Verdict Watch Discussion Thread

[Dutchman]

So reporters are on jury watch. Do they hang out at the courthouse the entire time? How does that work?

 

[DMB]

I also think it's not clear if there were still two guns by May 2013. Probably won't be clear on this point until the WM trial if that goes ahead. But surely there would have been a deeper inquiry if someone like WM died with an illegal handgun on the scene? It seems it would make much more sense had it been a hunting rifle. Won't be clear for a while. Wonder if the results of the WM prelim will be held back until the LB trial?

If there were two guns out there and one of them was NOT involved in either of the two other cases, LB & WM we would have been shown the pictures of both the guns and there would have been so much more evidence produced instead of just eluding to two guns and MS being the owner of one.

 

[Kamille]

I also think it's not clear if there were still two guns by May 2013. Probably won't be clear on this point until the WM trial if that goes ahead. But surely there would have been a deeper inquiry if someone like WM died with an illegal handgun on the scene? It seems it would make much more sense had it been a hunting rifle. Won't be clear for a while. Wonder if the results of the WM prelim will be held back until the LB trial?

When a rich man dies of an apparent suicide with an illegal handgun, I'd imagine it would not be questioned at all if family is quick to accept the fact that there was no foul play and that their loved might be distraught enough to do such a thing.

He certainly had the funds to buy himself an illegal gun "on the street". And the family name probably allowed for a lot of "looking the other way" from the officers in attendance. No need to add undue stress to the "grieving family" and embarrass them with the possibility of the information going public. They took the situation at face value and did not investigate.. Unfortunately, WM had no one asking LE the right questions on his behalf.

MOO

 

[cckp72]

So reporters are on jury watch. Do they hang out at the courthouse the entire time? How does that work?

SC tweeted that they work, chat and watch movies every day until 8:30 at the courthouse waiting.

 

[Abitcountry]

They are going to need 2 days and an arborist to figure out all those trees before they can even start to deliberate!!!

Funny line.....and we're going to need the same to understand what they did.
Thanks for the good laugh....sounds like something that would come out of the DeepWoods..:guitar:

 

[palisadesk]

After the uncle testified there was an article published in one of the MSM links (can't recall which, but there were several that mentioned his testimony) and I got the distinct impression that his uncle couldn't stand him even before May 6, 2013. I don't remember how old DM was when he stayed with his uncle and his family for a while but it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn his uncle discovered something rotten about DM's character even then.

I read those articles too and got the same impression as you. IIRC, RB claimed he offered to take DM in (I inferred it was likely at MB's request), thinking to provide him with some stability and a normal happy family life. He probably did not have any particular hostility to DM at the time -- remember how DM's flight instructor (or one of them) described DM as a bright, sweet-natured, personable kid? When he chose he could present himself well.

RB took him in from around ages 14-16 or 15-17, I don't recall exactly but that's close. We know that he was struggling in school at that time (dropped out multiple times), it appeared he didn't have real friends, but he did become close to some of his cousins - one in particular, a girl much younger than himself (notice a pattern here?), and we don't know what other problems DM may have been exhibiting that led MB to want someone to intervene. Perhaps she/they had sought professional help, we have no information whatever. But most parents with the means do seek help; whether they seek effective help, or do it wisely, is a separate issue. It's very unlikely that DM did not display worrisome signs early on, if not in childhood, then at puberty and beyond.

My speculation is only that, of course. But if DM had some behavioural issues (I'm the one who theorized about the possibility of FAS, but that can't be proven one way or another, though the parallels are striking) these might not have become evident immediately, but rather gradually, over time. RB had 5 children; he would have recognized abnormal behaviour and symptoms, maybe more readily than DM's own parents, who had no other child to compare him to. We know from DM's letters that this cousin (RB's daughter) was important to him, and RB may have grown increasingly concerned over DM's influence on her. The antipathy that was evident in court preceded DM's known criminal career by a considerable length of time, IMO, and probably was rooted in RB's own observations and interactions over the period where DM lived with his family. It's harder to keep up a mask when you live with people than when you charm intermittently. The mask slips from time to time. I think of the famous Oscar Wilde novel, the Portrait of Dorian Gray. A scary but prescient book.

 

[canadiangirl]

From http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-1.3631268

"As well, Millard didn't solely write letters to his then girlfriend, Christina Nouga. He also wrote letters to his mechanic, Shane Schlatman, and in doing so, breached a second court order to not contact someone. Those letters were mostly centred on Schlatman caring for Millard's cars, court heard."

How was this determined? Did SS hand over the letters, or he just told LE that they were about car care? I am not a fan of SS and don't trust him.

MOO

But somehow he got away with no charges.....

 

[JuneBug67]

If there were two guns out there and one of them was NOT involved in either of the two other cases, LB & WM we would have been shown the pictures of both the guns and there would have been so much more evidence produced instead of just eluding to two guns and MS being the owner of one.

Certainly very possible. Otherwise, why redact gun B and show the Walther? Given that they didn't have the actual weapon that would seem arbitrary unless they had some reason to make one specifically relevant and one not. Could we maybe conclude that the other gun was an apparent match for the one recovered at WM's? Or perhaps it was just because they could tie the Walther to both accused through photographic evidence and it made a better case? It's not like the defence is going to try to argue in a second gun..

 

[Abitcountry]

Those dreaded hoses. Lol. Stiff drinks for all. Oh wait verdict in already? (Wishful thinking)

I'd like all the 'surprises' to be rolled out gradually....we may be here for a few days.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Not a ton on MS there. I suspect the bullet on his facebook was just something he found online.

