Verdict Watch Thread Saturday July 13

[RR0004]

History, RR0004.. Research Rodney King LA, CA 1992
1992 Los Angeles riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I live in GA, and the backlash/repercussions began here over 10 days ago, imo. Originally reported by MSM as a hit & run, but the truth was only reported in ms media a couple of days ago.....
'Be safe folks'..

'Originally reported as a Hit & Run, but the driver of the vehicle called 911'..The victim was left on the roadway unconscious, to later be ran over by a car.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/22742395/cobb-police-arrest-3-in-mableton-fatal
4 teens charged in death of Mableton man

Authorities said Chellew did not know his attackers. A friend of Chellew said that the two had gone to a gas station when several men jumped Chellew.

"They started punching him. They starting beating on him," said the woman, who asked not to be identified.

Arrest warrants said that the Chellew attempted to escape his attackers by backing into Mableton Parkway. Chellew was then knocked down onto the roadway, where he was struck by the vehicle.

Posted: Jul 02, 2013 10:51 AM EDT.
Updated: Jul 09, 2013 10:51 AM EDT.
By MYFOXATLANTA STAFF

Ya know, I've heard reference to RK...and IIRC that was on HLN. I think it may have been VP (oh, and I hope it wasn't) who said that Trayvon's mother could be the next Rodney King?? Speaking of calm or something like that? Huh?? IMVHO, this case is nothing like the case of RK.

ETA: and I know all about riots. My father worked in Harlem back in the 60s. Now you reference the 90s. Haven't we evolved beyond that? Very sad, indeed.

 

[lisasalinger]

My husband can't wait for this to be over so he can have me back.. He keeps coming in, is it over yet? Nope, not yet... :fence:

Lol. I think we all have loved ones in our life that just simply do not understand our obsession with this stuff. At times, Websleuths is more of a support group than anything else

 

[Marigold]

I'm not sure what your question is but all guns produce recoil when fired.

It's my personal opinion and apparently the state in this case, that the 9mm handgun did not cause GZ to suffer a broken nose when he fired it. MOO.

Sorry I am so confusing, that's why I lurk 10x more than post. I guess what I am wondering is... even if there was recoil on the pistol, weren't there far too many things going on to prevent the gun from ever hitting George's nose?

 

[m00c0w]

The medical expert said he was hit on the right side of his nose, with a one handed grip, you have zero way of knowing if that barrel turned n ANY way or only 2” or 5" hit the nose. You have no way to determine where, how hard, or what injuries exactly would be caused or where exactly he fired from. You know and I know NO ONE would be stupid enough to recreate or try to to prove it's not possible the recoil caused his injuries. Because it's possible and probable.

But you do know because the weapon did not fail to cycle. You seem to ignore that. If the gun was being flailed around, it would not have cycled. Is it possible he nicked himself with the slide? Absolutely. Is it possible that the force of the recoil broke his nose and made him slam his head into the ground? Not unless Newtonian physics doesn't apply anymore.

:twocents:

 

[JusticeJunkie]

just changes the grounds for reversal imo. Hornsby agrees that it was error if I heard him correctly. He also thinks the tox was relevant from the perspective of verifying George's description on the NEN call. jmo

Also heard that the judge's ruling on circumstantial evidence in the jury instruction is reversible error. Here's the part I found when I looked it up.


11:25 a.m.

West says it would be an improper argument for the state to make in closing.


Judge Nelson denies the motion.


She moves on to more of the jury instructions.


She moves on to the circumstantial evidence instruction from the defense.


The state has an objection.


Mantei says the instruction was eliminated 30 years ago, finding the instruction was confusing and incorrect.


West says he remembers when the instruction was standard. He says when a case is appropriate for it, it is clear the law allows it.


He says in voire dire, De la Rionda made a big deal about circumstantial evidence and direct evidence with the potential jurors.


He says the circumstances must be conclusive.


He says there is no other instruction as specific and appropriate to help the jury analyze the case. He says it gives them desperately needed guidance.


Mantei says every case with a bit of circumstantial evidence would get the instruction.


He says the case is not totally circumstantial and there is direct evidence the defendant shot and killed the victim.


“It is confusing and incorrect,” Mantei says.


Judge Nelson is not going to give the circumstantial evidence instruction


---------------
What is your opinion, Karmedy?


