Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[XiolaBlueX]

Read the last few pages of this thread for just a few examples. Someone suggests MS was too scared to go to the police because of Iisho and another poster suggests that Iisho and the Boyz got to MM and made her change her testimony. Yet, a third poster says Iisho makes convicted murderer Mark Smich look like a choir boy.

Get back to me when Iisho's charged with murder.

I already read the last few pages, and no, I didn't see anyone say he is the biggest or scariest criminal ever. Nor does he need to be. Nor does he need to be charged or convicted of a murder to be a dangerous person who would retaliate against somebody. I guess you are suggesting ISHO (who evidently is the one with the access to weapons) is the one that should be afraid of MS?
Furthermore, Im not even sure if it's Isho or somebody else in his crew that is the one to be most afraid of.
I just know that there are many different reasons why MS rightly from his perspective and lifestyle would not want to rat out any of that group to LE. It's pretty much against any code, and it looks like it took almost 3 years to even talk on this case. IMO

 

[Georgeo]

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont Jun 17
I have never known a first degree murder conviction not to be appealed.

I think MS's appeal will be denied because he has no grounds.

The judge bent over backwards to ensure the trial was way more in the accused' favour by disallowing certain evidence. What grounds could he have? He is even more of a POSti appeal and drag this out again.

 

[DMB]

The judge bent over backwards to ensure the trial was way more in the accused' favour by disallowing certain evidence. What grounds could he have? He is even more of a POSti appeal and drag this out again.

Which accused???? DM, CN, MWJ or MS

 

[dar107]

That "some dude" you refer to is a guy with a first degree murder conviction and another first degree murder charge. Iisho has a gun trafficking conviction and another weapons charge.

Neither of these guys are warm and cuddly, as I've expressed many times. They're both dangerous. And I think the convicted murderer is more dangerous.

He quite possibly provided the means to the murder of 3 people....and that is through just ONE of his contacts. Who knows how many murders weapons he's sold, if he coached DM on the perfect head **** to look like suicide or if he is directly involved in things he has nit been caught for. I feel he is just as dangerous if not more.

 

[Georgeo]

My question to you though, is how do you know what evidence the jury used to make their decision? If they came out In Public one by one and stated they believed he was guilty because he helped searched for an incinerator, he took part in scoping trucks, they didn't believe his story about DM turning into a lunatic, they thought he lied about the gun, would that be enough to convince you that they actually maybe do believe he was guilty?
I get it, you are upset and disagree with the verdict because YOU weren't convinced. But the jury was. To start trying to find fault in the defense team or the way the jury ruled or how the judge handled the case is really grasping at straws.

Canadiangirl- didn't yiou say you would respect jury's verdict, regardless of what it was? Well, they gave spoken, and both 's are convicted murderers now. It is what it is. Judge was very lenient in dM and MS favour with disallowing tons of evidence, and jury STILL found them guilty of M1. JMO

 

[Claroon]

He quite possibly provided the means to the murder of 3 people....and that is through just ONE of his contacts. Who knows how many murders weapons he's sold, if he coached DM on the perfect head **** to look like suicide or if he is directly involved in things he has nit been caught for. I feel he is just as dangerous if not more.

Well I don't think there is a need to grade and compare criminals. What's the point?

 

[otto]

If their only intent was to murder they would have taken a person off the street (Laura). If their intent was to murder a person while stealing a truck they would have targeted and searched for a person with a more rural location such as TB. Was there any other searches on any of the computers with parameters outside the GTA??? If their intent was to murder why tell everyone???? MOO. I believe whole heartedly that DM is "one sick prick", and absolutely deserved Ist degree/Murder 1, however, I simply do not see nor believe MS signed up for what went down on May 6th. I feel that the fact that MS was tried alongside with DM hurt his own defence. Too much evidence has been held back in order to protect the integrity of future trials (LB, WM) and accused (DM, MWJ, CN). When all of the evidence is finally revealed after the final trial we all will be able to assess the reality of all the evidence against all the accused and aiders & abettors. When we finally get to see all 26,000 of Dm's text and hear all the evidence that isn't protected and it is obvious that MS knew and did much more then what has been provided so far I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I have grown up my entire life within a couple of miles of TB and am devastated and heartbroken by this senseless murder and want to see justice served and the right person pay for this horrendous crime. I am also painfully aware of the losses of other people such as MS's mother and family, MB and even the, the horrific CN and even MS. These people may not be considered anyone you would associate with, smoke pot, steal, etc but they have also lost so much and have had their lives destroyed as well all over an association with DM. Will crucifying them bring justice for TB & SB?

