Verdict Watch Discussion Thread

[Lexiintoronto]

the jury I was on was for 2 defendants, it took us 3 days of deliberation. Speaking for myself....it takes quite a while to wrap your head around the fact that someone will actually murder someone..in my case, their own friend. Then I wanted a reason for why they did everything...which of course there was not always a known reason. Then you deal with all the things they did wrong...in our case, bragged to friends about the murder...who would do that? Eventually you get whittled down to the point where there is nothing left to argue, that they may be innocent. Don't forget that when the defendant has family, you feel for them, and how the verdict will affect everyone, not just the accused. It is very emotional. In my case, most of us had tears in our eyes when the verdicts were read...first degree for two young guys. I have often thought back to that trial, and the process of coming up with a verdict, and spending so much time together, even such a sharing a motel room while sequestered. It is quite the process, and one that I that I came to respect, but a lot of pressure to sort it out and come up with a verdict. I don't think I have yet to forget the many points I heard at this trial, and it was 20 years ago..

I can't imagine what a difficult task that must be - all of the pressure. And sharing a room? I'd crack. You did a great service in doing your duty as a juror.

What happened on the first day of deliberations? How did you choose a foreperson? And how did you proceed? The judge gave this jury a decision tree model - how did you organize all of the data?

 

[Claroon]

Are there still court staff, who record every word manually, or have they been replaced by audio recordings ? I should think they would need a paper backup in case of equipment failure IMO

Can't speak for this one, but a hearing I was at there was both a court reporter on her machine and a microphone.

 

[canadiangirl]

Can't speak for this one, but a hearing I was at there was both a court reporter on her machine and a microphone.

I've answered this question but to be clear there are different types of court reporters. Both stenography and voice equipment would likely be at a trial like this one.
A court reporter sets up the audio equipment, they then transcribe it from the audio recording when the day is completed so the courts have the actual transcription plus audio tapes.
They also use a mask to speak into as well. (likely similar to the microphone idea) - this is to drown out any background noise, coughing, sneezing etc
There would likely also be a stenography machine. This is a 21 or 22 key machine that is like shorthand. It is not like a laptop or anything else. A court reporter needs to have a very high accuracy and I believe it was
250 wpm?? It is a specific machine and most freelance reporters own their own.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Jurors eventually read a few stanzas of Smich’s violent rap lyrics and saw one snippet of a video of Smich freestyling.

It was jarring and garish, replete with violence, anti-police sentiment and profanity. But it was among the mildest in his catalog, jurors weren’t told.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/zombie-bullets-and-killing-games-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-in-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial

Ugh. Thank goodness we didn't have to listen to any more of his art.

But, we finally hear about Smich's violation of the no contact order with MM while in jail.

There was information, never explored in court, that Smich also reached out from jail. Someone called Meneses from behind bars asking her questions, apparently at the request of Smich. During the conversation, which lasted 10 to 15 minutes, the man knew details that only Smich would have known, she told police.

The case in the death of Babcock, 23, is set to begin early next year.

This is the third date I've heard recently for LB's case. One said this November, one said November 2017, and now this one says early next year.

 

[Kamille]

Knowing DM's eccentric personality, the "Spanish Girl" was likely a Llama firearm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llama_firearms

MOO

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/zombie-bullets-and-killing-games-what-the-jury-didnt-hear-in-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial

Ugh. Thank goodness we didn't have to listen to any more of his art.

But, we finally hear about Smich's violation of the no contact order with MM while in jail.





This is the third date I've heard recently for LB's case. One said this November, one said November 2017, and now this one says early next year.

It is confusing. I know that Noudga's trial is scheduled for Nov. 14, 2016. For the longest time we heard that the Laura Babcock trial would be in early 2017, but Susan Clairmont said LB's trial would be in late 2017.

I thought perhaps we would have heard by now what the judge's decision was regarding DM's preliminary hearing regarding WM, as a part of the "what the jury doesn't know", now that the jury has gone into deliberation, but that hasn't come out yet either. So we don't know even an approx. date for that possible trial, depending on the judge's decision.

And I also don't believe that MWJ's trial date has been set.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Claroon]

"

I'd be surprised if this one took more than 5 days, although because there are two accused, and a lot of evidence, it's possible."

If you want to take a down to earth view, it shouldn't take any time at all for the jury to decide.
In the beginning Dellen bought a machine to dispose of bodies.
In the end he used it.
In the beginning Mark helped him buy a machine to dispose of bodies.
In the end, he helped Dellen use it.

.................................... Done.

Only start it with ol' McDellen had a farm

 

[Claroon]

Hiding the shiv was just a mission. I think he will have lots of missions in prison. In fact, prison might be a good sandbox for his desire for missions.

Lol good one.

 

[Claroon]

You had to share a room?! After spending all damn day with these people you have to go back and potentially listen to one of them snore all night? I would go insane.

Susan Clairmont said these jurors get their own rooms. I wouldn't sleep with a virtual stranger I've known for 4 months.

 

[swedie]

It is confusing. I know that Noudga's trial is scheduled for Nov. 14, 2016. For the longest time we heard that the Laura Babcock trial would be in early 2017, but Susan Clairmont said LB's trial would be in late 2017.