One thing I do disagree with is why if bad character evidence is constantly disallowed why is 'good' character evidence allowed like MS taking class in jail and all of that. It has even less to do with the crime than this bad stuff that gets thrown out. I agree that the bad character stuff that has nothing to do with this crime should be tossed, but that good character stuff shouldn't have been allowed either as it just leads to sympathy for MS.

 

[lauriej]

Jenkers News (ENG) ‏@jenkers_en [video=twitter;742471128132784128]https://twitter.com/jenkers_en/status/742471128132784128[/video] Jury begins deliberation in murder trial in death of #Hamilton's Tim #Bosma http://jenke.rs/q5Y3Dx

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

I'm surprised AC is the only article out so far.. Anyone else come across any additional info yet?

All of the traditional newspapers way behind on getting stories out. These should have been ready to go live on the web as soon as the jury was sent off, but newspapers are still years late on this online stuff.

 

[Abitcountry]

On an unrelated note, I wonder if there is a judge who never had this desire to take his or her gavel and make a schnitzel out of the accused.

Das is funny:gavel:

 

[JuneBug67]

Jenkers News (ENG) ‏@jenkers_en [video=twitter;742471128132784128]https://twitter.com/jenkers_en/status/742471128132784128[/video] Jury begins deliberation in murder trial in death of #Hamilton's Tim #Bosma http://jenke.rs/q5Y3Dx

MS's monitor is see-through and DM's is not. Mistrial!

 

[Abitcountry]

Something would be very weird if they deemed it a suicide and didn't retrieve the gun.

MOO

The humour on the new thread is killing me :hilarious: Yes it would be weird indeed. Thanks for the chuckles.

 

[Arnie M]

Any clue as to why DM s texts about she'll be a dirty girl (gun) reference would not be included as evidence? Pretty clear intent, iMo?

(My guess) is because the message was 1 year 3 months before the Bosma murder so lawyers likely argued it should not be allowed

 

[flipflop]

Now we know what happened to the gun

According to MWJ's Instagram, after MWJ was incarcurated, his friends have been letting people know why he is currently behind bars and why. Made me think earlier on that LE knew where the gun was. I believe that DMs followers got the gun back into the hands of MWJ and no one was letting on that they handled or knew anything about the murder weapon. They were all told to turn the blame on MS. jMO

 

[cckp72]

I guess there will be breaking news alerts when the jury comes back? I suspect it will be tomorrow by end of day or Wednesday morning before noon. The wait is awful for us - I can't imagine the anxiousness the Bosma's are feeling now.

 

[JuneBug67]

I read those articles too and got the same impression as you. IIRC, RB claimed he offered to take DM in (I inferred it was likely at MB's request), thinking to provide him with some stability and a normal happy family life. He probably did not have any particular hostility to DM at the time -- remember how DM's flight instructor (or one of them) described DM as a bright, sweet-natured, personable kid? When he chose he could present himself well.

RB took him in from around ages 14-16 or 15-17, I don't recall exactly but that's close. We know that he was struggling in school at that time (dropped out multiple times), it appeared he didn't have real friends, but he did become close to some of his cousins - one in particular, a girl much younger than himself (notice a pattern here?), and we don't know what other problems DM may have been exhibiting that led MB to want someone to intervene. Perhaps she/they had sought professional help, we have no information whatever. But most parents with the means do seek help; whether they seek effective help, or do it wisely, is a separate issue. It's very unlikely that DM did not display worrisome signs early on, if not in childhood, then at puberty and beyond.

My speculation is only that, of course. But if DM had some behavioural issues (I'm the one who theorized about the possibility of FAS, but that can't be proven one way or another, though the parallels are striking) these might not have become evident immediately, but rather gradually, over time. RB had 5 children; he would have recognized abnormal behaviour and symptoms, maybe more readily than DM's own parents, who had no other child to compare him to. We know from DM's letters that this cousin (RB's daughter) was important to him, and RB may have grown increasingly concerned over DM's influence on her. The antipathy that was evident in court preceded DM's known criminal career by a considerable length of time, IMO, and probably was rooted in RB's own observations and interactions over the period where DM lived with his family. It's harder to keep up a mask when you live with people than when you charm intermittently. The mask slips from time to time. I think of the famous Oscar Wilde novel, the Portrait of Dorian Gray. A scary but prescient book.

Small thing, but I always found the dog biscuit anecdote oddly...chilling? That's too strong a word, but it's in that neighbourhood. More than a few kids probably nibbled on dog treats in their lives but walking down the hallway at school with a box of them doesn't seem sad in the way it otherwise might. I always thought there was something aggressive about it. An aggressive strangeness that was designed to make people feel uncomfortable, or at least offered that as a pleasant bonus.

 

[Abitcountry]

Thanks. This is in line with what I've always perceived to be a difference in experiencing and expressing normal emotions between these two. DM seems to be a raging cluster B of some kind. Or, perhaps as was interestingly suggested, an FAS baby.

Some shorten forms can be challenging.....I looked up FAS...fetal alcohol syndrome. I have to say that that thought had occured to me in the past few months fegarding DM.
I thought I could figure out the B without google.....Bitc* didn't work.
And then I remember the expression 'cluster *advertiser censored** was popular for a time but why wouldn't you have just written cluster F.
Turns out that cluster B is a designation for ' cluster of mental disorders'...but what is the B stand for. Who knew???