IMO

 

[Sweet Fox]

I believe this will be a hung jury...

It’s a shame that Trayvon die but that tragedy should not be compounded by sending GZ to prison. I hope he’s found innocent but I too think it’s going to ended in a hung jury.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Yes there are news reports of possible violence in Florida depending upon the verdict. I'm hearing it and I don't live in FL.

That's all we're hearing about in Florida http://www.gainesville.com/article/...-local-events-will-call-for-peaceful-dialogue Two local events to me.

 

[Karmady]

I have no problem with him saying whatever he thinks is right. But why continue to work for the State if he felt that strongly? Why not resign and go public? I have no respect for him at all.

IMO

The same reason women who are sexually harrassed in the workplace don't have to resign and go public. It's their employers' behavior that needs to change, not theirs. jmo

 

[logicalgirl]

I saw that too.. I've always wondered how he shot TM, how he was able to get his gun out of his holster so fast.. That walk through doesn't look right to me when he's describing how he shot TM. It's like he stopped TM's arm with is arm, pulled out his gun and shot.. I think TM wasn't leaning that far over him when he got shot. I have always thought that GZ didn't need to shoot that there was a small window like when TM saw the gun, and I believe he did. Also, GZ could have said to TM that he had a gun and would use it if he didn't stop. I'M SO CONFUSED.. LOL

Thank you for that. My question is - why shoot him in the heart? Why not the arm? The shoulder? You only shoot someone in the chest if you mean to kill them.

He had the gun. Trayvon wasn't armed. If he was - he surely would have used his gun when he was "above GM on the ground". So what exactly was GZ afraid of now he could see he was fighting a boy?

Oh right - deadly force. When he had the gun...

IMO

 

[PaperDoll]

I don't think he had murder in his heart,but I do think he went in with the thought that he had his gun if TM gave him any trouble and that may be why he was so quick to reach for his weapon.
I also watched his face when the very first pics of a deceased TM were shown.He looked at the picture and then looked away and (IMO) his expression was a 'so *advertiser censored***** what' and "pfft' as though TM didn't matter at all.
Between that and his comments during the SH interview,I'm convinced he has no remorse at all.
Many might say they wouldn't either,but even if killing is justified,wouldn't you feel at least a small amount of sorrow for the loss of life?
IMO

I so agree with your post. I don't think he regrets it at all, in fact he's going out of his was to make himself look like a hero???? maybe to strong of a word there but, yeah, I see no remorse at all. He still views TM as a "a$$hole, f..king punk" IMO. This all happened because of GZ not the other way around.

I get the fact he's a Neighborwatch guy, but please, call if you actually see someone breaking into a house, not just casually walking in the rain, looking around, blah blah blah... Do you think GZ would have liked it if someone called NE on him because he, too, was in the rain, and that makes a person suspicious, holding something in his hand just walking about?

 

[cinsbythesea]

It is too bad that George Zimmerman's involvement in getting justice for a black homeless man beaten up by the then Sanford Police Chief's son was not widely publicized. Anything pro GZ in the media isn't widely reported.
Interestingly enough, the current Judge Nelson was also the judge in the previous case.
http://www.nejamelaw.com/rick-jancha-in-the-news/cops-son-gets-probation.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/trayvon_george_and_the_homeless_man.html
From article:
Upset at the lack of media attention, Zimmerman and his wife Shellie printed fliers demanding that the community "hold accountable" officers responsible for any misconduct.

They then drove the fliers around to area churches and passed them out on a Sunday morning. Later, at a public meeting in January 2011, Zimmerman took the floor and said, "I would just like to state that the law is written in black and white. It should not and cannot be enforced in the gray for those that are in the thin blue line."

This meeting was recorded on video. As a result of the publicity, Police Chief Brian Tooley, whom Zimmerman blasted for his "illegal cover-up and corruption," was forced to resign.

Ironically, perhaps, Zimmerman headlined his fliers with a famous quote from Anglo-Irish statesman Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." He would have been better off quoting another Anglo-Irishman, Oscar Wilde: "No good deed goes unpunished."

<modsnip>


.....................
No good deed goes unpunished. Indeed.

Wow. I had heard and read nothing about this- thank you for posting it. This just makes my heart even sadder for Zimmerman. Thanks again for a little bit more enlightenment as to who George Zimmerman really is.