I thought perhaps we would have heard by now what the judge's decision was regarding DM's preliminary hearing regarding WM, as a part of the "what the jury doesn't know", now that the jury has gone into deliberation, but that hasn't come out yet either. So we don't know even an approx. date for that possible trial, depending on the judge's decision.

And I also don't believe that MWJ's trial date has been set.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And I could have sworn I read something put out in the past couple days which said LB's trial is scheduled for February 2017. Perhaps nothing has been set in stone yet because those trials hinge on the verdict in this trial? Plea deals, change of plea from one or both of the accused? We will just have to sit tight and wait and see. MOO.

 

[Oreck]

Also kept out of evidence was a text message the lawyers believed was a reference to drugs from Millard to gun/drug dealer Iisho that said: I'm good for that date with that Spanish girl.

That Sun site link I posted up said, the gun was the "Spanish girl". Funny how each reporter tells the story. Now we'll have to Sleuth the reporters reports lol

http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/2016...cuseds-theory-in-tim-bosma-murder-trial-judge
Millard texted Iisho that he, :would be bringing her back a dirty girl,” meaning he would be using the deadly weapon, which he also called his “Spanish girl.”

I see this reporter also removed the "9mm" as the gun and replaced with "deadly weapon".

I had a cheap little chrome 380 that was made in Spain by Basq. Might be what he had.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Smith & Wesson manufacture the Bodyguard .380 that was supposedly redacted in the evidence photo ... not sure how that relates to "Spanish Girl" in the texts .... must have had a coded meaning between MS & DM

As far as Isho giving a "dirty gun" a "clean print" most likely refers to modifying it after use .... every firing pin has its own signature where it strikes the primer in the brass casing and under a magnifying glass police can compare it to other spent shells .... simply a matter of replacing or modifying , or altering it with a file etc so that it does not produce the same marks

Same as the sides of the brass casing , each gun will produce unique marks and scratches when bullets are chambered and ejected .... same as the rifling (spiral grooves) in the barrel , police can study the bullets under a microscope to see if they match suspect guns .... using tools , files , or abrasives will alter those parts of a gun so that it makes different marks on the shells. Professional gun owners would never do that because it causes some damage but crooks dont care

Another thing that surprises me is why the crown (police) did not give some examples why the .380 shell only "appeared" in the back of the truck some time later. Most likely the shell landed on the back seat , and if MS was sitting there the cushion would have been compressed enough for it to roll into the crack in the seat and be hidden until later when the seat was flipped up and it could roll onto the floor.

Just like the pens and coins that every car has stuck in the seats and you never see them unless you dig them out or if it is a folding seat they fall out when it is hinged upward.

 

[canadiangirl]

Susan Clairmont said these jurors get their own rooms. I wouldn't sleep with a virtual stranger I've known for 4 months.

Haha people sleep together knowing each other much less in 2016.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Haha people sleep together knowing each other much less in 2016.

Now THAT was funny. LOL

 

[andreww]

Susan Clairmont said these jurors get their own rooms. I wouldn't sleep with a virtual stranger I've known for 4 months.

I highly doubt any juror would ever have to share a room. The idea of being sequestered includes keeping the jury from discussing the case outside of the deliberation room. Jurors are kept isolated outside of that room with the exception of meals and such when they are accompanied by guards.

Maybe in smaller towns where accommodations might be limited?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[redwing7225]

The gun the jury saw was a Walther PPK, believed to be the murder weapon. The gun that was cropped out was a Bodyguard .380.

When Smich took the stand, he confirmed — in the absence of the jury — that there was more than one gun belonging to him and Millard.

"There's multiple firearms of different calibers," he said.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...by-20-more-things-the-bosma-jury-was-never-t/

IIRC, one of the reporters tweeted that once it was said in court that the casing was found in the backseat, DM gave MS a hasty stare down.
Perhaps there was 2 guns on that mission, MS cleaned up the truck, found the casing to his gun and neglected to find DM's casing.
Since only one casing found, the Crown couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that 2 guns were involved.
MOO

 

[andreww]

I have no doubt the gun was a set up and MS was surprised to receive it. MOO

Then how do you explain Smich's comment about "the drugs and the other thing"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

but yet he testified in front of the jury that he did not own a gun. hmmm

I know right! Judge disallows evidence and then sits and watches the defendant lie about it? Don't seem right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tealgrove]

MOO

I just don't believe that MS was surprised to receive the gun. In fact I think he fully expected to receive as it appears that the arrangement was that it was to be returned. Somebody had to deal with it and as soon as DM was arrested and everyone went into panic mode MS was the only guy left to deal with it. He needed to get it back to Isho (or else?). In fact, I would think it was extremely important to MS to receive the gun. It was way better to have it in his possession and deal with it's disposal than to let it be out there in no man's land and have someone turn it in.

Remember that 50 minute meeting between DM and MS in which MS can't remember anything about it? I think DM told him at that point everything he was doing to cover up the crime and what he was putting into place and what MS was to do with "things" if he got arrested.

I'm not buying that it was a surprise to have the gun dumped on him. Not buying it for a second.

MOO

 

[leafs_fan93]

but yet he testified in front of the jury that he did not own a gun. hmmm

I'm reading it as he said there was more than one gun, but not necessarily that he owned one. I'm not sure he would have had the cash to buy one. I M O it's more likely that DM was the owner of both