Yes. Imprisoning the two men (for a minimum of 25 years) who participated in the abduction, murder, and incineration of Tim Bosma does bring justice to society. The streets are safer, the community is safer, and people who want to sell vehicles on kijiji are safer. Millard and Smich made a decision to steal a truck rather than buy one. They decided to steal the truck after carjacking it, rather than taking a parked truck from the street, knowing that the only way to ensure they could increase the chance of getting away with it was to murder the owner of the vehicle. At any time, they could have stopped what they were doing, but they chose to see it through, including the detail of pre-purchasing an incinerator.

I have no idea how anyone could look at these two men and feel that they deserve anything better than the future that they defined for themselves, by themselves. They murdered a 32 year old married father of a 3 year old. Tim Bosma is the victim. Millard and Smich are the murderers.

 

[Ontario Mom]

You are having to reach and explain away every piece of evidence individually. If you were on a jury you would be instructed not to do this, but rather to look as the evidence as a whole.

I don't find it reasonable to say Marlena's embellishing, the guns mean nothing, nor does the memory loss, the BBQ was about bacon even though, it was the wrong week, etc.

One or two of those things might be reasonable, but when you go through a long list coming up with the type of explanation you've provided, then it's not IMO reasonable doubt. It's unreasonable doubt.

In any case, as someone else said, the jury has decided and they found him guilty.

I'm not sure why you're quoting that ruling either. Are you suggesting the judge didn't instruct the jury correctly on reasonable doubt? If so, where in your opinion did he err?

While I'm no longer among those who find reasonable doubt about MS's guilt, I can certainly understand why they do. The fact is, and logic dictates, the individual examples of testimony and evidence is what comprises the whole. If the individual items of testimony and evidence has reasonable doubt (can be ambiguous) then the whole isn't looking so hot.

 

[canadiangirl]

Canadiangirl- didn't yiou say you would respect jury's verdict, regardless of what it was? Well, they gave spoken, and both 's are convicted murderers now. It is what it is. Judge was very lenient in dM and MS favour with disallowing tons of evidence, and jury STILL found them guilty of M1. JMO

Respect and agree have two very different meanings.

 

[otto]

While I'm no longer among those who find reasonable doubt about MS's guilt, I can certainly understand why they do. The fact is, and logic dictates, the individual examples of testimony and evidence is what comprises the whole. If the individual items of testimony and evidence has reasonable doubt (can be ambiguous) then the whole isn't looking so hot.

“The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.”
― Aristotle

 

[canadiangirl]

Well I don't think there is a need to grade and compare criminals. What's the point?

Not sure, maybe ask ABro as she feels MS is more of a danger then isho if you follow the trail of messages back.

 

[ABro]

Not sure, maybe ask ABro as she feels MS is more of a danger then isho if you follow the trail of messages back.

The whole of the criminal code is pretty much devoted to grading and comparing criminals. Likewise the weeks of discussion that took place here over whether Smich deserved first degree or second.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

<modsnip>

The didn't know each other for 8 years. DM and MS met in 2008 when MS sold DM some drugs. They didn't have contact for a few years untill DM called MS for drugs again. That's when they became friends and like brothers over time. So MS only really knew DM for approximately 2 years, maybe less.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...k-smich-dellen-millard-murder-trial-1.3576641

 

[SnooperDuper]

There are big hints that MS is not a cuddly guy:

At one point in a voir dire of Michalski, Millard's lawyer Nadir Sachak said, "Mr. Smich sold crack," before Goodman abruptly stopped him.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-1.3631268

Crack is an ugly drug to get involved with. Your clients have little to no money, they smoke up any money they have immediately, and when they go into withdrawal they are willing to do do pretty much anything with no moral boundaries.

