like a loser who looked up to Millard, and therefore he should not be responsible for his actions?

Speculation has played a huge part in a murder conviction. Because it's all we have. That and interpretation of premeditation.

As I said, I'm willing to change my opinion once the evidence on LB comes out.

And just to be clear, does MS loser status come into play because that is what the courts allowed to be seen? What we didn't see was DM was also a druggie loser if we're going there that has been attention seeking since he was a child eating dog biscuits in school. He is also a high school drop out, sold drugs, used them, used the hanger for a chop shop and suicide girls which is soft *advertiser censored* exploiting women. Except that wasn't allowed for the pretty boy millionaire persona.

 

[canadiangirl]

AM testified that DM said MS was sick and thats why they didn't take the truck. He testified this was stated in MS presence. I believe this is the case, if I'm wrong someone please correct me.

You are correct. AM did state this in testimony

 

[otto]

Speculation has played a huge part in a murder conviction. Because it's all we have. That and interpretation of premeditation.

As I said, I'm willing to change my opinion once the evidence on LB comes out.

And just to be clear, does MS loser status come into play because that is what the courts allowed to be seen? What we didn't see was DM was also a druggie loser if we're going there that has been attention seeking since he was a child eating dog biscuits in school. He is also a high school drop out, sold drugs, used them, used the hanger for a chop shop and suicide girls which is soft *advertiser censored* exploiting women. Except that wasn't allowed for the pretty boy millionaire persona.

We have the facts of the case to rely on, so we don't have to speculate. The facts of the case, as far I could gather from news reports, is that there was one gun. It doesn't really matter whether Smich and Millard were on equal footing financially. What matters is that they participated in criminal activities together, including the carjacking and murder of Tim Bosma, and they both participated in concealing their criminal activities.

Why should Millard, or Smich, be excused for their participation in the murder of Tim Bosma?

 

[Miranda16]

And that is how I have always viewed things. The only thing that set MS apart from others, is he was there.
SS and AM had very similar knowledge, (AM was actually arrested in the beginning for the murder), the only difference, they just weren't there. MOO

The fact that MS was there is sufficient to convict him. If one believes (as I do) that MS knew at the minimum that DM had a plan to steal and murder and had the tools to do so, then if he continued to go on missions with DM, he is guilty of M1.

If SS had driven the Yukon (the mythical 3rd person) and come to the hangar that night, he would also have been charged IMO.

 

[marymcd]

MS said that both he and DM did oxy the night before IT. The difference was that MS also drank which is apparently a bad combo.

You mentioned before that IT's truck had GPS according to MS. I hadn't heard that before but could have missed it.

Smich said IT told them his truck had GPS because they had asked him, but IT wasn't questioned about whether or not he had been asked when he was on the stand. So perhaps that was the deciding factor.

 

[canadiangirl]

We have the facts of the case to rely on, so we don't have to speculate. The facts of the case, as far I could gather from news reports, is that there was one gun. It doesn't really matter whether Smich and Millard were on equal footing financially. What matters is that they participated in criminal activities together, including the carjacking and murder of Tim Bosma, and they both participated in concealing their criminal activities.

Why should Millard, or Smich, be excused for their participation in the murder of Tim Bosma?

I don't feel they should be excused. Reasonable doubt doesn't mean that at all.

 

[MsSherlock]

Which one took a gun to a test drive? Has this been determined? Did the other know? All unanswered questions.

IMHO, these guys had MWJ on speed dial- DM had enough moola he could have had a gun for every designer holster he owned. What they had with them and how they used it is totally irrelevant now- truck loads of evidence has been sealed for a long time, never to be spoken about at this trial in front of this Jury, yet this Jury could still connect the dots between DM and MS to render their guilty verdicts. Heck, either DM or MS's story could be correct- I'm sure there's some truth in both of them, but what does it matter at this point- it'll be up to the appeals process.

