Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[matou]

I think MB is paying Greenspan. JMO

 

[Inspector_North]

I think MB is paying Greenspan. JMO

Why would you think that? She certainly didn't help DM by ignoring his instructions to destroy the letters. I don't think Rabbit is of the giving type unless there is a ROI, and that time has passed.

I would guess that the evidence and the fact that Smich was given first degree is a reason to put all effort and resources into the first go in November.

Mr. Greenspan was selected as the best option to minimize the impact of the evidence, IMO. I don't think she will be walking.

 

[cyber_sleuth]

Christina Noudga's trial is set to begin in November in Hamilton.

The woman who is charged as an accessory after the fact in Tim Bosma's murder has a new, extremely high profile legal team. Brian Greenspan's firm will take over Christina Noudga's case, her former legal counsel confirmed Tuesday morning.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...n-bieber-to-defend-christina-noudga-1.3696793

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6784469-bosma-dellen-millard-s-girlfriend-hires-celebrity-lawyer/

 

[matou]

Why would you think that? She certainly didn't help DM by ignoring his instructions to destroy the letters. I don't think Rabbit is of the giving type unless there is a ROI, and that time has passed.

I would guess that the evidence and the fact that Smich was given first degree is a reason to put all effort and resources into the first go in November.

Mr. Greenspan was selected as the best option to minimize the impact of the evidence, IMO. I don't think she will be walking.

I think MB is funding her defense because CN likely has info about MB r.e. destruction of evidence. JMO

 

[hopingforjustice]

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I can gather, MB and DM were requesting $75,000 from WM's estate (held by Millardair) go to MB to cover both DM and MB's legal fees. That request was approved.

JMO but I don't think this was a deserving judgement. DM deserves nothing from that estate until his innocence is cleared in the death. Also I would have to go so far as to say that MB's stake (if any) is in question as well as she hold's pertinent info on it due to the fact that she was on scene. Again..just my opinion.

 

[hopingforjustice]

Why would you think that? She certainly didn't help DM by ignoring his instructions to destroy the letters. I don't think Rabbit is of the giving type unless there is a ROI, and that time has passed.

I would guess that the evidence and the fact that Smich was given first degree is a reason to put all effort and resources into the first go in November.

Mr. Greenspan was selected as the best option to minimize the impact of the evidence, IMO. I don't think she will be walking.

I sure hope you are right. That is one hard little girl that does not deserve to walk.

 

[andreww]

IMO Greenspan took her case because it is high profile and winnable. This guy defends people like Justin Beiber and there is no way CN or her parents could afford him, so I'd guess that he came looking for her. There is a reason guys like Greenspan are so famous, because they keep their name in the news with high profile cases, paid or not, the live of the publicity.


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[andreww]

I sure hope you are right. That is one hard little girl that does not deserve to walk.

From her time on the stand in this trial it's pretty obvious that her intent is to play dumb. It is frustrating but also very hard to disprove. Unless Millard testifies against her, I think she'll walk, unless they have texts of her admitting knowledge of the crime. If they did, why not use that to impeach her testimony in this trial? Nothing says you can't use that evidence in both.


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[palisadesk]

IMO Greenspan took her case because it is high profile and winnable. This guy defends people like Justin Beiber and there is no way CN or her parents could afford him, so I'd guess that he came looking for her. There is a reason guys like Greenspan are so famous, because they keep their name in the news with high profile cases, paid or not, the live of the publicity.

Brian Greenspan has an outstanding reputation (among judges and fellow lawyers, not simply with the public), and has no need to boost his profile or seek out clients.

While the cases where he defends fairly ordinary middle class people don't make the headlines, he does take on such cases, on a different fee schedule than that reserved for the Muzzo and Bieber cases. (One example where he did an exemplary job exposing police incompetence and tunnel vision was his defense of Steve Murray in Goderich, charged with (and acquitted of) the murder of his daughter Mistie).

As for winnable -- no, he doesn't take on exclusively "winnable" cases. You need look no farther than into the recent Muzzo case. That was absolutely unwinnable from the get-go. What Greenspan could do, and did, was damage control. He engineered the guilty plea and public expressions of remorse by his client (which could well have been absolutely genuine; I have no reason to suppose they weren't -- but they were also good PR).

These moves likely shortened the sentence his client received, but also laid the groundwork for a positive view by the parole board in the future.

I don't for a nanosecond believe that CN has seen the error of her sneering, supercilious ways - but her parents probably have realized the urgent need for damage control. They may not have appreciated earlier the extent of the evidence against her and the negative impact her testimony engendered. They are both medical professionals, and while they have a "modest" home they may (for all we know) have investments or savings they can access for Greenspan's firm to represent CN. I don't see the need to posit MB or DM providing the funding without evidence of same.

Someone mentioned her Pinterest account seemed to be down. I would hazard a confident guess that one of the very first orders from her new lawyer was some variant of Get that girl OFF all social media NOW! I was also surprised that she had not been coached by her previous lawyer in how to present herself in court -- a more self-effacing and regretful persona would have served her cause much better.