Of all the addictions on the street, people look down the most on those addicted to crack. Likewise, those who deal in it aren't respected, because they simply hang around the absolute wrong kind of people. Uncontrollable, untrustworthy, predatory people. Yet a crack dealer has to manage them somehow. They have to be tougher than a crack addict - and let me tell you that is some tough.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Ok, maybe this post will go through. I was replying in regards to MS knowing DM for 8 years. That post seems to have went "POOF" though.

Anyhow, to that OP. MS and DM did not know each other for 8 years. They first met in 2008 when someone gave DM MS's number for drugs. They didn't have contact for a couple of years then DM called MS for more drugs. They became close in this time and became like brothers. So in reality, they only knew each other for less then 2 years before they murdered TB, not 8 years.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...k-smich-dellen-millard-murder-trial-1.3576641

 

[Webulls]

If their only intent was to murder they would have taken a person off the street (Laura). If their intent was to murder a person while stealing a truck they would have targeted and searched for a person with a more rural location such as TB. Was there any other searches on any of the computers with parameters outside the GTA??? If their intent was to murder why tell everyone???? MOO. I believe whole heartedly that DM is "one sick prick", and absolutely deserved Ist degree/Murder 1, however, I simply do not see nor believe MS signed up for what went down on May 6th. I feel that the fact that MS was tried alongside with DM hurt his own defence. Too much evidence has been held back in order to protect the integrity of future trials (LB, WM) and accused (DM, MWJ, CN). When all of the evidence is finally revealed after the final trial we all will be able to assess the reality of all the evidence against all the accused and aiders & abettors. When we finally get to see all 26,000 of Dm's text and hear all the evidence that isn't protected and it is obvious that MS knew and did much more then what has been provided so far I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I have grown up my entire life within a couple of miles of TB and am devastated and heartbroken by this senseless murder and want to see justice served and the right person pay for this horrendous crime. I am also painfully aware of the losses of other people such as MS's mother and family, MB and even the, the horrific CN and even MS. These people may not be considered anyone you would associate with, smoke pot, steal, etc but they have also lost so much and have had their lives destroyed as well all over an association with DM. Will crucifying them bring justice for TB & SB?

Um...Yes.

 

[Sillybilly]

This is a post-verdict discussion thread where everyone's opinion on the verdict is welcome. Respectful discussion, whether agreeing or disagreeing with the verdict, is in order.

A reminder was previously issued that members are not to be labelled as "supporters, defenders, camp, fence-sitters". A post containing such a 'label" has been removed. Anyone using such terminology after this reminder will face a loss of posting privileges.

 

[canadiangirl]

There are big hints that MS is not a cuddly guy:



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-1.3631268

Crack is an ugly drug to get involved with. Your clients have little to no money, they smoke up any money they have immediately, and when they go into withdrawal they are willing to do do pretty much anything with no moral boundaries.

Of all the addictions on the street, people look down the most on those addicted to crack. Likewise, those who deal in it aren't respected, because they simply hang around the absolute wrong kind of people. Uncontrollable, untrustworthy, predatory people. Yet a crack dealer has to manage them somehow. They have to be tougher than a crack addict - and let me tell you that is some tough.

Also from that same article, DM sold and used cocaine.

Millard's friend*Michalski*provided a stark look into Millard's affinity for drugs —*both using them and selling them.
"Dell used heroin once. Cocaine, we all did it,"*

I wonder how Smich got the money to deal crack ? Considering he had none. Think he made it from Dell's coke?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I wonder how Smich got the money to deal crack ? Considering he had none. Think he made it from Dell's coke?

Maybe MS had his own connection with MWJ.

The thing is, it takes a special kind of person to come out on top of crack addicts.

 

[canadiangirl]

MS surprised folks with his clever testimony.

RSBM
Not in any way singling you out inspector, however as a retorical question, why did MS testimony and how he presented himself surprise so many people if there wasn't already a character bias in place after 4 months?