Once again, I'm one of the ones who had a double take on MS's involvement. It wasn't until I took a very close look at the facts that I was finally able to see that MS had my sympathies because I viewed him as the underdog. After looking at everything thoroughly, I came to the conclusion that DM and MS were joined at the hip and were in this together. One of the big things was the absence of prints from MS. I'd suggest that he had gloves on and maybe that's why he had his hands in his pockets. If anything could have ruined it for the pair it would have been MS's prints on anything- between the two of them, those are the only prints that could have got them snagged. Even MS's phone dying??? I seriously doubt that and I seriously doubt that the Yukon didn't have a phone charger in it because DM was on the road so much. His phone didn't die. They thought they had it figured out and I think they almost did. IT remembered the tattoo- and that was just as good as fingerprints in identifying DM. MOO

 

[Miranda16]

We have the facts of the case to rely on, so we don't have to speculate. The facts of the case, as far I could gather from news reports, is that there was one gun. It doesn't really matter whether Smich and Millard were on equal footing financially. What matters is that they participated in criminal activities together, including the carjacking and murder of Tim Bosma, and they both participated in concealing their criminal activities.

Why should Millard, or Smich, be excused for their participation in the murder of Tim Bosma?

The overall scenario needs to be speculated based on the points of factual evidence (the scenario needs to connect the dots beyond a reasonable doubt). Paraphrasing Judge Goodman, very few scenarios can be proven with absolute certainty.

 

[canadiangirl]

IMHO, these guys had MWJ on speed dial- DM had enough moola he could have had a gun for every designer holster he owned. What they had with them and how they used it is totally irrelevant now- truck loads of evidence has been sealed for a long time, never to be spoken about at this trial in front of this Jury, yet this Jury could still connect the dots between DM and MS to render their guilty verdicts. Heck, either DM or MS's story could be correct- I'm sure there's some truth in both of them, but what does it matter at this point- it'll be up to the appeals process.

Once again, I'm one of the ones who had a double take on MS's involvement. It wasn't until I took a very close look at the facts that I was finally able to see that MS had my sympathies because I viewed him as the underdog. After looking at everything thoroughly, I came to the conclusion that DM and MS were joined at the hip and were in this together. One of the big things was the absence of prints from MS. I'd suggest that he had gloves on and maybe that's why he had his hands in his pockets. If anything could have ruined it for the pair it would have been MS's prints on anything- between the two of them, those are the only prints that could have got them snagged. Even MS's phone dying??? I seriously doubt that and I seriously doubt that the Yukon didn't have a phone charger in it because DM was on the road so much. His phone didn't die. They thought they had it figured out and I think they almost did. IT remembered the tattoo- and that was just as good as fingerprints in identifying DM. MOO

On my phone so I can't respond in full at the moment, however why would a guy who doesn't drive or own a vehicle have a car charger to plug in his phone? Not only that, DM had an iPhone and MS owned a blackberry and Samsung.

 

[marymcd]

Not a legal mind, but it is that evidence was admitted when it should have been suppressed. Smich's lyrics, written within 2 weeks of the murder, were admitted as evidence because they appear to be a statement about the murder. I would think that any statement about a murder, regardless of whether it is spoken or sung, is admissible.

That does sound logical. Another question, if the admissibility of evidence is argued with all lawyers present is it not then accepted by all as admissible evidence?

 

[marymcd]

This is exactly my point. Thank you.
I'm sorry but you can't unhear or unsee things.

Clearly if on this jury, you could put those references aside. Why do you think the members of this jury couldn't?

 

[saulgoodman]

Which one took a gun to a test drive? Has this been determined? Did the other know? All unanswered questions.

At the Bobcat property, why would MS in the Yukon pull up that close (inches away) to TB's truck?
As far as we were told to believe, by MS on the stand claimed he had not known TB had been shot yet.


How did MS know that TB would NOT be getting out of his truck and possibly see there was no “friend” in theYukon that went to Tim Horton's?
MS should not have known of any harm to TB up to that stop. Or did he know?

 

[otto]

I don't feel they should be excused. Reasonable doubt doesn't mean that at all.

Where is there reasonable doubt regarding their joint participation in the planning, and execution of a carjacking, murder, and concealment of the criminal activity?

 

[canadiangirl]

Clearly if on this jury, you could put those references aside. Why do you think the members of this jury couldn't?

Maybe they did put their references aside. But people aren't robots. If you're told for 4.5 months someone is a low life scum of the earth, I'm pretty certain your opinion of that person is formed and you've been biased. It only takes between 21-66 days to form a habit. How hard is it to break any habit? Certainly not 4.5 days. MOO