 

[JeannaT]

I'm still asking the question - when the police were called to the scene right after TM was murdered - why didn't the police canvas the complex to see if TM was a resident or a guest there? Why did they accept the word of GZ that TM was a intent on burglary?


IMO

I don't think that's the way it's usually done. I can't imagine going door to door, asking if anyone is missing a young black male family member - you'd have people insisting on looking at the deceased right there in the complex, and it would create havoc.

When there is a murder and no neighbors immediately come out during the chaos and appear to know the deceased, I don't think police usually go through the neighborhood asking whose missing someone.

It seems usually when remains are found, the police pretty much wait for someone to be reported missing. Often, of course, word of mouth flies throughout a neighborhood and it's immediately known who the deceased is.

These people basically hid behind their closed doors - and it doesn't seem the few people who did venture out knew him.

 

[Zuri]

Did the State decide to use the Aggravated Assault with child abuse or some such thing because they knew that would be objected to and therefore not considered? I was very confused by that. Could someone help me understand? TIA

 

[RR0004]

I saw that too.. I've always wondered how he shot TM, how he was able to get his gun out of his holster so fast.. That walk through doesn't look right to me when he's describing how he shot TM. It's like he stopped TM's arm with is arm, pulled out his gun and shot.. I think TM wasn't leaning that far over him when he got shot. I have always thought that GZ didn't need to shoot that there was a small window like when TM saw the gun, and I believe he did. Also, GZ could have said to TM that he had a gun and would use it if he didn't stop. I'M SO CONFUSED.. LOL

Someone mentioned yesterday...and to be honest, I never even considered it...that the entire incident could have been premeditated. She wrote it out as if it was scripted...and it made sense. Shocked me because I never even thought of that.

 

[Mahouston69]

In my medical opinion, the cut on GZ nose is consistent with being punched in the nose. It is a small cut and on the nasal bones. The nose is mainly cartilage. I don't know a lot about recoil, but it does not make sense to me that the injury would be recoil as GZ face would have been at the level of TM stomach. It would make sense medically that GZ fired from his side. The cut is just so small. However anything is possible. IMO.

ETA: I showed the pics to my doctor husband. In his professional opinion, it looked like a cut from the force of a knuckle or a fingernail. He knows zero about this case and I only showed him the pics. :seeya:

I believed just as you and your husband that he punched him in self defense after seeing the weapon. Then there is no DNA on George from Trayvon an no George under Trayvon's fingernails. It didn't wash away or they wouldn't have been able to get touch DNA from George either. Trayvon did not hit George in my opinion, so what did?

 

[m00c0w]

Thank you for that. My question is - why shoot him in the heart? Why not the arm? The shoulder? You only shoot someone in the chest if you mean to kill them.

He had the gun. Trayvon wasn't armed. If he was - he surely would have used his gun when he was "above GM on the ground". So what exactly was GZ afraid of now he could see he was fighting a boy?

Oh right - deadly force. When he had the gun...

IMO

Because he was using deadly force.

Imagine he shot him in the arm deliberately, and Martin lived.

Now we are at an attempted murder trial. The prosecution asks, "If you were in fear of your life, why did you take the time to aim at a non-vital part of the body that probably wouldn't have ended the threat?"

He also may have missed and wound up hitting one of the many people peering out from their porches. That's just not something you do when employing deadly force. That's why it's only allowed when in fear of life or great bodily harm.

:twocents:

 

[Sweet Fox]

FYI wftv poll yesterday had 75% thronging it would be a NG verdict, same as CA for conviction.

I saw quite a few polls running 71-90% for a NG verdict.

 

[Beyond Belief]

All this drama HLN is spitting out is sickening. Something really ought to done abt media that gets out of line. imo

 

[iluvmua]

When I first hears about this case, I though some guy just shot a young teen for no reason, he must be a hot head where even the slightest thing sets him off etc. but as more and more evidence came to light i began to change my tune.

JMO

 

[logicalgirl]

The same reason women who are sexually harrassed in the workplace don't have to resign and go public. It's their employers' behavior that needs to change, not theirs. jmo

Hey I'm Canadian - we know all of that about rights and act on it. Would or did I stay with an employer who was sexually harassing me?

No I didn't I had better things to do with my life than work for people I had no respect for.

IMO