It's possible her lawyer did try to do this, with no luck. Parents may have laid down the law now; we aren't privy to such details. But I expect someone, not necessarily CN, has appreciated the seriousness of the situation and escalated their response.

 

[Georgeo]

Brian Greenspan has an outstanding reputation (among judges and fellow lawyers, not simply with the public), and has no need to boost his profile or seek out clients.

While the cases where he defends fairly ordinary middle class people don't make the headlines, he does take on such cases, on a different fee schedule than that reserved for the Muzzo and Bieber cases. (One example where he did an exemplary job exposing police incompetence and tunnel vision was his defense of Steve Murray in Goderich, charged with (and acquitted of) the murder of his daughter Mistie).

As for winnable -- no, he doesn't take on exclusively "winnable" cases. You need look no farther than into the recent Muzzo case. That was absolutely unwinnable from the get-go. What Greenspan could do, and did, was damage control. He engineered the guilty plea and public expressions of remorse by his client (which could well have been absolutely genuine; I have no reason to suppose they weren't -- but they were also good PR).

These moves likely shortened the sentence his client received, but also laid the groundwork for a positive view by the parole board in the future.

I don't for a nanosecond believe that CN has seen the error of her sneering, supercilious ways - but her parents probably have realized the urgent need for damage control. They may not have appreciated earlier the extent of the evidence against her and the negative impact her testimony engendered. They are both medical professionals, and while they have a "modest" home they may (for all we know) have investments or savings they can access for Greenspan's firm to represent CN. I don't see the need to posit MB or DM providing the funding without evidence of same.

Someone mentioned her Pinterest account seemed to be down. I would hazard a confident guess that one of the very first orders from her new lawyer was some variant of Get that girl OFF all social media NOW! I was also surprised that she had not been coached by her previous lawyer in how to present herself in court -- a more self-effacing and regretful persona would have served her cause much better.

It's possible her lawyer did try to do this, with no luck. Parents may have laid down the law now; we aren't privy to such details. But I expect someone, not necessarily CN, has appreciated the seriousness of the situation and escalated their response.

Winnable? Why do you say that? CN hiring a lawyer like Greenspan shows her guilt and fear...

 

[andreww]

Brian Greenspan has an outstanding reputation (among judges and fellow lawyers, not simply with the public), and has no need to boost his profile or seek out clients.

While the cases where he defends fairly ordinary middle class people don't make the headlines, he does take on such cases, on a different fee schedule than that reserved for the Muzzo and Bieber cases. (One example where he did an exemplary job exposing police incompetence and tunnel vision was his defense of Steve Murray in Goderich, charged with (and acquitted of) the murder of his daughter Mistie).

As for winnable -- no, he doesn't take on exclusively "winnable" cases. You need look no farther than into the recent Muzzo case. That was absolutely unwinnable from the get-go. What Greenspan could do, and did, was damage control. He engineered the guilty plea and public expressions of remorse by his client (which could well have been absolutely genuine; I have no reason to suppose they weren't -- but they were also good PR).

These moves likely shortened the sentence his client received, but also laid the groundwork for a positive view by the parole board in the future.

I don't for a nanosecond believe that CN has seen the error of her sneering, supercilious ways - but her parents probably have realized the urgent need for damage control. They may not have appreciated earlier the extent of the evidence against her and the negative impact her testimony engendered. They are both medical professionals, and while they have a "modest" home they may (for all we know) have investments or savings they can access for Greenspan's firm to represent CN. I don't see the need to posit MB or DM providing the funding without evidence of same.

Someone mentioned her Pinterest account seemed to be down. I would hazard a confident guess that one of the very first orders from her new lawyer was some variant of Get that girl OFF all social media NOW! I was also surprised that she had not been coached by her previous lawyer in how to present herself in court -- a more self-effacing and regretful persona would have served her cause much better.

It's possible her lawyer did try to do this, with no luck. Parents may have laid down the law now; we aren't privy to such details. But I expect someone, not necessarily CN, has appreciated the seriousness of the situation and escalated their response.

CN is still on Instagram, going to rock festivals, nude beaches and weed marches, so Im not sure that has anything to do withe Greenspan. The average person does not know Eddie Greenspan for is individual successes, they know his high profile work. Thus when people get in trouble, Greenspan is the first person they think of. Its kind of like free advertising.

 

[andreww]

Winnable? Why do you say that? CN hiring a lawyer like Greenspan shows her guilt and fear...

You can think whatever you like about a person but unless you have actual evidence against them, you have nothing. In CN's case, we know she willingly helped Millard move the trailer, incinerator, and held on to the recorder. So what they need to prove is the:

- CN knew the truck was in the trailer
- CN knew what the incinerator was used for
- CN knew what was on the recorder.

IMO, unless Millard testifies, there is no way to prove she knew what was in the trailer when they moved it. Likewise, how do you prove that she knew anything about the incinerator? And if the DVR did hold the key to Millard's guilt, why wouldn't she dispose of it or destroy it? Keeping it in her closet is not what you would expect from someone trying to hinder a murder investigation. Now who knows what additional evidence the may have against her, but in all likelihood she would know about that, so lying in the Millard case would have done her no good. I think we all know she is guilty, but can she be found guilty strictly on gut instinct? I don't think so.

 

[palisadesk]

CN is still on Instagram, going to rock festivals, nude beaches and weed marches, so Im not sure that has anything to do withe Greenspan. The average person does not know Eddie Greenspan for is individual successes, they know his high profile work. Thus when people get in trouble, Greenspan is the first person they think of. Its kind of like free advertising.

You may be confusing Eddie Greenspan and Brian Greenspan. Both are (were, in Eddie's case - he has been deceased for a couple of years) very well respected criminal lawyers. They are brothers, but did not practice together, and had different styles -- Eddie sought the limelight and high-profile cases, Brian did much less of that, and was most known for his legal acumen and courtroom expertise sans theatrics of any sort. Both were very effective defense lawyers, and both did a lot of very quiet pro bono work as well. Eddie Greenspan was in the news far more than his brother (he represented Conrad Black, for example), He did more talking to the press and was in general a more public figure.

I am not sure that CN is on Instagram today. Her account does not come up (someone else mentioned her Pinterest account being inaccessible or absent). She was doing all those things you mention in recent weeks, but I'm guessing that if, as the news reports, her family has just recently retained Greenspan's firm, this may have ceased. Time will tell.

 

[palisadesk]

You can think whatever you like about a person but unless you have actual evidence against them, you have nothing. In CN's case, we know she willingly helped Millard move the trailer, incinerator, and held on to the recorder. So what they need to prove is the:

- CN knew the truck was in the trailer
- CN knew what the incinerator was used for
- CN knew what was on the recorder.
.

The main thing that needs to be proven is that CN knew that DM had committed a murder when she assisted him.

I share your worry that there may be significant difficulty in proving what she knew. On the other hand, we have no information on what evidence the Crown has against her. It must be fairly significant - she did spend several months in jail, her bail conditions have been fairly stringent, and whether or not she takes it seriously, it appears someone does, as evidenced by the scaling up of her legal representation.

I'm not confident she will do hard time, but I sincerely hope she does. As Dungey summed up (he was paraphrasing one of the letters), "You and DM deserve each other." Truer words were never spoken. They are birds of a feather. Yuk.

 

[Sillybilly]

Madeleine and Dellen

http://www.zeifmans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Order-June-16-2016-2.pdf

http://www.zeifmans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Endorsement-June-16-2016-2.pdf


For those who are interested.

Am thinking that the stay of proceedings in this matter was related to freezing DM’s assets?

Azeff and De Caria are the two lawyers representing the applicant MB. You can check out their bios here under the link to “Lawyers” at the bottom of the Fogler Rubinoff page.

 

[marymcd]

I'm not sure anyone on the face of the earth could undo the damage she did to herself on the stand. CN's behaviour was both remarkable and unforgettable. I also feel she is a loose cannon that no one can control, not her lawyer or her parents. From her antics on the stand, it appears to me that she has no perception or concern whatsoever of how the world views her. I would interpret any positive change in her behaviour at her own trial to have been coached and well rehearsed and a false reflection of her true character, which she seemed exceedingly proud of in my opinion.

I know of a few extremely wealthy people that live very modestly, so it would not surprise me that her parents would be able to easily cover her legal fees, but it would not surprise me either if MB was chipping in. Maybe that was what her note meant re: making a profit from her boyfriend's criminal activities in a round about way. That wouldn't surprise me either. Actually, at this point, the only thing that would surprise me is if she skipped bail and managed to get out of the country. On the other hand, maybe that wouldn't surprise me either.

All MOO

 

[Velma]

Am thinking that the stay of proceedings in this matter was related to freezing DM’s assets?

Azeff and De Caria are the two lawyers representing the applicant MB. You can check out their bios here under the link to “Lawyers” at the bottom of the Fogler Rubinoff page.

Good call, I had missed that.

 

[palisadesk]

I'm not sure anyone on the face of the earth could undo the damage she did to herself on the stand. CN's behaviour was both remarkable and unforgettable. I also feel she is a loose cannon that no one can control, not her lawyer or her parents. From her antics on the stand, it appears to me that she has no perception or concern whatsoever of how the world views her.

I was thinking the exact same thing - that CN has some kind of disorder in social perception, where she completely misreads how her behaviour is perceived by others. Of course, she may not care either - but it's possible that she genuinely thinks others are as impressed with her as she thinks they should be. That would fit with a narcissistic personality coupled with an overconfident egotism.

That's the way she comes across; without actually interacting with her, I don't really know. But the inappropriateness of her courtroom behaviour was so outre, one could hardly help thinking, What's with this young woman that she doesn't get how much trouble she may be in?

There's some loose synapses there for sure.

 

[matou]

Seaenn (CN) is still on Instagram and it is public.

 

[matou]

Her trial is judge only so she won't need to change her manner for a jury.